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Old 07-28-2009, 03:44 PM   #166
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Old 07-28-2009, 03:46 PM   #167
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No thanks

Maybe I'd have a beer with you at the White House though. Sam Adams.
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Old 07-28-2009, 03:59 PM   #168
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Old 07-28-2009, 04:03 PM   #169
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Then I could ditch you and look at the President's cute smile. As long as he doesn't wear the Mom jeans.
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Old 07-28-2009, 05:58 PM   #170
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I can see the beer summit

f
a
i
l
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n
g
.

<>
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:00 PM   #171
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Quote:
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I can see the beer summit

f
a
i
l
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n
g
.
And what exactly would make it a success?
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:09 PM   #172
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I am not saying it will fail.


But the other two need the officer more than he needs them.


What does the officer need to do?

Apologize for all of the racial profiling of the past that he has not been a part of? Apologize for supporting and leading a program to prevent it?

Will Gates apologize for bringing 'race' into the issue when it was not introduced by the officers on the scene?








hint:
could the teachable moment be to not blow things out of porportion and blame parties for actions done by others in the past ?
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:20 PM   #173
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I doubt Obama has his heart set on achieving some kind of dramatic resolution, let alone forcing one. Just a situation where the two of them can sit down and look each other in the eye again, in a less charged environment. And a PR gesture on his part towards defusing some of the 'ratcheting up' of tensions which he already acknowledged his role in.

But I don't envy him the task, because obviously they're both still sticking pretty hard to their own versions of the incident, including the diametrically opposed points. Maybe there are ways to avoid directly touching on those particular aspects, but I doubt it.
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:23 PM   #174
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In an interview with CNN's Larry King, former Secretary of State Colin Powell suggested that both the Cambridge police and Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates were to blame for last week's incident.

Saying he has suffered from racial profiling "many times," the general suggested that Gates could have handled the situation differently. He urged young people confronted by the police to "cooperate. Don't make the situation more difficult."

Powell later added, "Do you get angry? Yes. Do you manifest that anger? You protest, you try to get things fixed, but it's kind of a better course of action to take it easy and don't let your anger make the current situation worse.


The full exchange on Gates:

KING: You're saying Gates was wrong?


POWELL: I'm saying that Skip, perhaps in this instance, might have waited a while, come outside, talked to the officer, and that might have been the end of it. I think he should have reflected on whether or not this was the time to make that big a deal. But, he's just home from China, just home from New York. All he wanted to do was get to bed.

His door was jammed. And so he was in a mood where...

KING: What about those who say he brings the whole history into that body of a black movement?


(CROSSTALK)

POWELL: That may well be the case. But I still think that it might well have been resolved in a different manner if we didn't have this verbal altercation between the two of them.

So, my first teaching point for young people, especially, not for Dr. Gates, that the young people, especially, is, when the police are looking into something, and if you're involved in it in one way or another, cooperate. Don't make the situation more difficult. And I think in this case, the situation was made more difficult.

And you could part on the part of the Cambridge Police Department. Once they felt they had to bring Dr. Gates out of the house and to handcuff him, I would have thought at that point some adult supervision would have stepped in and said, OK, look, it is his house. Come on, let's not take this any further. Take the handcuffs off. Goodnight, Dr. Gates.

And on racial profiling:

KING: Were you ever racially profiled?


POWELL: Yes, many times.

KING: And didn't you ever bring anger to it?

POWELL: Of course. But, you know, anger is best controlled. And sure I got mad.

I got mad when I, as a national security adviser to the president of the United States, I went down to meet somebody at Reagan National Airport and nobody recognized -- nobody thought I could possibly be the national security adviser to the president. I was just a black guy at Reagan National Airport.

And it was only when I went up to the counter and said, "Is my guest here who's waiting for me?" did somebody say, "Oh, you're General Powell." It was inconceivable to him that a black guy could be the national security adviser.

KING: How do you deal with things like that?

POWELL: You just suck it up. What are you going to do? It was a teaching point for him. Yes, I'm the national security adviser, I'm black. And watch, I can do the job. So, you have this kind of -- there is no African-American in this country who has not been exposed to this kind of situation.

Do you get angry? Yes. Do you manifest that anger? You protest, you try to get things fixed, but it's kind of a better course of action to take it easy and don't let your anger make the current situation worse.
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:32 PM   #175
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So, my first teaching point for young people, especially, not for Dr. Gates, that the young people, especially, is, when the police are looking into something, and if you're involved in it in one way or another, cooperate. Don't make the situation more difficult. And I think in this case, the situation was made more difficult.

And you could part on the part of the Cambridge Police Department. Once they felt they had to bring Dr. Gates out of the house and to handcuff him, I would have thought at that point some adult supervision would have stepped in and said, OK, look, it is his house. Come on, let's not take this any further. Take the handcuffs off. Goodnight, Dr. Gates.
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:35 PM   #176
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I don't doubt for one minute that Gates has not suffered (probably hundreds of times) indignities solely because he is Black American.

If he was jogging through the park early in the morning and some person called and said a black man is running fast he must have committed a crime go pick him up and they did, that would be racial profiling.

The officer taking the call is supposed to say. Ain't no crime to be black and running. Did you see him do anything illegal?


To taint the officer as some kind of a problem officer is not justified, unless there is something I am missing. I can not see what the teachable moment is for the officer.

I have been threatened with 'arrest' for challenging the authority of law enforcement. I stepped down and took what I considered to be the wrong attitude from the officer.
I realized their job was a little harder than my job. That was me being requested to be a little less me until they left.
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:48 PM   #177
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And you could part on the part of the Cambridge Police Department. Once they felt they had to bring Dr. Gates out of the house and to handcuff him, I would have thought at that point some adult supervision would have stepped in and said, OK, look, it is his house. Come on, let's not take this any further. Take the handcuffs off. Goodnight, Dr. Gates.


This is the part where they want to make the law enforcement officers, wrong.
and I believe there were more than just the one guy there. Only one name goes on the arrest report, as the arresting officer. So everyone is focusing on him.
Well, as I have said I have been told by law enforcement to step down or face arrest. I have seen this dozens of times. Once the warned person blows through that warning the officers goes through with the cuffs and the arrest.
If not, the warned person feels emboldened and continues to escalate because the officer has no credibility.
Gates was in controll of his destiny. He chose to challenge and suffered the consequences.

Powells advice is the same as mine. When someone has a gun and the power to arrest you do not challenge them. If you believe you are wronged file a complaint, later.
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Old 07-28-2009, 06:51 PM   #178
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The 'teachable moment' for the officer would be that it's A) unprofessional and B) almost certainly unconstitutional as well to arrest someone merely for mouthing off at you. It doesn't mean that he's a "problem officer" in general; each situation is unique, and there may've been something about this one which caused him to let himself go over the edge in a way that's extremely unlikely for him to repeat.
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Old 07-28-2009, 07:07 PM   #179
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I don't doubt for one minute that Gates has not suffered (probably hundreds of times) indignities solely because he is Black American.

If he was jogging through the park early in the morning and some person called and said a black man is running fast he must have committed a crime go pick him up and they did, that would be racial profiling.

The officer taking the call is supposed to say. Ain't no crime to be black and running. Did you see him do anything illegal?


To taint the officer as some kind of a problem officer is not justified, unless there is something I am missing. I can not see what the teachable moment is for the officer.

I have been threatened with 'arrest' for challenging the authority of law enforcement. I stepped down and took what I considered to be the wrong attitude from the officer.
I realized their job was a little harder than my job. That was me being requested to be a little less me until they left.

Well put. Unfortunately the "acted stupidly" comment will be very influential on many young black americans who may already have a negative bias toward cops.
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Old 07-28-2009, 07:12 PM   #180
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I am not a big fan of mouthing off to Police... concept
what is the point, how can they do their job without the support of the public?


And there are disorderly conduct laws, some people refer them as 'contempt of cop' laws.

I do realize if the Police drive through certain parts of town,
youths on street corners may yell at them. I would not expect them to stop and arrest them. I did expect them to arrest me when they told me if I continued they would.


Police have the power and right "to arrest".
Not everyone arrested is guilty of any thing. After the arrest they are arraigned and it is determined if they will be charged with a crime

being arrested and not charged is a hassle I would prefer to avoid.
at the price of not mouthing off to police.


The fact that the Police came because a neighbor saw two men trying to force a door open should have led Mr. Gates to be more understanding.
Again unless there is something I am missing. If defference has to be given to one side, right now I have to go with the Police.

It is not like he was driving in a 'white neighborhood' and they pulled him over for being black.
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