U2Fanatic4ever
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mystery girl said:
ok you got me curious.. Care to post some of those good points that U2Kitten as stated?
Lola's at it again
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ok you got me curious.. Care to post some of those good points that U2Kitten as stated?
I do NOT want to argue with any of you and I don't want you to hate me. PLEBA is the wrong place to be saying the things I am. I have my views and gut feelings and I see how it looks to me and the average person who isn't a fan. I never thought I'd say this, EVER, but for the first time in my life I agree more with Chizip than anyone in PLEBA. He is right, Bono IS setting himself up for criticism. If you all really want to believe he is secretly doing wonderful things we have no proof of, go ahead and think that if it makes you feel better. I have no proof, either, but until you can show proof, I will always feel I am probably right. And I do NOT want to be.
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mystery girl said:
Thank you. It's so nice to have even one person give me any credit. That is the point I am trying to make, the general public and the rest of the world outside the U2 worship here thinks of Bono the way I have described. And that is something everyone should not feel good about. That is what I'm trying to get everyone to see.
Okay now I won't say another word on the subject.
U2Fanatic4ever
Blue Crack Addict
well neither do we .. who enjoys arguing.. And if you had said in the first place that these were ur gut feelings and views as opposed to stating them in a factual way maybe there would been some constructive discussions going on in here. As far as how it looks for the average person you can only assume how it may look to them.. I don't think it is wise to say you speak for everyone else either and generalize that this is how everyone else thinks of him.
You are not the 'bad guy' either.
You are not the 'bad guy' either.
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mystery girl said:
Fine...
From what I have read and learned, though, ( imo) the "general public" is either indifferent or hasn't heard about any of this stuff.
We (the fans) get much of our info from forums like this, but even on general entertainment mags, shows and websites, you hear very little about U2, much less their causes, contraversies, etc.
The things that raise a fuss here do not even cause a ripple out there...
Liesje
Blue Crack Addict
mystery girl said:
Because the general public doesn't know the truth and is therefore free to make ridiculous speculations stemming from their ignorance.
For those that won't let go of this "charity" conflict.....has Bono ever asked us to start giving more money to charity? I can't think of a time..... He's asked for our support, our voices, our votes, but I distinctly remember him always being avidly against "throwing pennies at a problem" (those being his words). So you can criticize him all you want, but it would be a lot more credible to judge him against what he actually is saying.
Ralphie
The Fly
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U2Kitten, you have a right to your opinion, even though I happen to disagree with it. And certainly I don't think anyone hates you for it! I guess it boils down to what your opinion of Bono is. Do I think he's the type who wouldn't want to be a showboat about giving to charity and would do it humbly, in private? Or do I think he's the type to insinuate he's out there doing something and using the humility excuse as a cover for the fact that he's not giving anything at all? I believe what I believe, but, as you said, we don't know for sure, so you're free to believe in whatever you choose.
As far as what the 'general public' thinks of U2...I know opinions differ but based on their album/tour sales I don't think we have to worry about them being pariahs just yet!
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Liesje said:
I've been here for years and I've seen and heard it all, I've been a 'Bono's Angel', and I think they have much more of a valid point than you do. Sorry.
This is another part of it. He DOES NOT ask for money, because then he'd feel pressured to give his own. He does whine about 'the price of taking in a movie' helping so many while he blows millions on cars and luxuries. Tell me that is not hypocrisy, and I will eat my monitor.
It does NO good to even try to explain this, you all think what you want to think because you want to think the best of him. I do NOT want to think badly of him, but the writing is on the wall. There's nothing left for me to say. I don't regret one word. I must step away from the thread now. I will not respond to any more posts.
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Liesje
Blue Crack Addict
U2Kitten said:
ummmm.....oooookaaaaay......
So you know him so well you get to make these kinds of assumptions about his personal motivations?
Honestly I don't care what his motivations are, all I care is that I know what MY motivations are and they don't change based on someones tax rate on their song's royalties.
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cg
The Fly
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U2Kitten said:
hmmmmm. based on everything we know about bono's faith and his public statements, do you think it is more of a stretch to believe he DOES donate some money or to believe that he DOESN'T donate anything at all? decide for yourself, but to me, it's a no-brainer to believe in him. he can leave the "press release" charity efforts to the other celebs, thanks very much.
peace
U2Fanatic4ever
Blue Crack Addict
U2Kitten said:
For some this may be how they feel but as someone just mentioned it could be that as most of the public outside of the U2 community are ill informed about what Bono and the boys really do. And now that I think about it us U2 fans don't know much more about this stuff than the public because they choose to make it private what they do with their monies in regards to charities for whatever reason that may be. As far as being public or not about this, especially with Bono. He will be criticized considerably either way..its a no win situation on that front.
U2Kitten said:
1) Bono has *always* been criticised--rightly or wrongly--for a good quarter century now for a variety of things. This is not exactly a new development!
2) As several people have pointed out, the proof is out there...you act like they are pulling their arguements out of their asses or something .
3) Outside of religious faith, it is foolish to come to a conclusion without proof to back it up...better to say "I don't know" than "I am probably right"!
4) Sorry, but you don't sound like you don't want to be right.
U2isthebest
ONE love, blood, life
All I have to say is that people are usually questioned and dragged through the dirt the most, when they do the most good. What a world we live in, huh?
U2Fanatic4ever
Blue Crack Addict
U2isthebest said:All I have to say is that people are usually questioned and dragged through the dirt the most, when they do the most good. What a world we live in, huh?
perplexing aint it? Actually I think it is good that we as the public continue to question what these people are doing and is it the right thing. It certainly will keep them semi grounded.. I mean one great thing about his fellow countrymen in ireland is that they will put him in his place if he gets too out of line..
U2isthebest
ONE love, blood, life
Double Post. Internet problem.
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U2Fanatic4ever
Blue Crack Addict
am I seeing double? 
didn't you just post that very thing on the previous page
didn't you just post that very thing on the previous page
U2isthebest
ONE love, blood, life
Yes. My Internet is malfunctioning tonight..and for some reason, it kicked me off for about 15 minutes, andf then said it hadn't posted the first time. Sorry about that!
U2Fanatic4ever
Blue Crack Addict
U2isthebest said:
that sucks.....i can relate tho!
U2isthebest
ONE love, blood, life
U2Fanatic4ever said:
that sucks.....i can relate tho!
Can't we all...
last unicorn
Blue Crack Addict
Happy New Year everyone.
This thread is somewhat ridiculous.
Those critisizing Bono should better take a look at their own sincerity.
Why do you have to wait for someone like him to TELL you to do something for charity?
I personally hope that Bono will never be pressured into publicly discussing or revealing how much money he donates, that would be a shame.
This thread is somewhat ridiculous.
Those critisizing Bono should better take a look at their own sincerity.
Why do you have to wait for someone like him to TELL you to do something for charity?
I personally hope that Bono will never be pressured into publicly discussing or revealing how much money he donates, that would be a shame.
"People think that artists in Ireland are tax free. Our publishing, which is about one third of our income, we have tax breaks on, and that's great and that's encouraged us to stay in Ireland and if that changes, it's not going to affect anything for U2 - but young U2s might have to leave and that would be a shame," said Bono.
So they went from paying zero to paying 43% of one third of their income. I'd say that is a big change, and even by moving the publishing tax part of their business to Netherlands they will still be paying more than they have been for the past 25 years, so it seems the issue is not really whether or not U2 is paying but where they're paying taxes (if they really wanted tax breaks so badly they'd go to Monte Carlo). And last time I checked they still live in Ireland (and I dare say they pay well bigger sums for taxes than the Irish average Joe) so the Slane speech is still valid. Like it or not, when you're as big as U2, money IS a part of the equation and like any business, U2 organisation has to make business decisions and no accountant in the world will tell you "that's right, let's pay 43% of one third of what you make when we can pay far less" (which means more money for the "charity" donations for all we know). That's all it was, not a "betrayal of their home" as the media likes to paint it. I do think that they make the assumption Bono = U2 and that U2 the band = U2 corporation/legal team/PM etc. and that like any celebrity the band are easy targets and prone to get critisized, even if the media and even fans don't have all the relevant facts.
And I think anyone probably looked at some point at any and all legal ways to pay less when doing their tax report, so the hypocrisy can start right there in the mirror.
So they went from paying zero to paying 43% of one third of their income. I'd say that is a big change, and even by moving the publishing tax part of their business to Netherlands they will still be paying more than they have been for the past 25 years, so it seems the issue is not really whether or not U2 is paying but where they're paying taxes (if they really wanted tax breaks so badly they'd go to Monte Carlo). And last time I checked they still live in Ireland (and I dare say they pay well bigger sums for taxes than the Irish average Joe) so the Slane speech is still valid. Like it or not, when you're as big as U2, money IS a part of the equation and like any business, U2 organisation has to make business decisions and no accountant in the world will tell you "that's right, let's pay 43% of one third of what you make when we can pay far less" (which means more money for the "charity" donations for all we know). That's all it was, not a "betrayal of their home" as the media likes to paint it. I do think that they make the assumption Bono = U2 and that U2 the band = U2 corporation/legal team/PM etc. and that like any celebrity the band are easy targets and prone to get critisized, even if the media and even fans don't have all the relevant facts.And I think anyone probably looked at some point at any and all legal ways to pay less when doing their tax report, so the hypocrisy can start right there in the mirror.
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last unicorn
Blue Crack Addict
Every sensible person will try to pay as little taxes as possible. It's totally understandable. I don't earn much but I try to minimize the amount of taxes I am paying in my country. And U2 still live in Ireland and still pay enough taxes there. They are smart, unlike many other artists who cannot handle their own money.
hcbiggs2002
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
rihannsu said:
I totally agree!
Anyone who knows anything about big business and what it takes to run a succesful company will fully understand why U2 HAD to move their royalties part of their company to Holland! And that they probably couldn't take the sudden hit of an extra 43% taxation, dispite Bono's bold statements!! Also, as already has been point out a number of times, U2 still pay other taxes including income tax and part of their income comes from their royalties, so it probably ends up getting taxed anyway!?! 
blueeyedgirl
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
U2girl said:
That's fine, I don't think Bono's kids will ever see the inside of a employment centre!
Okay I didn't want to come back, but this is so exteme I had to say something. Come on NOBODY is expecting him to give away ALL of his money 
If he's got 100 Million (Surely more now after this latest tour) he could do a lot of good to charity, write it off on his taxes and still leave his family well off. Bill Gates gives large sums but still remains very rich.
I always fantasized that if I were to hit one of those big jackpots in the lotto, I would put about 10 million for each of my kids into a trust fun so they'd never have to work or worry about bills like I do, then I'd help out all of my friends and relatives who were in financial woes FIRST, then I'd set up my own tax deductible charity and start giving away. Out of say, a 300 million jackpot, I'd give away about half to charity and use the other half for people I know. I'd set up funds to help poor Americans pay their utility bills and fix their cars. I know from experience those problems are a mountain when you don't have enough money. I would also create my own animal sanctuary. I'd also buy me a couple extra homes, but they wouldn't cost 14 million. I'd do well to get places that are far less than a million each. And cars? Why does a car have to cost 150 grand? Cheaper cars are just fine.
You live like Bono and soon you start thinking paying $150 for a pair of jeans is 'reasonably priced' It's just a peace of material! I feel guilty spending 20 on a pair of pants for myself. I'd never spend 100 no matter how much money I had. The point I'm trying to make is, you can be rich and live in comfort without extravagance and luxury to the max. If you decide to do that, it is of course your business, but don't go whining about the poor to working people. It makes you look like a 
hypocrite.
Oh, and when he goes to Africa he still manages to seek out the high dollar hotels after a day in the slums and shacks. Couldn't he just find a Motel 6 type of thing?(I've seen his hotel on TV specials, it is fancy) U2 has to have the most expensive of everything. During the Elevation tour, I spent about a half hour talking to one of the truck drivers who hauled their stuff around. He told me they lived 'a different kind of life' and would only stay in certain high end hotels, and in some cities, (like Charlotte for example) if there wasn't a hotel good enough for them, they'd stay hundreds of miles away and fly in for the show! If people live that high falootin', how can they nag anyone else? That's the point here.
I know in the end, if he does ANYTHING it's better than nothing. But the way he looks to others is NOT helping him gain many followers outside of his fandom. Something needs to be done about this. Constantly defending him does no good. People DO feel that way, and he needs to fix it.
If he's got 100 Million (Surely more now after this latest tour) he could do a lot of good to charity, write it off on his taxes and still leave his family well off. Bill Gates gives large sums but still remains very rich. I always fantasized that if I were to hit one of those big jackpots in the lotto, I would put about 10 million for each of my kids into a trust fun so they'd never have to work or worry about bills like I do, then I'd help out all of my friends and relatives who were in financial woes FIRST, then I'd set up my own tax deductible charity and start giving away. Out of say, a 300 million jackpot, I'd give away about half to charity and use the other half for people I know. I'd set up funds to help poor Americans pay their utility bills and fix their cars. I know from experience those problems are a mountain when you don't have enough money. I would also create my own animal sanctuary. I'd also buy me a couple extra homes, but they wouldn't cost 14 million. I'd do well to get places that are far less than a million each. And cars? Why does a car have to cost 150 grand? Cheaper cars are just fine.
You live like Bono and soon you start thinking paying $150 for a pair of jeans is 'reasonably priced'
It's just a peace of material! I feel guilty spending 20 on a pair of pants for myself. I'd never spend 100 no matter how much money I had. The point I'm trying to make is, you can be rich and live in comfort without extravagance and luxury to the max. If you decide to do that, it is of course your business, but don't go whining about the poor to working people. It makes you look like a hypocrite.Oh, and when he goes to Africa he still manages to seek out the high dollar hotels after a day in the slums and shacks. Couldn't he just find a Motel 6 type of thing?(I've seen his hotel on TV specials, it is fancy) U2 has to have the most expensive of everything. During the Elevation tour, I spent about a half hour talking to one of the truck drivers who hauled their stuff around. He told me they lived 'a different kind of life' and would only stay in certain high end hotels, and in some cities, (like Charlotte for example) if there wasn't a hotel good enough for them, they'd stay hundreds of miles away and fly in for the show! If people live that high falootin', how can they nag anyone else? That's the point here.
I know in the end, if he does ANYTHING it's better than nothing. But the way he looks to others is NOT helping him gain many followers outside of his fandom. Something needs to be done about this. Constantly defending him does no good. People DO feel that way, and he needs to fix it.
last unicorn
Blue Crack Addict
This whole discussion is getting really annoying.
No, he does not need to fix anything so you or anyone else having a problem with him can sleep better.
These are your problems, not his.
People's expectations and opinions are not his problem.
He cannot live to make everyone happy, it's impossible.
Anyone can live the way they want to live as long as they are not hurting anyone.
Please stop assuming that Bono does not donate money. He does not need to make it public. Making donations public is pathetic. He is publicly helping on a different level. He does what he can and the work and time and effort he is spending on these issues can hardly be matched by any other famous person.
No, he does not need to fix anything so you or anyone else having a problem with him can sleep better.
These are your problems, not his.
People's expectations and opinions are not his problem.
He cannot live to make everyone happy, it's impossible.
Anyone can live the way they want to live as long as they are not hurting anyone.
Please stop assuming that Bono does not donate money. He does not need to make it public. Making donations public is pathetic. He is publicly helping on a different level. He does what he can and the work and time and effort he is spending on these issues can hardly be matched by any other famous person.
It's his business how he spends his money, or should he report and justify anything he does with it? So he's rich and likes a fancy lifestyle, that's nothing new. You think the rest of the band doesn't have more than 1 house or big cars? BTW they all support Bono's work so I guess they're hypocrits too.
The issue is what the world governments are about to do with their money. Not what Paul Hewson does (which I believe to be more effective than smoking all his money in 1 day for Africa). I don't think that being rich automatically means he doesn't donate (I remember a report that all members of the band and McGuiness donated 1 million Euro each for charity for Africa in 2005, which of course doesn't get nearly as covered as the "Bono wants his hat" stories) or that his activism is hypocritical. People like Jeffrey Sachs and Paul O Neil were impressed about his homework getting done on the issues. Everyone, him included, is aware of the bizzare and absurd image or a rich celebrity getting into world poverty. But the issue is not any less valid, or pressing, just because it's talked about a rich, famous man in shades.
I bet the vast majority of "ohh the fancy lifestyle" critics would be, given his position, spending money faster than you can say "loaded" and probably doing nothing about poverty.
The issue is what the world governments are about to do with their money. Not what Paul Hewson does (which I believe to be more effective than smoking all his money in 1 day for Africa). I don't think that being rich automatically means he doesn't donate (I remember a report that all members of the band and McGuiness donated 1 million Euro each for charity for Africa in 2005, which of course doesn't get nearly as covered as the "Bono wants his hat" stories) or that his activism is hypocritical. People like Jeffrey Sachs and Paul O Neil were impressed about his homework getting done on the issues. Everyone, him included, is aware of the bizzare and absurd image or a rich celebrity getting into world poverty. But the issue is not any less valid, or pressing, just because it's talked about a rich, famous man in shades.
I bet the vast majority of "ohh the fancy lifestyle" critics would be, given his position, spending money faster than you can say "loaded" and probably doing nothing about poverty.
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