Boonoo Boonoo River, New South Wales Superthread

[Axver]

Oh no, poor Tasman! Cruel lost forward there.

 

[coolian2]

Sigh. Can't argue with how good Canterbury are.

Pricks

 

[Axver]

Tired of them dominating the NPC, that's for sure. Almost as bad as when Auckland dominated the NPC of my childhood.

But that was one hell of an exciting game. A few less handling errors and Tasman could have given the Cantabs a right scare.

 

[coolian2]

Banks not playing like he'd never played rugby at all and it would have been closer!

 

[Axver]

Right, so, politics.

I always got the impression that the notion that leftists 'support' Putin was mostly constructed through think pieces by liberal-leaning (and I suppose conservative too), and without a grounding in reality. There do exist sections of the left who 'back' Putin in an ill advised 'anti-imperialist' manner, but never really on an ideological level - and those tend to support Assad using the same reasoning (and oddly sticking up their nose at genuine leftist movements in the region). There's a tendency I've noticed among liberal media (see the Daily Beast, for instance, essentially the Irvines of the media pundit world) that relishes red baiting and pushes a 'reds under the bed' Cold War mentality in regards to Russia.

I despise it immensely.

I must be honest, I thought you were fairly Putin-leaning, and some of your posts on FYM certainly give the impression of being more cynical of the West than of Russia. I consider the current Russian regime to be a fairly serious threat to left-wing goals and global security, in no small part because of its permanent seat on the UN Security Council. I do not trust Putin as far as I could throw him, and it's worrisome the way Russia is drifting into such drab authoritarianism. New Zealand was famously described in the early twentieth century as "socialism without doctrines"; to appropriate that, I feel Russia is now "authoritarianism without doctrines".

I was thinking about this too. I think that aside from the 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' reflex - as if Anglo/American objectives in the world are not corrupt when they aren't incoherent - there is maybe a wariness in some quarters about buying into the whole kit and kaboodle.

Once you embrace Putin's Russia as The Big Bad - as opposed to a, middling to largeish, bad - you're halfway to endorsing the next shooting war. And it's not as though the US and its allies have clean hands here, tearing up the Gorbachev-era assurances and actively seeking to expand NATO as far as they can push it. I don't trust anything I read in the 'quality press', not anymore, not at face value anyway

Of course some do go to the opposite extreme, vis a vis Putin and Assad, and some fall right down the rabbit hole altogether (The Guardian's obscure bete noire 'Off Guardian', springs to mind). Some of that doesn't come from any identifiable left perspective.

I must admit I have no idea where the narrative of "Hillary wants war with Russia" came from. Nobody's stupid enough to want a US vs Russia showdown. Well, OK, the lunatics on the far-right would love to fight Putin, or at least would've until they discovered they love Trump and - by extension - all strongmen. Even if there is an escalation in tensions, shit right now isn't even close to Cold War levels and the worst I can imagine is a proxy war in Syria/Iraq.

Though the interesting hypothetical is what China would do in the event of a US vs Russia war, assuming they have enough time to make a decision before somebody thinks nukes are a great idea.

I have so many opinions on this matter, it would take me days to get through. Another thing, I'm not sure liberal media want to recognise just how common Putin's brand of national-conservatism is across Europe - not in the paranoid sense of 'he's fuelling these governments!!!' but that this is so widespread at the moment. You look at the Polish and Ukrainian regimes, and I'm stunned just how much they mirror Russia whilst being so firmly opposed to them.

This is a good point. Holy shit the current Polish government is proper nuts.

 

[Axver]

Banks not playing like he'd never played rugby at all and it would have been closer!

That was a fucking shame.

And now I really understand why Jordie Barrett will join the All Blacks touring party. Wonder if we'll have three Barretts playing together for New Zealand before long? I always thought it was a shame we only got two of the three Brooke brothers at international level.

(Zinzan Brooke will forever be my favourite number eight.)

 

[Axver]

Huh, just skipping through Wikipedia and I had absolutely no idea that cricketer Chris Harris is not only related to the Brooke brothers, but has Zinzan as his middle name!

 

[coolian2]

I feel like I knew his middle name, I certainly remember C Z Harris, never knew the link!

He was always Harry to me

 

[Axver]

I can't believe this fact somehow eluded me. He was always a favourite of mine.

And fun fact: the silly action-adventure novel I wrote as a kid had a lead character called Zinzan.

 

[Kieran McConville]

I must admit I have no idea where the narrative of "Hillary wants war with Russia" came from. Nobody's stupid enough to want a US vs Russia showdown. Well, OK, the lunatics on the far-right would love to fight Putin, or at least would've until they discovered they love Trump and - by extension - all strongmen. Even if there is an escalation in tensions, shit right now isn't even close to Cold War levels and the worst I can imagine is a proxy war in Syria/Iraq.

I don't know if Hillary (read: US foreign policy establishment) wants war with Russia, but not much would have to go wrong in the next year or two for US planes to find themselves shooting down Russian planes in Syria.

 

[coolian2]

I can't believe this fact somehow eluded me. He was always a favourite of mine.

And fun fact: the silly action-adventure novel I wrote as a kid had a lead character called Zinzan.

Can't believe I've never checked his Wikipedia page before!

 

[Axver]

I don't know if Hillary (read: US foreign policy establishment) wants war with Russia, but not much would have to go wrong in the next year or two for US planes to find themselves shooting down Russian planes in Syria.

No, but we managed to avoid the Cold War getting hot on multiple occasions that are much more tense than now. Hopefully the institutional memory of how to step back from the brink remains. I at least believe the US government is a smidgen more competent on this front than the current Australian one, which would accidentally declare war on Somalia if it were sufficiently provoked by Assad.

 

[Axver]

Just noticed we started this thread over four months ago and we're not even halfway.

Oh Interference what has become of you.

 

[coolian2]

To be fair I really had to postwhore to kill the last one

 

[Vlad n U 2]

I must be honest, I thought you were fairly Putin-leaning, and some of your posts on FYM certainly give the impression of being more cynical of the West than of Russia. I consider the current Russian regime to be a fairly serious threat to left-wing goals and global security, in no small part because of its permanent seat on the UN Security Council. I do not trust Putin as far as I could throw him, and it's worrisome the way Russia is drifting into such drab authoritarianism. New Zealand was famously described in the early twentieth century as "socialism without doctrines"; to appropriate that, I feel Russia is now "authoritarianism without doctrines".

I've never really been 'Putin-leaning', but I'd like to think I have a better grasp of him than many media pundits and understand why he has the support he does (with the understanding that evoking patriotism in war time boosts approval ratings, and his weren't great as recently as 2011/12 - and heck, if it worked for fucking Yeltsin in Chechnya it can work for anyone!).

I still very much see him as a continuation of Yeltsin but with a much more 'respectable' image for the masses. And of course leftists are a threat to him, is it hard to understand why Udaltsov is still locked up whilst Navalny isn't now?

This is a good point. Holy shit the current Polish government is proper nuts.

Without even going into the ridiculous power the Catholic church has there, the fact that the ruling party keep on peddling the conspiracy theory that Russia somehow downed Lech Kaczynski's plane near Smolensk is baffling. That they backed a film released this year on this topic is incredible.

Add to that, like Hungary and Ukraine, there is barely any semblance of a left remaining there.

 

[Axver]

I've never really been 'Putin-leaning', but I'd like to think I have a better grasp of him than many media pundits and understand why he has the support he does (with the understanding that evoking patriotism in war time boosts approval ratings, and his weren't great as recently as 2011/12 - and heck, if it worked for fucking Yeltsin in Chechnya it can work for anyone!).

I still very much see him as a continuation of Yeltsin but with a much more 'respectable' image for the masses. And of course leftists are a threat to him, is it hard to understand why Udaltsov is still locked up whilst Navalny isn't now?

I still remember when Putin came to power and he was seen to be this exciting, youthful, possibly even reformist, leader. In hindsight it's a little hard to understand why. But geez I remember 13 year old me thinking he came across as way more charismatic than Yeltsin, and we were still in the delusion that an age of global peace was dawning.

Without even going into the ridiculous power the Catholic church has there, the fact that the ruling party keep on peddling the conspiracy theory that Russia somehow downed Lech Kaczynski's plane near Smolensk is baffling. That they backed a film released this year on this topic is incredible.

Add to that, like Hungary and Ukraine, there is barely any semblance of a left remaining there.

Hahaha, part of me wants to see this film. Oh Poland, you keep continuing that crazy history of yours. Let's not even start on Hungary.

What's your take on Ukraine at the moment? I admit I've completely taken my eye off the ball there.

And as for Syria I have fuck-all idea what to even make of it any more. Omnishambles of the greatest proportions.

 

[Axver]

To be fair I really had to postwhore to kill the last one

I still fart around on the Internet way too much so I have no real excuse.

 

[coolian2]

I still fart around on the Internet way too much so I have no real excuse.

That's me again!

At least, once I've unpacked fully.

 

[Axver]

That's me again!

At least, once I've unpacked fully.

Unpacking is overrated. Live out of boxes.

If something's still in a box in a decade, possibly question whether you still need it.

Keep it anyway.

 

[coolian2]

Lol I want to settle down here. I'll feel more comfortable with less boxes. Hell, I had to buy a bed!

 

[Axver]

Yeah I've actually unpacked fairly quickly after all my moves. But oh god I used to be shocking after travelling. Would live out of my suitcase for a good couple of weeks after getting home. Surprised I no longer do it.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

I still remember when Putin came to power and he was seen to be this exciting, youthful, possibly even reformist, leader. In hindsight it's a little hard to understand why. But geez I remember 13 year old me thinking he came across as way more charismatic than Yeltsin, and we were still in the delusion that an age of global peace was dawning.

I was too young to remember properly but my understanding is that Putin was well liked by the Western media - the very types who write cartoonish think pieces on him now!

I think that further adds to my point. He was 'alright' for them until he went out of line of what they wanted from a post-transition Russia.

Hahaha, part of me wants to see this film. Oh Poland, you keep continuing that crazy history of yours. Let's not even start on Hungary.

What's your take on Ukraine at the moment? I admit I've completely taken my eye off the ball there.

And as for Syria I have fuck-all idea what to even make of it any more. Omnishambles of the greatest proportions.

Reading G.M. Tamas on Hungary is so worthwhile yet so depressing. Sounds like such a far gone country, unfortunately.

I'm honestly not sure I've been paying enough attention to Ukraine? It's just the same lunacy as ever. There are no positives around.

 

[coolian2]

Yeah I've actually unpacked fairly quickly after all my moves. But oh god I used to be shocking after travelling. Would live out of my suitcase for a good couple of weeks after getting home. Surprised I no longer do it.

I'm not bad at unpacking but I need a few furniture items before I can complete it all. Plus I'm holding a good amount of stuff for my dad that can stay in boxes.

With you on unpacking after travel! So bad.

 

[Axver]

Most people after a good few glasses of wine probably just reach for chips or something as a snack, but my father raised me well. Hello cheese and crackers.

 

[coolian2]

Most people after a good few glasses of wine probably just reach for chips or something as a snack, but my father raised me well. Hello cheese and crackers.

I didn't think anyone had any other choice!

 

[Axver]

I was too young to remember properly but my understanding is that Putin was well liked by the Western media - the very types who write cartoonish think pieces on him now!

I think that further adds to my point. He was 'alright' for them until he went out of line of what they wanted from a post-transition Russia.

Pretty sure my first serious introduction to Putin was a very positive piece in Time magazine, to which I then subscribed, being a precocious teenage wanker.

Frankly I think many were duped by what I mentioned before, the whole illusion that global peace was just over the horizon. When you now look back on the nineties it's almost hard to believe that was ever a popular idea - the decade of the Gulf War, Chechnya, Rwanda, Bosnia, rapidly expanding neoliberalism, etc.

That whole nineties attitude towards the world now just looks like a bad joke.

 

[Axver]

I didn't think anyone had any other choice!

I must admit I was sort of tempted to wander across the road and get some beer and chips.

But I already have wine, cheese, and crackers. Laziness wins.

 

[coolian2]

I must admit I was sort of tempted to wander across the road and get some beer and chips.

But I already have wine, cheese, and crackers. Laziness wins.

That's the best way to roll!

 

[Axver]

I suppose it's time for more wine.

But this white is disappointing me. Guess I'll move onto the red.

 

[coolian2]

Wish I could work out how long my sleeping pills take to kick in. I'm forcing myself to delay taking one tonight just so I don't wake up at 5am.

Maybe try in about 10 minutes, since there's a 1 hour TV show about to start I want to watch.