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Old 12-15-2010, 09:27 PM   #151
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No problem.

Actually, a few years ago Nashville was so far in jeapordy and was up for sale. Almost got bought out and shipped to Hamilton, Ontario.

Gary Bettman is really against relocation though. Big supporter of small market teams.
From what I've gathered, those US small market teams are still a larger market than Hamilton or even Winnipeg. I think that's why there's only 6 teams left in Canada.
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:28 PM   #152
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Which, again, I noted. They're not there... but they're in that direction if they dont shape up. Atlanta isn't in jeapordy of being moved anytime soon, but if their decrease in attendance continues to trend downward it could be a severe longterm issue (as with any team, not Atlanta specifically).
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:31 PM   #153
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Which, again, I noted. They're not there... but they're in that direction if they dont shape up. Atlanta isn't in jeapordy of being moved anytime soon, but if their decrease in attendance continues to trend downward it could be a severe longterm issue (as with any team, not Atlanta specifically).
Agreed.
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:39 PM   #154
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Big Grin

What I am trying to say is, the business of sports cannot be judged on what you see in an arena on any given night. "Gate" is only a percentage of revenue. It seems as if you are only judging on what you see in the stands. That is over simplifying it (and showing very little understanding of the business).
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:40 PM   #155
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From what I've gathered, those US small market teams are still a larger market than Hamilton or even Winnipeg. I think that's why there's only 6 teams left in Canada.
Certainly, and someone like Hamilton would have a tough time taking fans away from Toronto and the Maple Leafs. Even if they did, it'd still be a 'small market' team. Probably just with a more cultish following as opposed to teams like the Panthers, where you've got tons of 'casual' fans, if you will (you still have that diehard fanbase, just smaller).
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:44 PM   #156
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What I am trying to say is, the business of sports cannot be judged on what you see in an arena on any given night. "Gate" is only a percentage of revenue. It seems as if you are only judging on what you see in the stands. That is over simplifying it (and showing very little understanding of the business).
Trust me, I know what you're saying.

Nobody is going to want to buy ad space in an arena that doesn't touch 50% capacity for the prices they're currently running at.

Again, welcome to South Florida and The Billboard (a.k.a. The BankAtlantic Center). There are advertisements in the urinals. The upper decks are tarped off. Brought to you by Party City. The Powerplay has two sponsors. The Penalty Kill has two sponsors.

These ads are how a team like Florida, who puts less than average attendance, is able to survive. If that's what you're getting at with Atlanta, you need to understand what I'm saying. Attendance cant get any lower. Team sponsors will disappear.
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:46 PM   #157
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What I am trying to say is, the business of sports cannot be judged on what you see in an arena on any given night. "Gate" is only a percentage of revenue. It seems as if you are only judging on what you see in the stands. That is over simplifying it (and showing very little understanding of the business).
Didn't mean to overlook you, Zoney. You're absolutely right about the role corporate sponsors play.
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:59 PM   #158
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but quebec is a beautiful city!
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:01 PM   #159
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Now excuse me while I go cry pitifully as my team is going to set the NHL record for most seasons without a playoff appearance.

They just opened the game vs. Carolina 3 unanswered goals in the first 10 minutes of the game.

With 5 minutes left in the game they gave up their 4th goal, losing 4-3.
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:09 PM   #160
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These ads are how a team like Florida, who puts less than average attendance, is able to survive. If that's what you're getting at with Atlanta, you need to understand what I'm saying. Attendance cant get any lower. Team sponsors will disappear.

Are you looking at actual stats? Have you ever purchased or sold in-arena advertising? Let me know.
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:15 PM   #161
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Are you looking at actual stats? Have you ever purchased or sold in-arena advertising? Let me know.
I cant tell if you're being sarcastic at this point or not. It's not something you'd need evidence for. It's economics. Supply and demand. And it doesn't apply to just in-arena advertising. The same applies to TV commercial ad space.

Superbowl ad space is the most expensive ad space, year in and year out. Because it gets the most views. Attendance is the equivalent to views. Ad space on TV becomes cheaper on channels where there are less viewers, or during hours where there are less viewers (which is why you always see paid programming instead of real TV at 4 a.m., airing those generates more profit for the channel than doing a show with commercial breaks).
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:31 PM   #162
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The HBO 24/7 show is awesome so far!
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Old 12-15-2010, 11:15 PM   #163
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From what I've gathered, those US small market teams are still a larger market than Hamilton or even Winnipeg. I think that's why there's only 6 teams left in Canada.
Notwithstanding what Zoney is saying, teams in the aforementioned markets (and Quebec City) would be playing to sold out arenas each and every night. I think that much is clear.

With the absence of a huge television deal, the NHL remains a gate driven league. And with salaries tied to revenue under the current CBA, why wouldn't players want teams in Canadian markets where more revenue is generated (and this includes things like licensed merchandise)?

The lack of teams in those markets (especially Winnipeg) has a lot to do with corporate support, or lack thereof. Not sure if there's enough of it to fill luxury boxes, for example. Moreover, there's a noticeable lack of government support in terms of building arenas and stadiums in Canada, especially compared to the United States. The four new hockey arenas in Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, and Vancouver were all built with private funds, and it's the absence of private sector help in terms of building a new arena that drove teams from Winnipeg and Quebec out in the first place.

That seems to be changing now, at least with a future Quebec franchise. The provincial government has pledged $175 million towards construction of a $400 million arena that would also be the centrepiece of a 2022 Winter Olympics bid. These funds are contingent on federal funds but as of now, the Conservative federal government is sitting on the fence.

I'm not sure I support government money to build arenas, particularly when there are more pressing needs like health care to attend to. But I do support relocation to Canadian markets, especially Quebec City, because I see it as a no-brainer.

And, just so you all know, I'm not simply an advocate of relocation to Canada. I think there are other American markets that would make infinitely more sense than places like Nashville and Atlanta. I'm thinking places like Seattle, Portland, Milwaukee, and, yes, Hartford. I would wholeheartedly support that because I think it would be great for the sport.

One more thing: I think it's sad what's happening on Long Island, and would be upset if the Islanders would ever move. That, I feel, would be a bad thing for hockey. The sport needs a strong franchise in Nassau County.
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Old 12-15-2010, 11:44 PM   #164
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Big Grin

Islanders will move to Brooklyn with the Nets. The arena is being built above LIRR tracks.

Corporate support is a big factor for suites and sponsorship...Thrashers aren't going anywhere.

With that being said...here is a pretty desperate attempt to fill seats:



I would love to see hockey return to some of the Canadian cities as well as expand to the Northwest (Seattle/Portland). I just see corporate sponsorship being a big issue in the Canadian cities.

A nice win for the Flyers tonight.
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Old 12-16-2010, 12:08 AM   #165
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And Zoney breaks the thread.
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