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Old 09-05-2007, 02:02 PM   #31
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Hi BEAL!

I remember us having fun discussing U2 stuff here a few years back. So much has happened since then - in fact, I didn't even know you married! I'm sorry to hear, though, that you are having difficulties.

The bad news is that the first year of marriage is difficult for everyone. I think the reality of "married for life" finally hits people. The hype of getting caught up in a wedding and honeymoon has long since passed and now a couple has to plan their lives together.

What I read from your posts is a classic frustration. You did some of these things before you married, even gave items up for her (like your cats), yet now suddenly it's either not enough of she wants even more. So you try to give more, but even then, it seems as if it's not enough.

The issue here is the fact that she is exploring what she wants. She doesn't know, so she's taking things out on you. She doesn't like her job - so you support her decision to not work. But that doesn't help. She wants to go to school, so you support her decision there, but now she's afraid that won't work. In other words, she's dreading imagined things, afraid of failure. Her insecurities are mounting daily and sadly, you are her scapegoat.

Therefore, I strongly recommend counseling. Both of you need marriage counseling and she may need some personal counseling. If she refuses to go, then go on your own. Love is fantastic, but the life your leading is not productive for either of you.

Therefore, before separating, have a VERY calm discussion with her. If she starts to nag, cry, scream, or whatever, remain calm. Do not "feed" into her anger or insecurities. Do not tell her how you've done "so much" already. Just let her calm down or tell her you'll continue talking once she's calmer. With level calm minds, discuss that it's clear both of you need counseling. Despite your efforts, you cannot make her happy, which is tearing you apart. And this needs exploration.

I wish you the best during this difficult time.


P.S. I have two dogs now and I would never, ever give them up for anyone, love or not. So be careful about what she asks because it seems your sacrifices are not what she is really seeking.
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Old 09-05-2007, 02:41 PM   #32
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Oh yes I remember our discussions Dr....bet you're really a OLD MAN by now

We are in counseling, and have been for a couple of months. Really started out as a way to just kind of prepare for our married life. And now it's gotten more into issues with married life.

I guess something has got to give here. I am not going to give everything up. If that truely bothers her, then if she wants out, then that's the decision, and I have one heck of a life story going so far at 28 : )

We do have some exercises to go through, and we'll see how those turn out. The thing is we need some form of common ground. Neither one of us appear to want to budge for our own reasons.

In this book I'm reading, the author says that not every problem has a solution. It's finding a common ground and a way to work together. he doesn't even mean communication, it can just mean doing things a different way.

Of course having a gridlock can be the end of a relationship, and I hope this doesn't cause the end of one.

I can only control myself and how I feel. It just feels like we're going down...down...down....instead of up.
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Old 09-05-2007, 04:09 PM   #33
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Originally posted by BEAL
Oh yes I remember our discussions Dr....bet you're really a OLD MAN by now

We are in counseling, and have been for a couple of months. Really started out as a way to just kind of prepare for our married life. And now it's gotten more into issues with married life.

I guess something has got to give here. I am not going to give everything up. If that truely bothers her, then if she wants out, then that's the decision, and I have one heck of a life story going so far at 28 : )

We do have some exercises to go through, and we'll see how those turn out. The thing is we need some form of common ground. Neither one of us appear to want to budge for our own reasons.

In this book I'm reading, the author says that not every problem has a solution. It's finding a common ground and a way to work together. he doesn't even mean communication, it can just mean doing things a different way.

Of course having a gridlock can be the end of a relationship, and I hope this doesn't cause the end of one.

I can only control myself and how I feel. It just feels like we're going down...down...down....instead of up.
Old is relative BEAL. ;-) Let's just say that I am younger than the members of U2, but older than you. Oh, and I've tried writing to you several times over the years, but you have left yourself no way to be reached (either via PM here or e-mail - even BonoChick couldn't reach you!).

As for your situation, I do not wish to state or recommend anything that goes against your counselor. However, as you more than know, any relationship - even something as light as an internet friendship - is about compromise. If a person cannot offer anything to another, the reason for continuing that relationship is in question.

Based on what you wrote, though, it does appear you are willing to make sacrifices and alter your life. However, this is not working because of where your wife is right now. You could give her the moon and all she'd say is how she's not worthy of it and that you only gave her the moon because it's big and blocks her from your sight. In other words, it's a losing situation. This is why I feel your wife needs far more counseling.

Your marriage counseling is, in part, for you. You may even need separate counseling yourself now in order to better understand where she is and how you can support her more.

Counseling takes time. It's not like the movies where a person has a sudden realization. There may be issues of her self-esteem that may take a while to come out. And, it may even take another counselor to pull those issues out of her. Therefore, you need patience. The one thing I'm sensing in your notes is frustration and a lack of patience. At your age and experience, this is to be expected (one thing age does provide is experience and more patience). But this is also why I recommend counseling just for you - to learn how to understand her and, in turn, understand yourself.

The sad truth, though, is that despite your love and commitment, you still may need to separate. Just be sure that before you do, you've done all you could. Leaving your wife now - at a time when she really does need you most - won't win you many friends.

Good luck!
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Old 09-05-2007, 04:20 PM   #34
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It is not I who brought up the possibility. She said in our meeting today that she doesn't think we're going to work.

If we were to end our relationship, the last thing I'm going to worry about is how her family takes it. For starters, I wish her family was a little more involved with her. They tend to just treat her moods as "There she goes again", rather than realizing that she is hurting. Not saying they're bad people, but they tend to leave my wife out of the loop a lot.

And that's not to say that the way my wife acts sometimes, it's not surprising that they do their own thing.

I'm concerned that my wife and I may not be together in the near future. I'm concerned for where our love has gone? I know it's still there, but can there be an attempt from both of us to get it back? That I don't know.

We did live together for about 6 months prior to getting married, so it's not like we didn't have a idea. And that's just luck anyway, my parents never lived together until marriage and they're fine.

I have my trip to Chicago this weekend, and I really hope that maybe we can be on better terms before I go. I hate having to think about this all the time. I'd rather focus on having a good time with friends, instead of is my wife still mad at me?

As for where I've been. I disappeared for a couple of years, believe it or not, more women issues. I moved out of the parents home, got a job, had quite a few lady friends, some serious, some not, and then finally purchased a computer that wasn't for work.

I usually surf this place more now that my company doesn't have it filtered. With U2 making music at a less frequent pace it seems, this place can kind of be a little slow.

Of course now that you've found me, what do you plan on doing with me

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Old 09-05-2007, 04:51 PM   #35
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First off I think any counselor should tell her she's wrong, however blunt they want to be, that she thinks it's wrong for you two to bring up issues that are bothering you in counseling. Ummm.........isn't counseling supposed to help you with the issues, even if you've "discussed" it already?

From the things I've been through with my husband...good God....we can discuss it till we're blue in the face, but it should still be brought up in counseling....because whatever it is has to do with us and what's bothering one or both of us!

I wouldn't go jumping to seperation or divorce if you guys really love each other. Especially over something like this. Now if one of you were cheating or beating the other.....yeah grounds for seperation or divorce. But look at the reality of it. You've been married for 6 months!!!! No one has ever said that marriage or relationships are easy! And seperation shouldnt be used as an easy out either.

I'm not meaning to come down on you, from the sounds of it, you're not the one looking for the out. You're the one that wants to work things out and you shouldn't be made to feel guilty about doing your hobbies just because she doesnt understand them. Like so many others have said, she has to find a hobby of her own.
Again, if your hobbies were physically hurting her or abusing her, or causing you to cheat on her.....I'd be telling you to knock it off. But so far from the sounds of it you've made an effort to juggle things around and to find time with her and for her.

Did she really think that life after marriage was going to be sitting there starring at one another? Or that you'd be just ever so happy to be her shadow or entertainment planner?

Im sorry, I don't mean any disrespect for you or your wife, it just sounds like she really needs to grow up a bit and maybe the counselor will tell her that. I'll leave you with some words that were given to me a few months back when I was dealing with a pretty dark situation in my marriage. Fight like hell. Fight for your marriage if that's what you want and fight till you can't fight anymore.

Those words helped me, and they continue to do so. And I think it's pretty cool that someone on here, in the confessionals is the one that gave me that advice.

I hope it helps you as well.

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Old 09-05-2007, 06:37 PM   #36
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BEAL, I am sorry to hear all this. It's not that I think splitting up or divorce or whatever is bad. It just does make me sad when others are possibly hurting.

Now, one thing I want to get across is this. I'm not an expert so take this as you wish, but I do know counseling takes time and honestly, things can tend to get worse before getting better. Maybe I'm way off and you've been through counseling longer than I think, but if it hasn't been that long, perhaps take that into consideration.

I'm going to stop here. I could go on with all this mumbojumbo about communication/expectation/perception and blah blah blah, but you have heard all this. I'm not going to bash your wife either at all because I don't know the whole thang on that side. I like that line above from kiki, "Fight like hell...if that's what you want."

Sidenote: Is she going to DMACC? Drake? ISU? (Iowa native)
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Old 09-05-2007, 06:41 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by BEAL
It is not I who brought up the possibility. She said in our
Of course now that you've found me, what do you plan on doing with me

The gay innuendo never gets old
Actually, I never really "lost" you, baby. I have periodically replied to your posts in various threads, but you never responded. It's unfortunate that it took this thread to do so. But you can PM me if you want.

As for the family... yeah, I can see that if your wife has a pattern of self-esteem issues that her family has probably been where you were 10-15 years ago and have realized that they can't change her, so they accept her. Trouble is, she probably needed counseling way back then. Had she received it, you might know a different woman today. Of course, that leads to another situation - if she were a different woman, would you even know her let alone have married her? Such is the way of life.

For now, I recommend as much counseling as your schedules and budgets allow. Use all resources, including free ones from your employer. If ultimately she sadly realizes that her unhappiness stems from her marriage, then...

Of course, I'll always be her to snog, I mean, comfort you, BEAL.
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Old 09-05-2007, 06:47 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by BEAL
And that's just luck anyway, my parents never lived together until marriage and they're fine.
It isn't all luck. It's a combination of being who you really are when you're still dating, having the ability to communicate before marriage, and simply being compatible.

On other notes:

Was she like this before you married her? If not, what happened? If so, why did you marry her?

Compatibilty is as important as love in a marriage, maybe even more so at times. It could be you two just aren't compatible.

As for fighting like hell, just make sure you really want what you're fighting for and can live with the results.
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Old 09-05-2007, 06:59 PM   #39
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As for fighting like hell, just make sure you really want what you're fighting for and can live with the results.
Yeah, I made sure I included the "if that is what you want." But I don't think I emphasized that. However probably be sure it is what she wants too.
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Old 09-06-2007, 04:38 AM   #40
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Keep in mind that there are a lot of different kinds of counselling. Is she seeing a counsellor on her own as well? I can empathise a bit with what she's going through (I've been signed off work for seven weeks for depression), and I think talk therapy is completely useless for me since knowing that my issues may stem from my childhood or whatever doesn't tell me what to do with them.
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Old 09-06-2007, 08:52 AM   #41
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She does go to a counselor for her own issues, and has ever since she was a child.

She first starting going because it was recommended that her and her sibblings go after their parents divorce. She continued to see one just as a way of talking and getting stuff off of her chest.

The doctor just recently upped her dosage of happy pills (she's been on them for about 6 weeks), so hopefully in a few months those can really start to work wonders.

As for her being like this before we were married, no not really. Every women I've been with has issues, and my wife was/is no different. She would have mood swings, pout, etc. It would only last a day or even a few hours.

Of course I'm going to be there for her. What is bugging the hell out of me is that it feels like she's asking me to give up too much. We talked last night and she told me that she does like my TKD and what it does for me, but she doesn't like how it takes me away for most of the night. She says there may not be a compromise, and that she'll just have to learn to deal with it. I told her dealing with it doesn't mean bitching me out every month.

It's kind of the same way with golf. She doesn't mind that I play, it just sucks for her cause I'm gone for 5-8 hours playing it. I told her I can do a better job of not spending so much time after the round drinking and talking. Maybe have a beer and then get out.

I just want her to get a fucking activity so she's doing something. Unfortunately, her depression has put her in a state of "I don't wanna". Which then forces me to want to lay the hammer down.

Despite having our spat yesterday morning, we seemed to be fine last night. So I'm very glad that we didn't continue on that mess.
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Old 09-06-2007, 09:39 AM   #42
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I'm glad she's seeing a counselor, but based on the few things you wrote here, it's possible she may need to see another person. If she's been seeing someone for this long, yet still has these extreme issues of self-esteem and insecurity, this suggests to me that the counseling isn't working. It may be time to find another.

That said, your wife does have a point. Your TKD obviously keeps you in shape, allows you to vent frustration and is a good break from family - just as her workouts are. One way to help her understand this is perhaps to have her work out as well on the evenings you have TKD. That is, instead of always exercising in the morning, she has classes at night. This way, you are both busy on those nights and after your classes/work-outs are over, you can enjoy each the rest of the evening. As it stands, she's sitting home alone for even longer, while you are busy.

Given that TKD does take you away from home, golf may be something of a luxury. The fact remains that you have a responsibility now - her. Either you play golf less frequently, she finds activities outside of home for her to do while you golf, or, and perhaps best of all, she joins you. Golf is also great exercise and as long as you don't turn this into a competition with your wife, it could be a sport the two of you enjoy long into your senior days.

In other words, given that you are now married, it's time that you stop doing things alone or with buds, and more with her. Yes, you still need your separate time and I encourage all couples to have this. But the definition of couple means doing more things together. Sitting around at home bored, though, is not the solution. So you sacrificing your TKD nights or golf days just to watch TV with her while she grumbles how worthless she is clearly isn't the answer. A compromise for her is to get out and either join you or find other activities with friends or her church or other groups in the area (including volunteering, such as being a Big Sister (mentoring), working with animals at a shelter, helping an elderly person or teaching someone to read; or a job perhaps that is fun, like washing dogs or entertaining children). Hobbies can also be wonderful, such as building or making VALUABLE collections (gathering junk is expensive and not a fix, but a valuable collection not only provides the excitement of collecting and fixing old items, but could be a nice "nest egg" for you some day). Even writing, reading, interacting online, etc. could be great ways to learn more and help her get out of this dark place.

So if you compromise to be with her more, only do so if she compromises to actually do something!

And while anti-depressant medicines may be beneficial, I think she needs another counselor to help her get at the root of her issues. It is possible she has a chemical imbalance, where the medicines are needed (and may be needed for a while). But I also think a proper counselor can help her overcome many issues - issues that her current counselor clearly cannot help her resolve.

Good luck!
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Old 09-06-2007, 11:35 AM   #43
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I just want her to get a fucking activity so she's doing something. Unfortunately, her depression has put her in a state of "I don't wanna".
she doesnt like sports and I'm guessing she doesnt like video games. Tell her to join a book club, a quilting circle....lol sorry. Or something crafty. Suggest she volunteers at a Big Brothers/Big Sisters club or something
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Old 09-06-2007, 12:03 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kiki

Suggest she volunteers at a Big Brothers/Big Sisters club or something
That helped me a great deal when I was depressed. No matter how bad I felt, I was always in a good mood as soon as I picked up my little sister. It was impossible to be sad around her. You are also more motivated to keep your commitment, as you don't want to disappoint your little.
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Old 09-06-2007, 02:10 PM   #45
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I volunteered through college for Circle K. met so many great people who I'm still friends with today and it was nice to help out and have some purpose even when the rest of my life could be chaotic at times.
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