Meaning of true friendship

[girlhappy]

I dont know where to begin exactly. But the thing is:there is a lot on my mind lately. When nothing happens you can write about nothing,right? Maybe i am just rambling here and there...But my question is: how can you decribe independence? Not just in man/woman relationships, but also in friendship,,,,where is that line? I dont know,maybe it sounds stupid but ..what is your definition of friendship with concrete examples. Including..what you have done for your friends etc. i would really like to know because sometimes i got the feeling i am asking too much of my friends. And sometimes i got the feeling i was willing to give everything which is not good for your self-protection either.
Any thoughts would be greately appreciated

 

[BonosBaby12]

My definition of friendship is someone who is always going to be there when you need them. Plus it's having fun with that person without a bunch of drama. It's understanding each other too with little words. Great feeling when you can just give your friend a look and so many words are spoken that way.

As for the things that I do for my friend's I am a great listener. Many times I have been the rock that a friend can lean on. Always make it clear that Im available to my TRUE friends so they can call at anytime. Like to send e-mails or cards through the mail when a friend is having a rough time. Nothing like having someone's day brightened with some thoughtfulness. I can honestly say that the ones I consider true would do anything for me. They know I will do the same in return too .

 

[For Honor]

my question is: how can you decribe independence? Not just in man/woman relationships, but also in friendship,,,,where is that line?

1 - Independence is being able to sustain yourself without the help of other people (or things, perhaps). It comes in many forms - emotional, finincial, independance from drugs, from habits, etc. The more independant you are, the less you need externallly to maintain a level of "I'm doing okay"-ness, to maintain a level of being comfortable and secure with oneself.

2 - as far as relationships go, I don't think it's about independance. Different people have different needs for interaction, and perhaps are more used to certain amounts of interaction than other people.

I think some people fall into the "trap" of being more needy/clingy to people than others, yeah. But....... it is hard to draw the line between personality type and right/wrong.


It sounds like you just need to find the right kind of person who will be sensative to your needs, girlhappy. There are people who are just like you; you're not the only one who feels that way. I suggest you try to find one of them.

 

[blindinglights7]

First of all, there has to be some degree of dependence for there to even be a relationship. Otherwise, it would be, "I don't need you," and there would be no relationship what-so-ever. Although, maybe I'm not understanding exactly what you're asking about 'independence'.

sometimes i got the feeling i am asking too much of my friends. And sometimes i got the feeling i was willing to give everything which is not good for your self-protection either.

A friendship is a give-and-take relationship. Your friend should be able to lean on you, and likewise you lean on him/her. I suppose there is a balance, regarding asking too much and giving too much. This is just an idea, but maybe you can tell how you should give by the other person.

Three things--
1. How much they give.
2. How they react to what you give.
3. What they ask of you.

I hope that sort of makes sense.

 

[girlhappy]

Re: Re: Meaning of true friendship

Three things--
1. How much they give.
2. How they react to what you give.
3. What they ask of you.

I hope that sort of makes sense.

 

[mickey]

I'm not being smug in the slightest, but try to read Ayn Rand's "fountainhead" or "Atlas Shrugged" - it'll lend an extremely practical perspective into these sorts of things. I do favor some of what blindinglights says though, in that there must exist a sort of dependence in any meaningful/deep relationship or else there is no justification. The rest is where I deviate from her, because I'm a big believer in what comes naturally. If you are at the stage of questioning, then it's a symptom of an imbalance. Do you question your relationship with your parents/siblings in a similar manner? It's not about give and take, it's exclusively about what works for you. There are people, circumstances and relationship tides that will naturally work for you, and others that will not. In a very cliched sense "use the force luke". Something I once read that stuck with me about friendship: "A friend is someone who lets you be yourself"

 

[blindinglights7]

I'm a big believer in what comes naturally. If you are at the stage of questioning, then it's a symptom of an imbalance. Do you question your relationship with your parents/siblings in a similar manner? It's not about give and take, it's exclusively about what works for you. There are people, circumstances and relationship tides that will naturally work for you, and others that will not. In a very cliched sense "use the force luke". Something I once read that stuck with me about friendship: "A friend is someone who lets you be yourself"

I totally agree with what you said. I'm not saying that a relationship should be forced. If it doesn't feel natural and comfortable, then it probably isn't a good relationship. It's like forced smiles. You know how sometimes a posed picture doesn't turn out so well, but a spontaneous picture will turn out great? Well, of course that's only an example, and it's not always that way. But can you sorta see my point. The un-posed picture seems natural and comfortable, and that's why it's such a good picture. Same with some relationships. Key word being 'some', I understand that not all situations are the same, and what applies to one may not apply to another. I'm just trying to throw out some ideas.

 

[mickey]

blindinglights7:
If memory serves me correct, you mentioned you were 16 in another post. I had a quarter (if that) of your versatile perspective when I was 16 - you've got a fantastic adventure ahead of you. It's fascinating how you've drawn a parallel to photographs, because I've never really been fond of staged photography. Specifically related to what you wrote, it turns out that I am indeed guilty of assuming that your position was concrete - I should have inferred that you were suggesting some practical means of defining healthy relationships (ref: throw out some ideas). For this, I apologize in sincerity.

 

[blindinglights7]

blindinglights7:
If memory serves me correct, you mentioned you were 16 in another post. I had a quarter (if that) of your versatile perspective when I was 16 - you've got a fantastic adventure ahead of you. It's fascinating how you've drawn a parallel to photographs, because I've never really been fond of staged photography. Specifically related to what you wrote, it turns out that I am indeed guilty of assuming that your position was concrete - I should have inferred that you were suggesting some practical means of defining healthy relationships (ref: throw out some ideas). For this, I apologize in sincerity.

Wow. I really don't know what to say! Mickey, you've been sooo nice... there should be more people like you on interference. First of all, there really isn't a need to apologize, but that's so thoughtful. We're all intitled to and asked for our opinions, and you were just stating yours. Plus, it's kind of hard to read into things online sometimes, because of the fact that you don't know the person and what exactly they're thinking. Secondly, thanks for reading into my perspective! (did you check out my 'thesis' on Zooropa over in your thread in It's A Musical Journey? )

Anyways, back on topic... relationships. Girlhappy, you were pretty vague in your post, which is okay, but what exactly did you mean when you were talking about 'independence'? (If it's a personal thing you don't want to share, it's fine, you don't have to.)

 

[Acrobat_Al]

Friendship is:

-Not feel jealous when the other person is happy or with success, and you want the other person to grow (in every sense)
-Speak always with the truth, no matter what...

 

[BonosBaby12]

Friendship is:

-Not feel jealous when the other person is happy or with success, and you want the other person to grow (in every sense)
-Speak always with the truth, no matter what...

Very well said

I have always told my friends that I would rather have them hurt me with the truth. That way I know they really care instead of telling me a bunch of lies. For in the end it's the lying that is going to hurt me and our friendship the most in many ways.

 

[girlhappy]

Anyways, back on topic... relationships. Girlhappy, you were pretty vague in your post, which is okay, but what exactly did you mean when you were talking about 'independence'? (If it's a personal thing you don't want to share, it's fine, you don't have to.)

First off, i think i wasnt clear enough.Most people automatically think of relationship when it comes to independence. But, i meant more general. I dont know...maybe beacase i am emotionally demanding- meaning...i need tons of emotions

So, that includes all relations. Maybe i just dont feel right emotional security,,maybe i am not sure that i am loved enough.
But, i am trying to give no matter what. On the more practical note i meant...i never do things like:go to the movies alone, etc.
I prefer to spend my days in company. And yes, i think that is natural in the sense....we all need each other, right?
I dont kno,,,seems to me i sound ever more confused

 

[blindinglights7]

hmmmm... emotional security.

Being socially secure usually comes from being secure with yourself in the first place. Of course, I suppose there are some people whoare socially secure without being secure with themselves, but I think that's pretty rare, so I won't worry about that right now. I know what you mean about doing things on your own-- I don't usually go places or do things by myself. For example, if I'm meeting one of my friends for coffee or something, I won't actually go in until I know my friend is there. Just out of fear of being alone.

we all need each other, right?

In a way, we all depend on each other... I don't think I could function without social interaction, but that's just me. I know there are some people who can stand isolation, but I'm not one of them.

 

[girlhappy]

"Why did you give me so much desire, When there is nowhere I can go to offload this desire?
And why did you give me so much love in a loveless world, When there is no one I can turn to
To unlock all this love?" i just listened Morrisey latest album the other day, and sometimes this words fits perfectly into my life
Its called "I have forgiven the Jesus".I know this is u2 forum menaing ..bright and hopefull, but sometimes even u2 are suspicious...like on POP

 

[blindinglights7]

but sometimes even u2 are suspicious...like on POP

A lot of U2 lyrics can be interpreted as very dark...

POP

 

[girlhappy]

You dont like POP?I didnt like it but now...when i think of the songs like Gone, Please, Mofo,..i think they are great actually.It reminds me of my concert in Sarajevo 97.
But how about Zooropa,and Achtung baby?
I like Zooropa...i dont think many people like that album.But i just had enough of Uncertainty as a guiding light in my real life, i suppose

 

[blindinglights7]

You dont like POP?I didnt like it but now...when i think of the songs like Gone, Please, Mofo,..i think they are great actually.It reminds me of my concert in Sarajevo 97.
But how about Zooropa,and Achtung baby?
I like Zooropa...i dont think many people like that album.

No, I absolutely love Pop!!! (Hence the )


Achtung Baby is probably the album I listen to most...


Zooropa. Is. Amazing. I only got Zooropa about a month ago (which is quite a shame, but I have been progressively building my cd collection ) At first I didn't really know what to think, but the more I listen to it the more it grows on me.

-------------

But i just had enough of Uncertainty as a guiding light in my real life, i suppose

Is that referencing this relationship situation? Or am I reading into that wrong...

 

[girlhappy]

Oh, maybe you should listen to Boy and October because they were at your age and in early 20s when they made these two albums......these are my favourites although i am 30
Boy...i can ALWAYS find myself in all that. It is the closest and strongest than anything to me. I feel like i grew up in Dublin with them The atmosphere in early 80s (when i was a little girl,).. it was really something else. It was somewhat out of this world. And that feelings of innocence, joy, confusion, trying.... Oh, i guess i am still not out of adolescence in a way):
As for October..there is so much pure faith that i can hardly believe it exist EVERY TIME i hear it again. I cant believe that anyone can make something like that. It is amazing. That is something that will always fascinate me.
When i was at ZOOtv concert in Verona i was 20, lost and confused. That is other thing that will always fascinate me. I felt like the problems of the whole world and your private things were on that screens and it was the most powerfull experience ever (exept for watching Red rocks on DVD). Yes, Zooropa was able to express ANYTHING. The bottom line is Uncertainty can be your guiding light i believe. How hard is that? Yes, you should exept that uncertainy and just go on...because there is no safety in relations, in life...i believe that u2 think that God is the only "thing" you can rely on. Zooropa, Actung baby ,Pop are full of questions, suspicion and uncertainty but i think their faith is always the same. When i came to the ZOO tv concert i was crazy in love with early u2 and i was shocked when i saw the show. But, beneath all of the irony and show/concept-like concert you could clearly see Bonos heart. I am sorry, i was carried away...memories....

 

[blindinglights7]

I don't have Boy yet ... that and War are the only ones left!

I am sorry, i was carried away...memories....

Oh, memories are great. I saw the Vertigo Tour in Chicago last September. I wish I could remember more from that night though. It's almost like the whole thing was a dream... an amazing dream, but still, it would be even more amazing if I could remember it.

 

[girlhappy]

How do you mean you dont remeber? Vertigo didnt impress me exept for hearing Electric Co. but still...

 

[joyfulgirl]

Interesting...I've been having the same questions. I feel like my best friend has recently dumped me because he got a boyfriend. It's been very hurtful and confusing and now I'm not sure where I fit in and what the appropriate boundaries are. I've never had this happen before. Before he got a boyfriend he was a bit needy with me, very demanding of my attention, constantly making dramatic statements like how I'm his favorite person in the world and I'm like family. This went on for years. Then he got a boyfriend and I feel completely left out. I understand that with a new relationship people can disappear for awhile but then when the newness and excitement of the new relationship has worn off, they tend to get back on track with their friends. Also, with other friends with whom I've had certain "rituals" (like, Wednesday nights with one friend, or always watching "Survivor" with another, etc.), those didn't change when one of us got involved. But with my best friend, they did. The things we've always done together for years he just stopped doing with me. Instead of either honoring those things with me or just bringing in the boyfriend (who I really really like and would like to spend more time with) to do them with us, he simply stopped doing those things with me and now does them with his boyfriend. He doesn't understand why I have a problem with that.

So sorry I'm not much help, girlhappy, but I'm just having the same issues.

 

[girlhappy]

He is a gay, right? i have some male friends who are gay. I am not saying they are all the same, because i must tell you i had the very same experience with a lot of my female friends. I dont know what is this...I have always thought the more you love, the more you live...meaning...Love is not selfish thing.I t is about giving. So, in my opinion, the people (our "friends) dont have a clear picture about love. They think they should grab it and keep it for themselves...because of the fear of losing it. It is quite opposite. I think the more you really love you are more willing to give and SHARE. Love is about sharing, right? I can tell you, a lot of my love nad care didnt come back to me.But i dont regret it.
I had the same situations with people who got the new jobs(i dont have a job at the moment). I gave a lot of comfort to them when i was working and they were jobless. But ,never mind that either. I completely understand the thing about ritauls and how much they mean to you! And my answer is:true friendship will continue no matter what. Beacase that kind of friendship is above the circumstances and using people for your needs. It can be somewhat higher in my opinion. Maybe i am idealist and always will be, but i believe the more you are willing to care for others and be "one " with them - you are on the higher mind-level. At the same time here is the question of self protection. And how to recognize the person who is "worth" enough to be trusted. I am wearing my heart on my sleeve - type , so i guess it is easier for someone who has "natural" self - protection. I"d still like to go through the barricade, i am still for the opening your heart, comapassion, sharing. That will never change. Question is: will i ever find my soulmate in that sense? i guess im not much help either, joyful girl. Just thought i"d share.

 

[blindinglights7]

He is a gay, right? i have some male friends who are gay. I am not saying they are all the same, because i must tell you i had the very same experience with a lot of my female friends. I dont know what is this...I have always thought the more you love, the more you live...meaning...Love is not selfish thing.I t is about giving. So, in my opinion, the people (our "friends) dont have a clear picture about love. They think they should grab it and keep it for themselves...because of the fear of losing it. It is quite opposite. I think the more you really love you are more willing to give and SHARE. Love is about sharing, right? I can tell you, a lot of my love nad care didnt come back to me.But i dont regret it.

I also feel like I give a lot, but a lot of the time it's not given back to me. I don't know if my "friends" aren't grabbing and keeping my love, or if they are and just not reciprocating. For awhile now I've been very left in the dark about where my relationships stand...

I guess I'll tell you a little about my experiences. When I was younger (i.e. elementary and jr. high) I had a LOT of friends. And I valued friendship more than anything. I couldn't imagine life without my huge group of friends. But things have changed now. We've grown up and sort of grown apart. Now I don't really know where I fit in. I have different groups of friends. I have my band friends, I have my winterguard/colorguard friends, I have my 'school' friends (meaning, I'm friends with them because I have classes with them), I have my friends that I've known for what seems like forever, . But I think there's a big problem. I am "friends" with so many groups of people, but because of that I'm not an essential part of any group. For example, I sit with my winterguard friends at lunch, but I usually feel on the outside. The only thing I have in common with them is that we practice together for 6 hours a week. They go off and do their own stuff, like shopping and going out to eat, without me. It's like that with every group. It seems that the groups are bonding with each other, but I'm out of the loop. So now, I'm not really sure who I'm friends with. I feel like a tag-along. And I feel like I don't even have a social life anymore, because everybody does stuff without me. So, I'm not sure if they just hang around me because they feel sorry for me, or because they actually value my frienship. In this sense, I definitely feel like I'm giving away and not getting anything back.

--------------------

How do you mean you dont remeber? Vertigo didnt impress me exept for hearing Electric Co. but still...

I can't really explain. I guess the only other way I can try to explain it is relating it to being drunk. Now, of course, I've never been drunk, but I'm just trying to get my point across. I just can't remember exactly what happened that night. Like, when I printed off the setlist the next day, I didn't remember that a couple of songs were played. Things like that. I hope that "being drunk" analogy sort of helps...

 

[girlhappy]

I am sorry to hear that, blindinglights. The thing is...you are so young! When you get older maybe you"ll find some really good friends. Because when i was at your age, i had 4 superfriends, and now its all gone. I have new friends and all that, but maybe it is better that you are more aware to be careful about people.
As for your friends at this point.... i dont know. I think that you probably have too many circles of friends around you. It is more about quality than quantity i guess.You just better choose some people you like and start to build relatonships with them. Maybe they also feel like you are popular everywhere and you dont need their friendship. People often dont see whats beneath the surface. I would try to become closer to people who seem most interesting to you. I know it takes time and effort, but maybe its better to have 2 good friends than 5 circles of "friends". Show them that you really care and that you want to spend your time with some of them. I hope this help a bit

 

[girlhappy]

I am sorry to hear that, blindinglights. The thing is...you are so young! When you get older maybe you"ll find some really good friends. Because when i was at your age, i had 4 superfriends, and now its all gone. I have new friends and all that, but maybe it is better that you are more aware to be careful about people.
As for your friends at this point.... i dont know. I think that you probably have too many circles of friends around you. It is more about quality than quantity i guess.You just better choose some people you like and start to build relatonships with them. Maybe they also feel like you are popular everywhere and you dont need their friendship. People often dont see whats beneath the surface. I would try to become closer to people who seem most interesting to you. I know it takes time and effort, but maybe its better to have 2 good friends than 5 circles of "friends". Show them that you really care and that you want to spend your time with some of them. I hope this helps a bit

 

[blindinglights7]

I think that you probably have too many circles of friends around you. It is more about quality than quantity i guess.

I've never thought about it that way... Good observation! I love how getting opinions from other people helps so much. A different perspective brings in different ideas.

I guess one thing I've learned in life is: people are dependent on people. We literally could not survive without other people. Well, maybe the word isn't so much dependent as codependent. There is a natural balance of dependancy in the world... And it's vital to all parts of life: physical and emotional. Just as an example in a general situation: Kids are dependent on their parents to meet their physical needs, like food and shelter. Their parents are dependent on their jobs to make money to provide for their kids. Their jobs are dependent on all of society, who decides if a business is going to survive. Kids are also dependent on their friends for their emotional needs. They need someone their age to talk to, play with, and socialize with. In turn, in that friendship, the other kid is also dependent on the friendship. It has this balance. So, I guess to a certain degree we are all dependent on each other, but when we infringe upon the boundaries of natural dependence is where we can get into trouble...

Sorry, I'm just trying to think out loud and make sense of these things...

 

[girlhappy]

:

. So, I guess to a certain degree we are all dependent on each other, but when we infringe upon the boundaries of natural dependence is where we can get into trouble...

I dont quite understand what youre trying to say..... I agree about dependency. Its all right to admit that people need other people. And some people have a problem with that!

 

[blindinglights7]

I'm not really sure either...

But, it's something like this. There are those natural dependencies. And it's supposed to be that way, because they naturally occur. The ones we have trouble with are the dependencies we create ourselves. I'm not saying that there aren't problems with those natural dependencies though...

I don't know. It all seems contradictory. And maybe it's not even an accurate statement or opinion.

 

[JMScoopy]

there is no such thing as true friendship. if found this out the hard way.

 

[girlhappy]

there is no such thing as true friendship. if found this out the hard way.

Why do you think so?