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Old 10-11-2002, 11:11 AM   #16
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don't worry, i knew you're weren't looking for sympathy. when i read and see what's going on there, i can't imagine living in the middle of it. i mean it when i say that NI is in my prayers - which includes you. just because some countries are worse off doesn't make what's going on there irrelevant. it's good that you remind people of what's going there because it's important.

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Old 10-11-2002, 11:28 AM   #17
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speaking of which, I believe there is a bomb-scare in Lisburn now.......and there was one the other mornin Newtownards Rd.

They just love to fuk around with the public and police and army....esp as half can be hoaxes.
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Old 10-13-2002, 12:11 AM   #18
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Rolling Stone said its a "must-see"

Make sure you stay in your seat after the film and listen to a familiar song during the credits....
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Old 10-15-2002, 07:00 AM   #19
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I saw it on the weekend here in Melbourne.

It is quite gripping and is sort of filmed in "documentary style" with the camera moving from James Nesbitt's character (Ivan Cooper) to the British army, to a young man in the civil rights march etc. I agree the camera work is "bumpy" at times, but it is supposed to be realistic and bring you right to where the "action" is happening and this adds to the effect.

I went to Derry myself last year and visited the "Bloody Sunday" museum. From this I had already formed some opinions on things from the evidence I had seen. I don't know how accurately the actual events are portrayed by the movie, but if it is fairly accurate, the British Army has so much to answer for. Seeing this movie has also improved my understanding of the motivations of the IRA a hell of a lot more. The injustice that the movie demonstrates is so disturbing and makes you extremely and overwhelmingly angry throughout.

It is also quite graphic in parts, showing non-violent demonstraters being shot dead by the British Army. It is quite upsetting and distressing at times - I must admit to some tears whilst watching.

An excellent movie about a horrible event. Not a movie to go to see to "enjoy" as such - I believe it is a film worth seeing for anyone wanting to try to gain a better understanding of the "troubles". James Nesbitt's performance is sensational. It is strange to see him in a role of this type - I'm used to seeing him in his comedic role as Adam in "Cold Feet".
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Old 10-15-2002, 07:08 AM   #20
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dont forget that not everything or scene in it is absolutely correct.......



I know someone who says the catholics really blew this one up....spent thousands on taking the BA to court.

according to this other person.....the IRA and all other catholics blow things out of proportion, want everyone on their side, and will do anything to get it out there in the public eye for support against all things British and Loyalist.....

basically sayin Loyalists have no say, when they are attacked.
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Old 10-16-2002, 10:19 AM   #21
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I realise that when watching the movie, you need to be able to keep an open mind. I wasn't there when it happened and only know things I have seen in Derry or read about it. I really don't know how accurate an account of events it is.

I guess that the main theme is that it is a movie showing injustice and basic denial of civil rights - unfortunately a theme that could apply to many parts of the world.
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Old 10-16-2002, 11:09 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by mad1


I know someone who says the catholics really blew this one up....spent thousands on taking the BA to court.

according to this other person.....the IRA and all other catholics blow things out of proportion, want everyone on their side, and will do anything to get it out there in the public eye for support against all things British and Loyalist.....

basically sayin Loyalists have no say, when they are attacked.
Re taking them to the court, the enquiry is going on just now, I'll quote a newsreport on it for anyone whos interested.
Got to disagree with the 2nd part of your past but everyones entitled to their own opinion

Quote:
15:52 16Oct2002 RTRS-Bloody Sunday soldiers "wanted some kills"

By Pete Harrison
LONDON, Oct 16 (Reuters) - A British ex-paratrooper told an official inquiry on Wednesday that his platoon "wanted some kills" when they confronted unarmed rioters on Northern Ireland's "Bloody Sunday", during which 14 were shot dead.
The inquiry, which has been running since 1998, is seeking to determine how British troops killed the 14 at a march in the Northern Irish city of Londonderry, helping trigger 30 years of sectarian violence in the British province.
The paratrooper, a former radio operator identified only as Soldier 027, was the first to appear at hearings which have been moved to London because British troops said they feared for their lives if they testified in Northern Ireland.
He described fellow soldiers involved in "shocking and unspeakable incidents."
He saw another soldier "pushing his way between two other soldiers who were firing so that he could commence firing himself. He indicated to me that he thought what was happening was great," he added. "He was exuberant."
Soldier 027, who testified from behind a screen, is seen as a key witness because he contradicts the British army's official version of events, which is that the soldiers of the First Parachute Regiment only fired when fired at themselves.
He stood by an earlier statement that a lieutenant, referred to as 119, had briefed them on the night before Bloody Sunday, saying: "Let's teach these buggers a lesson -- we want some kills tomorrow."
Bloody Sunday -- January 30, 1972 -- was one of the grimmest milestones in the Northern Ireland conflict between majority Protestants committed to links with Britain and minority Roman Catholics in favour of Irish unity.
It set the stage for three decades of conflict which claimed more than 3,600 lives until a peace deal was signed in 1998 and ushered in a power-sharing local government.
NO THREAT
The inquiry, chaired by British judge Lord Saville, opened 26 years after the original probe in 1972 exonerated the paratroopers who opened fire on the protesters. But Soldier 027 said that at no time did he identify a threat within the mob.
"I was as keen to find a target as anyone, but I just could not identify a target that appeared to justify engaging," he said. "I did not see anyone with a weapon or see or hear an explosive device.
"I have a clear memory of consciously thinking 'What are they firing at?' and feeling some inadequacy."
Soldier 027 described a culture of violence among the paratroopers and said bravado rather than self-defence had fuelled their actions on Bloody Sunday
"I had the distinct impression that this was a case of some soldiers realising this was an opportunity to fire their weapon and they didn't want to miss the chance," he said, adding that much of the firing was precipitated by two soldiers, Lance Corporal F and Soldier G.
"When the shooting started, the crowd at first appeared to be mesmerised," Soldier 027 went on. "Suddenly there was a lot of confusion, wailing and commotion. I saw people crouching and immobile, others crawling.
"I have always been satisfied in my own mind that Lance Corporal F and Soldier G probably shot eight or 10 people that day."
The costs of the inquiry have soared and could top 20 million pounds ($30 million) by the time Saville issues his final report in 2004. The tribunal has already heard 582 witnesses.
((Pete Harrison, London newsroom +44 207 542 5706,
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Old 10-16-2002, 11:38 AM   #23
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Big Grin

To be honest Mastro, that comment was from someone else, not me sweetie...I have no fuking interest in what happens here.....Im not a sider......even though I live close to loyalist areas................

I dont pay attention to it on the news. Its enough to shock me how the attacks are.........

and 90% are youths, 11-18.............again thats all they know........yet sometimes, it feels like they've been 'ordered' to be that way by the parents....naturally........

If Id been brought up like them......Id be a nasty shite tearin the streets joinin in.....I can only thank my parents Im not........or that Im not involved with pple who are like that where I have to join in........





but there always rage, esp when the Catholics pushed most Prods out of Ormeau.....and Garvaghy.................


it was said, they are pushing us out..........
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Old 10-16-2002, 11:46 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by mad1
To be honest Mastro, that comment was from someone else, not me sweetie...I have no fuking interest in what happens here.....Im not a sider......even though I live close to loyalist areas................

I dont pay attention to it on the news. Its enough to shock me how the attacks are.........

and 90% are youths, 11-18.............again thats all they know........yet sometimes, it feels like they've been 'ordered' to be that way by the parents....naturally........

If Id been brought up like them......Id be a nasty shite tearin the streets joinin in.....I can only thank my parents Im not........or that Im not involved with pple who are like that where I have to join in........





but there always rage, esp when the Catholics pushed most Prods out of Ormeau.....and Garvaghy.................


it was said, they are pushing us out..........
Yeah i know what you mean, i didn't mean it to come across as having ago, i'd be lying if i said i didn't side (lost family in the "troubles") so that sort of makes my mind up (right or wrongly).

I've got to agree with the the youths, too many people brainwashed not having a clue what they're doing.

The youths over here (Scotland) are terrible (obviously not like N.I though) just árseholes running about shouting for the "IRA" or UDA when in reality they don't know anything about Ireland.

Sad state of affairs all round...
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Old 10-16-2002, 11:51 AM   #25
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I quite like the Scottish, esp the young boys in kilts!

We have some Scottish bands that play here on the 12th, but I just watch the bands from TV........

I remember asking me mum why there were Scots playin and she said because they support the Prod side, and love us............ ................I was like 'oh thats nice! '


Its good to see, but I guess I look at it on more 'warm pally' situation, than if its politically involved........

I dunno but.....Im so dumb when it comes to politics.............
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Old 10-16-2002, 12:45 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by mad1
I quite like the Scottish, esp the young boys in kilts!

We have some Scottish bands that play here on the 12th, but I just watch the bands from TV........

I remember asking me mum why there were Scots playin and she said because they support the Prod side, and love us............ ................I was like 'oh thats nice! '


Its good to see, but I guess I look at it on more 'warm pally' situation, than if its politically involved........
Aye, that;s the easiest and best way to look at it
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Old 10-16-2002, 09:02 PM   #27
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Bloody Sunday soldier's horror at killings

Rosie Cowan, Ireland correspondent
Thursday October 17, 2002
The Guardian

A former paratrooper yesterday claimed his comrades carried out "unspeakable acts" with "no justification" when they shot dead 13 unarmed men 30 years ago on Bloody Sunday.
Identified only as Soldier 027, he took the witness stand yesterday at Methodist Central Hall, Westminster, where he gave his testimony, hidden from view behind a curtain, just a few feet away from 20 of those injured and bereaved in the aftermath of a civil rights march.

Soldier 027, a 19-year-old radio operator with 1 Para on Bloody Sunday, was the first soldier who witnessed events in the Bogside to appear at the inquiry. He did not fire his weapon that day but stood beside other soldiers who did.

In a soft, halting, well-spoken voice, he replied to many of the questions that he could no longer remember the details. But in his written statement, he painted a vivid picture of the excited, adrenalin-pumped Paras, the terrified crowd, none of whom was armed as far as he could see, the blood and the bodies falling on the ground.

He believed two soldiers in particular were responsible for triggering the shooting, and that between them they killed eight or 10 people. He did not see any civilians with guns or bombs and said there was no justification for a single shot he saw any soldier fire. But he claimed statements he gave to Royal Military Police and a lawyer for Lord Widgery's 1972 tribunal were altered to show the army in a more favourable light. 027 was not called to give oral evidence to Widgery, who exonerated the soldiers and cast aspersions on the dead.

The Ministry of Defence won its legal battle for about 300 soldiers to testify in London because they thought their lives would be under threat from terrorists if they returned to Derry, where the inquiry has been sitting for the past two years. But 027, who left the army in 1974, is in a Northern Ireland Office witness protection scheme due to the risk to his safety from his former colleagues, who will give dramatically different accounts when they testify, saying they came under fire from gunmen and bombers on Bloody Sunday.

While most of the soldiers are anonymous, only two others will also be screened, but for different reasons from 027.

The soldier's graphic account of the terrible carnage he alleged he saw his colleagues inflict in the Bogside on January 30 1972, only came to light after he wrote an anonymous letter to a Belfast newspaper on the 25th anniversary of the killings.

Military commanders and other soldiers hotly contested his version but it was pivotal in persuading Tony Blair to order a fresh investigation into one of the most emotive events in the history of Northern Ireland.

In his statement, 027 described the pride and loyalty he felt when he joined the Parachute regiment at 19 in 1971, and the surreal and violent atmosphere he found in his first posting to Belfast.

"There was an element of enjoying the violence of the situation," he admitted. "We were all, to various degrees, brutalised by it." He had very little understanding of the political situation, but was well versed in the fear and tension felt by the young soldiers. He told of the casual brutality among members of 1 Para, whom he described as the army's "Rottweiler", taking out pent-up frustrations on anyone who happened to cross their path.

He said the night before he and his comrades went to Derry to police the civil rights march, he attended an informal briefing where there was talk of "getting kills". The soldiers were convinced they were about to face IRA gunmen and there was a gung-ho atmosphere as the order came to move in.

He told of his horror and confusion when Lance Corporal F kneeled in front of him and opened fire on the crowd, and as other soldiers joined in.

"Two people towards the centre of the barricade fell within seconds of each other in the opening burst of fire," he said. "I did not see anyone with a weapon or see or hear an explosive device. I have a clear memory of consciously thinking 'what are they firing at?' and feeling some inadequacy. What was I not seeing that I ought to be seeing."

He described the excitement of the soldiers who did fire.

"One chap, a full corporal whose name I cannot recall, ran up beside me pushing between two other soldiers who were firing, so that he could commence firing himself. He indicated to me that he thought what was happening was great. He was exuberant.

"I had the distinct impression that this was a case of some soldiers realising this was an opportunity to fire their weapon and they didn't want to miss the chance. The level of shooting grew as more soldiers arrived."

He said two soldiers in particular - Lance Corporal F, who will give evidence to the inquiry, and Soldier G, who has since died, seemed to be operating together to a preconceived plan.

"I have always been satisfied in my own mind that Lance Corporal F and Soldier G probably shot eight or 10 people that day," he said. "I thought it was their aggressive, positive actions which incited a few other loonies to join in."

He had a vague recollection of Lieutenant Colonel Derek Wilford, the commander on the ground that day, saying afterwards that the two soldiers would be better packed off to the SAS, and they were sent for SAS training when they returned to England.

Afterwards soldiers discussed how they would "cover their arses" as the official army view that troops had come under terrorist fire took hold.

He gave a statement to a lawyer from the Widgery tribunal, determined to tell the truth without "dropping people directly in it".

But when he described the shooting, the lawyer said: "We can't have that, can we, private?" and took his statement out of the room where it was changed.

He claimed another statement he had earlier given to the Royal Military Police was also fabricated to suggest he saw a sniper and heard shots from terrorists.

On the 25th anniversary he wrestled with conflicting feelings of loyalty to his former unit and the desire to tell the truth before sending an anonymous letter to a Belfast paper and then agreeing to appear unidentified on Channel 4 News. "Unspeakable acts took place on Bloody Sunday. There was no justification for a single shot I saw fired," he said.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/bloodysund...181310,00.html
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Old 10-30-2002, 06:39 PM   #28
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Well Maestro i know of a couple 'IRA' bands. Like Eire Og and Charlie and the Bhoys and they are very pro IRA. Over here in Canada we have a large Irish community and at the local pub many listen to them.

About Bloody Sunday all of the boys are going to the opening night. It'll be a good night. Most the ppl i am friends with are up-IRA so i listen to alot of the things they talk about and you always know bloody sunday is a topic that always comes up.
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Old 10-30-2002, 07:07 PM   #29
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it is playing around the corner from my apt. I wanna go see it...
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