Elevation vs. Vertigo...which is the better tour?

[u2wedge]

dude, even the designer of the tour admits they are pretty much the same thing



when the curtains of lights are not in use, it is pretty much the exact same production as elevation tour

there is also some merit to the saying 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it.'

Personally you could say the same thing about the Rolling Stones... they still have all that inflatable crap hanging off of their stage.

and their idea of hooking their fans up is putting them in scaffolding BEHIND thier stage. WTF?

 

[Axver]

And, for the record, I don't have a track record of basing my opinions on Edge's shirts.

Wasn't making a judgement on you personally. I just thought I'd nip the "band image" arguments in the bud because I think they're thoroughly irrelevant (except in certain cases such as if Bono had carried MacPhisto over to Popmart).

As far as the lighting goes ... I really couldn't care less, I like it being basic and I think Popmart and ZooTV were too much. Less is more to me. I also think the lottery is a great innovation.

I thoroughly agree on the matter of Pride/Streets though - terrible flow, and frankly, if Pride/Streets/One vanished, I would not be sad.

 

[timothius]

Elevation.

The band seem to be very comfortable with the whole show now. Which is to be expected after 150 odd dates with a similar concept.

Setlist wise Vertigo was marginally better however the dropping of anything that has a pulse has switched that. There is more quantity on Vertigo, but better quality on Elevation.

The band were exploring a new concept on Elevation, where aside from a few political themes and soapboxes there doesn't seem to be a great deal new or stimulating for the band.

Sken's analysis was pretty on the money I thought too.

 

[rock888nwo]

vertigo wins hands down...i love it that they have played so many boy songs...and the resurrection of zoo station is awesome...plus, it is supporting a better album....also, the band hasn't been playing this well in over 10 years...some weak spots--such as the seemingly never changed miracle drug through one setlist spots...however, overall one of their best tours ever i'd say

 

[MTEdge]

I like Vertigo better. I saw the Vertigo outside broadcast twice in London and was blown away. But, what really gets me about Vertigo are the songs being played. Yes, I'd love to hear more POP and Zooropa songs, but did anyone think we'd hear AB songs like Wild Horses and Zoo Station? Did anyone think they'd hear Electric Co., Gloria, or Running to Stand Still again? A B-side like Fast Cars? Miss Sarajevo? An acoustic encore (yes it slows the momentum, but doing the acoustic set during an encore takes balls)?

The point is that the back catalog stuff on Vertigo makes it more special.

With that said, the Elevation Tour after 9/11 was spiritual. I loved the emotional highs of the post-9/11 shows. (FWIW, I was at each of the NY/NJ shows in Oct. '01.) The Super Bowl performance was spine tingling, hearing MLK segue into Streets (with all the U2 conspiracy theorists wondering whether that was purposely done because, if you listen to the album versions of each song, it appears that MLK's ending on Unforgettable Fire segues perfectily into Street's intro on Joshua Tree). But, that's because of 9/11 and the gruesome sense of loss that permeated the world after 9/11. All U2 did was to be there and give us a hug.

With that said, the setlists after 9/11, for the most part, were utterly weak. (Notable exceptions are the ND show and Larry's birthday in Providence, and the shows where one's offs--like In God's Country--were played.) Some shows were unreasonably short as well, i.e., less than two hours. (BTW, Axver, the chorus of Love is Blindness was snippetted after One at one early first leg Elevation show--maybe Atlanta?)

Anyway, Vertigo just has better songs, maybe even a better album to tour on as well. (Sorry for the long post...)

 

[Infinity]

The problem with Vertigo is that it is not intimate enough. I have to say, it has too much politics, poverty, etc. NOT THAT IT IS BAD THAT BONO IS INTO IT, I'M GLAD HE IS TRYING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD. But honestly speaking, the One Campaign speech before "One", "Streets" Africa intro, Africa backdrop, Human Rights video, "Everyone" speech during "Pride", loses the intimacy of the show that Elevation had. Also, the Elevation version of "Streets" kills the Vertigo version, especially because of that Psalm opening...btw, what Psalm is it?

 

[anitram]

Elevation.

Even the merchandise for this is practically recycled with the symbol shirts.

And Pride--->Streets is absolutely just bad. I don't even know why Pride is being played at all but if they insist on it, then for God's sake, change this segue.

That's not to say Vertigo is bad. I had a fabulous time on tour this year and would love to see it again once or 10 more times. I actually like the light curtains, they're really effective the first time you see them. The setlists have had some pretty cool additions, but then if you saw the band in Europe you may not agree with me.

 

[BWU2Buffs]

by the way, this quote:

has always bugged me and always will. the, it worked before, so lets do it again, attitude is everything u2 used to be against. it's called complacency. the zootv tour was the greatest tour of all time (thoug i know axver doesnt agree with that), yet they didnt do it again because it was so successful, they tried something new and daring. that's the u2 i fell in love with.

Well, that shiny lemon ball WAS new and daring, and flopped miserably by many accounts; and could be the low point in U2 touring history.

Was Pop Mart really that new and daring after Zoo TV? Take away the hanging Trabants and IMO you essentially have the same concept, with better technology -- one big mofo of a t.v. screen versus 40 little ones doing the same trick.

I understand your point, but I wonder -- after the sensory overloads of Zoo and Pop to the intimacy of Elevation and Vert, exactly what could have been done differently that qualifies as new and daring? -- There is only so much arena "real esate" and technology to work with.

In response to the original question -- I vote Vertigo -- better music, better new material, similar lighting and production; but for the most part loses the acoustic set which, although enjoyable during Elevation, was not as good as Vertigo's replacement songs.

 

[timothius]

I understand your point, but I wonder -- after the sensory overloads of Zoo and Pop to the intimacy of Elevation and Vert, exactly what could have been done differently that qualifies as new and daring?

You would still be going for the intamacy in an arena venue... but the method would be different. Maybe change the stage set up around a bit... have they considered a centre stage instead of an end stage. Would work quite well with whole "Vertigo" theme.

Which brings me to another point I don't quite think we understand (nor they) understand what the Vertigo tour is all about. Is it supposed to be a "political tour" or is the the "mother fucking return to rock tour" or is it the "adult contemporary tour" or even the "return to Boy tour"? Elevation did a great job a defining itself as an intamite "goal is soul type tour". The whole idea of this tour seems to be a bit all over the place.

 

[U2DMfan]

The thing is, can't exactly the same be said for every single eighties tour?

Uh yeah, basically. So what exactly is your point?

The one time when they really went balls out on the production, you don't even like it.

Setlists variety is setlist variety, if it were as simple as song selection then you could crunch the numbers alone, but it's not exactly a numbers game is it? Or else you could really really simplify this issue. Maybe production is a big deal, after all, you got the songs on each album and single etc.

Point is, 46 songs vs 45 songs, if it were simply that for you or anyone else, then what is the need for discussion. Quite simple.
I am not sure many of us would look at it this way. Production and theatrics are a huge part of the equation.

I don't have a preference yet, I haven't seen Vertigo yet and have strayed from most bootlegs etc. My hunch is with the norm on the forum at this point. Production is quite similar, maybe a bit more interesting song selection.

 

[jphelmet]

Both are great. Both have their good and bad.

negatives of elevation:
every night, almost exact same set, and shorter shows.
positives of elevation:
walk on was a great closer, bad/40/streets (perfection), and kite every night.

negatives of vertigo:
vertigo x2, miss sarajevo (so, so boring) , stuck in a moment, bono's ridiculous drumming, pride-streets, bullet

positives of vertigo:
an cat dubh/into the heart, the first time, gloria, out of control, bad closing, return of 40, the unknown (the small possibility of a change as opposed to elevation).

So all this adds up to the are the about equal (and both better than popmart- but slightly behind zootv)

 

[theu2fly]

I think Elevation was more cheery, where as Vertigo seems to be darker.

Elevation didn't play a lot of rarities, but Vertigo has and will.

 

[Axver]

Uh yeah, basically. So what exactly is your point?

That while the production in general in the eighties basically did not change, I don't see anyone arguing that all those tours were the same. The War Tour, for instance, was distinctly different to the UF Tour. There's more differences between Elevation and Vertigo than War and UF Tours, and yet people are trying to say Vertigo's Elevation Part II but no-one's claiming UF was War Tour Part II.

As far as I'm concerned, it's about the quality of the music, production isn't even an issue to me except to the point where it's practical - i.e. the b-stage/heart/ellipse creating more 'front row' positions. I'm not a U2 fan because they have some nice lights and screens live.

 

[Axver]

Elevation didn't play a lot of rarities

I really must take issue with this. Elevation may not have had as many rarities, but it still brought out a few: Out Of Control and 11 O'clock Tick Tock for the first time in eleven years, In God's Country for the first time in twelve, the only full band Slow Dancing ever, one of only two performances of Spanish Eyes since 1987, and the only time even a portion of Two Shots Of Happy has been sung live. Not to mention the first complete All I Want Is You since Lovetown.

Sure, stuff like An Cat Dubh being brought back after 20.5 years or The First Time being played live for the first time ever trumps that, but Elevation was a good beginning for bringing back old material.

 

[Lemonfix]

I gotta go with Elevation as well, if only by a little...

LOVE that old songs are being brought back on this tour, like the HTDAAB songs live better than the ATYCLB songs live. Prefer the Human Rights video to the Charleton Heston one (a gun control thing seemed way out of left field and there wasn't much explanation of it, the Human Rights video ties in better with B's causes and current events.)

And yet...There was something more fresh and new about general attitude of the last tour. Song transitions and flow were much better on Elevation. Streets was better, and perhaps the songs that they played as part of the basic set are ones that I like more than the ones that they are playing now (i.e., Gone, Stay , Bad.) You could tell that the band had something to prove and I loved the nightly band intros. I almost feel like they have gotten a tad cocky. And the mailman. For God's sake. That graphic would have looked cheesy on the Joshua Tree Tour.

Still, love Vertigo, will be in Pittsburgh tomorrow and will love every minute of it (especially when I hear the First Time live for, em, the first time.)

 

[BWU2Buffs]

Which brings me to another point I don't quite think we understand (nor they) understand what the Vertigo tour is all about. Is it supposed to be a "political tour" or is the the "mother fucking return to rock tour" or is it the "adult contemporary tour" or even the "return to Boy tour"? Elevation did a great job a defining itself as an intamite "goal is soul type tour". The whole idea of this tour seems to be a bit all over the place.

Maybe all over the place IS the point -- my thesaurus says that "dizziness" is a synonym for Vertigo.

Maybe Elevation is just one long book with the same themes and Veritigo is a collection of short stories.

F*&^ I don't know, all I know is I like the show; and I liked the previouis shows; I just wish I had more cash and less spousal & family responsibilities so I could see more of them dammit.

 

[U2FanPeter]

To be honest, I think it's a complete toss-up that depends on what angle you examine and exactly what shows you attended.

I will also say that Elevation-Vertigo shares as many similarities as ZOOTV-Zooropa and JT-R&H.

One important thing nobody has brought up is that this had a completely different experience in Europe than it did in America. No previous U2 tour has done that.

In fairness to U2 supposed "repitition", their previous tours have been a response to the music world at the time. Has there been much to get excited about in music since the Super Bowl in 2002? All I can think of is music DVDs and ipods - and u2 covered both.

Personally, I choose Elevation because of it's timing with their career and the world around them. They had more to fight for in 2001.

u2fp

 

[LemonMelon]

Just to review Elevation:

1. I Will Follow
2. Out of Control

3. Sunday
4. New Years Day
5. 40 (once, in a pre-show)

6. A Sort of Homecoming
7. Pride
8. Bad

9. Streets
10. I Still Haven't Found
11. WIth or Without you
12. Bullet
13. In God's Country

14. Desire
15. All I Want Is You
16. Angel of Harlem

18. Fly
19. Even Better than the Real THing
20. One
21. Until the End of the World
22. Mysterious Ways
23. Wild Horses (incomplete I think)

24. Stay

25. Discotheque
26. Staring at the Sun
27. Gone
28. Please
29. Wake Up Dead Man

30. Beautiful Day
31. Elevation
32. Walk On
33. Stuck in a Moment
34. Kite
35. In A Little WHile
36. Wild Honey
37. Peace On Earth
38. New York
39. When I Look at the WOrld (incomplete I think)

40. 11 O'Clock Tick Tock
41. She's A Mystery
42. Sweetest Thing
43. Party Girl

I probably missed one or two . . .

SV

You missed Ground Beneath Her Feet.

 

[Axver]

You missed Ground Beneath Her Feet.

Yep, and 40, Wild Horses, Peace On Earth, and When I Look At The World need to be removed. None were done in full at Elevation Tour shows. I also think She's A Mystery To Me was only done in the abbreviated form so it should be removed from the list too.

 

[U2girl]

Well, that shiny lemon ball WAS new and daring, and flopped miserably by many accounts; and could be the low point in U2 touring history.

Was Pop Mart really that new and daring after Zoo TV? Take away the hanging Trabants and IMO you essentially have the same concept, with better technology -- one big mofo of a t.v. screen versus 40 little ones doing the same trick.

I understand your point, but I wonder -- after the sensory overloads of Zoo and Pop to the intimacy of Elevation and Vert, exactly what could have been done differently that qualifies as new and daring? -- There is only so much arena "real esate" and technology to work with.

Also don't forget U2 virtually copied the B-stage and acoustic set idea from Zoo TV on Popmart, and the costume changes and making a point about society by using screens.

Notably the two biggest re-hashes of this tour - the mini Zoo TV set, right down to the words flashing on the screen and character hopping around from Bono, and ending with 40 - have received virtually no complaints from people who proudly trumpet the "it's a repeat of the past" line.

On the other hand, virtually every new thing they tried on this tour - slow Boy songs, later flashing of lights in Streets, no bullfight in Until the end of the world, Miss Sarajevo and the new encore on this leg, the War trilogy - got trashed.

To answer the question, going by bootlegs and pictures I've seen - there's things I prefer on Elevation and there's things I prefer on Vertigo - I will answer this properly once I see the DVD of this tour.

 

[babyman]

Vertigo is better, because Bono´s voice sounds better, because Adam has no more glasses, because Larry sings, because Edge has still that cap...............................

 

[djerdap]

Vertigo by far

- better new material
- Bono's voice much better
- better setlists, more rarities
- no acoustic set for the half of the tour, better acoustic set when it did appear
- longer shows

 

[Clawgrabber]

axver, help me out...

On elevation, when did they play:

In God's Country
Slow Dancing
Spanish Eyes
Two Shots Of Happy

also:

"Not to mention the first complete All I Want Is You since Lovetown"



chicago may 16th 2001


by the way, why doesn't "when i look at the world count?"

they sang nearly every lyric. In fact all of it was sung except for these 2 parts:
A:
I can't wait any longer
I can't wait 'til I'm stronger
Can't wait any longer
To see what you see
When I look at the world

B:
Tell me, tell me
What do you see
Tell me, tell me
What's wrong with me

(B missing is a good thing in my opinion, as I have always hated repeated words in rhyme schemes: me, see, me, ME???)

Anyway, what constitutes a full version of a song as opposed to a snippet.

Like on Popmart for example...
they never played the "your eyes make a circle" bridge on I will follow, but that still counts as the full song...

Yahweh has NEVER been played with the bridge "His love is like a drop in the ocean, etc)

but that still counts (unfortunately, as that is by far the best part of the song)...

not trying to start a debate, I just still think that When I Look At The World was a tour highlight, and don't consider it to be a snippet.

 

[djerdap]

When I Look at the World was played to Bad chords and half of the song was missing. That fact alone counts the song as a snippet.

 

[sv]

Regarding Wake Up Dead Man, at least 2 of the 3 verses (with subsequent chorus) were played at several shows. That's the same as New Years Day (last verse has never been played live as far as I know), but I don't see anyone saying that should be removed. So as far as I'm concerned, Wake Up Dead Man stays.

Acoustic vs. full-band is irrelevant to whether a song was played.

I agree with Axver on Elevation rarities, and would also add: don't forget A Sort of Homecoming (first time in 14 years) and Sweetest Thing. Did we think we'd ever see them played/again?

40 was played at the London Astoria pre-show . . . so it was played in 2001 but not technically in an Elevation tour show.

Revised lists are below - I have yielded to the "strict constructionists" in our group by deleting some songs.

 

[sv]

And same for Peace On Earth - it was played in equal proportion to the amount of New Years Day that gets played.

sv

 

[sv]

REVISED: The following songs meet the "New Year's Day" standard for a complete played song (2/3 verses at least):

VERTIGO TOUR:

1. I Will Follow
2. An Cat Dubh
3. Into the Heart
4. Out of Control
5. The Ocean
6. The Electric Co.

7. Gloria

8. Sunday Bloody Sunday
9. New Years Day
10. 40

11. Pride
12. Bad

13. Where the Streets . ..
14. I Still Haven't Found
15. With or Without You
16. Bullet
17. Running to Stand Still

18. All I Want Is You

19. Zoo Station
20. One
21. Until the End of the World
22. Wild Horses
23. The Fly
24. Mysterious Ways

25. The First Time

26. Discotheque

27. Beautiful Day
28. Elevation
29. Stuck in a Moment
30. Walk On
31. In A Little While

32. Vertigo
33. Miracle Drug
34. Sometimes . . .
35. Love and Peace or Else
36. City of Blinding Lights
37. All Because of You
38. Crumbs from your Table
39. Original of the Species
40. Yahweh

41. Party Girl
42. Fast Cars
43. Miss Sarjevo

TOTAL: 43 "complete" U2 originals played on Vertigo.

SV

 

[sv]

REVISED: The following songs meet the "New Year's Day" standard for a complete played song (2/3 verses at least):

ELEVATION TOUR:

1. I Will Follow
2. Out of Control

3. Sunday
4. New Years Day

5. A Sort of Homecoming
6. Pride
7. Bad

8. Streets
9. I Still Haven't Found
10. WIth or Without you
11. Bullet
12. In God's Country

13. Desire
14. All I Want Is You
15. Angel of Harlem

16. Fly
17. Even Better than the Real THing
18. One
19. Until the End of the World
20. Mysterious Ways

21. Stay

22. Discotheque
23. Staring at the Sun
24. Gone
25. Please
26. Wake Up Dead Man

27. Beautiful Day
28. Elevation
29. Walk On
30. Stuck in a Moment
31. Kite
32. In A Little WHile
33. Wild Honey
34. Peace On Earth
35. New York

36. 11 O'Clock Tick Tock
37. Slow Dancing
38. Sweetest Thing
39. Party Girl
40. Ground Beneath Her Feet

TOTAL: 40 "complete" U2 originals played on Elevation

 

[U2girl]

Spanish eyes, and while not original U2 songs they played Knockin' on heaven's door, People get ready, What's going on and All along the watchtower on Elevation. Also, they played "We love you" in...Antwerp?

(does Peace on earth count? I think the most they played was till the "they're reading names on the radio")

 

[Clawgrabber]

perhaps when i look at the world was to bad chords...

but half the song wasn't missing. see my post above.

they only skipped the "I can't wait any longer/tell me tell me" part