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Old 01-30-2009, 01:13 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by BonosSaint View Post
Most of us evangelize about stuff that's important to us whether people want to hear it or not. We just call it something else.
Excellent point.

I push my friends into listening to U2.
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:28 AM   #92
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Believers are the ones for coexistence.


We all know atheists don't believe in anything.


How do you know what someone else believes in.


I hope some day people would finally stop judging someone who doesn't believe the same as they do.
I may be an atheist, but I have plenty of things I believe in. And we don't murder people or start wars for what we believe in.

Atheists believe more in coexistance than you will ever understand.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 01-30-2009, 07:10 AM   #93
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I believe in Oasisism - its the only way forward
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Old 01-30-2009, 07:37 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Galeongirl View Post


How do you know what someone else believes in.


I hope some day people would finally stop judging someone who doesn't believe the same as they do.
I may be an atheist, but I have plenty of things I believe in. And we don't murder people or start wars for what we believe in.

Atheists believe more in coexistance than you will ever understand.

Oh, that's just deep being deep.

He's not a religious person either.
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Old 01-30-2009, 07:42 AM   #95
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Don't worry, I would.
But I think that may be because you are, in fact my brother, and this whole Aussie thing is just a cover


Just kidding. . .it's just that your particular approach to non-belief is so similar to my brother's sometimes, I swear I want to ask: "Vince . . .is that you?"

Seriously, though, I'd happily engage some of the questions you raised, but somehow I'm not sure I'd be listened to. It sounds like you've already made up your mind. . .which is fine too, but I don't really feel like I need to challenge atheists on their lack of faith. Sometimes I think unbelief is a better place to be than to be a certain kind of believer.
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Old 01-30-2009, 08:16 AM   #96
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Oh, that's just deep being deep.

He's not a religious person either.
It was an explicit reference to my position that atheists are not defined by any particular beliefs, and I struggle to come up with any common features that atheists embrace in the same way that Christians do with Christ's divinity or Muslims do for Mohammed's claims of revelation.

Seriously, a nonbeliever could just as easily be a new ager, nihilist, positivist or dialectical materialist.

I may believe certain things to be likely true without any good cause, but I doubt that those are because I am an atheist. There are very few convictions that I hold with the same type of faith that people mean by religious, I honestly can't see any good reasons for the existence of any God; a personal God doesn't match what we know, a creative intelligence running the universe is beyond what we can possible know (at the moment). I can say that to assume a creative intelligence is as likely as a naturalistic mechanism of cosmogeny is problematic because it creates an infinite regress by creating the problem of where that initial complexity came from.

Agnosticism was not designed to be fence sitting, T.H. Huxley was adamant that theological claims fell into the domain of empiricism and should be treated sceptically, a rigorous approach to supernatural claims which pitches agnosticism in the same sort of domain as most atheists. He was also very polite about his own unbelief to the point of bending over backwards to the religious mainstream, a staunch victorian evangelical who couldn't believe in the supernatural, I suspect that being cautiously reserved has advantages in some social situations.
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Old 01-30-2009, 08:35 AM   #97
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Haha, an excuse for your actions?

Some of the replies to this thread sound pretty ethnocentric. I'm South Korean and my ancestors were all Buddhists. Somehow, somewhere my family converted to Christianity.
I noticed that there aren't as many "religion wars" over there. My parents tell me that in comparison to America (the only other nation they've lived in, haha), Korea seems to be much more understanding towards each others faiths.
I'm not singling out other regions around the globe, but I just wanted to point out that maybe we're asking all the wrong questions here. It isn't the existence of God that we should be flustered over, but rather why we can't be accepting and understanding of each other and each others beliefs.



Oh, and yes. I guess your question has been answered, iron horse... there seem to be many Christians here.
I have no problem accepting other peoples right to believe, and respecting that, but I reserve the right to defend my position against the slanderous ideas that atheists are immoral, backstabbing, unprincipled, and hopeless.

When people start talking about what makes their particular religion so excellent there is a tendency to imply that without a belief in God the world is less interesting, less exiting, less wonderful; I feel that natural theology degrades the natural world, transforming the wonderfully bizarre and complicated into a conduit for the very human idea of an artificer.

I can hold a fossil in my hand, look at the information impressed into the rock, and envisage millions of years of persistent change, leading back to an animal living in a very different world. The satisfaction of being able to justify this vastness and our insignificance with accumulated fact adds a dimension which I just can't see in man made religion.

There is more than enough around us to provoke the spiritual experience, unbelievers shouldn't let themselves be mischaracterised by a wide range of supernaturalists; we have a perfectly reasonable position, and the fact that people are beginning to enunciate it (after a decent enough period of marginalisation) is a good thing.
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Old 01-30-2009, 08:37 AM   #98
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But I think that may be because you are, in fact my brother, and this whole Aussie thing is just a cover


Just kidding. . .it's just that your particular approach to non-belief is so similar to my brother's sometimes, I swear I want to ask: "Vince . . .is that you?"

Seriously, though, I'd happily engage some of the questions you raised, but somehow I'm not sure I'd be listened to. It sounds like you've already made up your mind. . .which is fine too, but I don't really feel like I need to challenge atheists on their lack of faith. Sometimes I think unbelief is a better place to be than to be a certain kind of believer.
I wouldn't expect you to, although from a strategic standpoint appealing to peoples emotions is an area of rhetoric that atheists ought to employ more frequently; it definitely is not a position which requires the existence of bad theology for contrast.
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Old 01-30-2009, 11:22 AM   #99
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Seriously, a nonbeliever could just as easily be a new ager, nihilist, positivist or dialectical materialist.

With atheism, and pretty much all religions, skepticism will always be there. That's partially the reason for an atheist's denial of a superior being aka God. I think you mentioned before that Christians pick and choose what parts they want to apply into their lives. I, too, think that's true. Haha, I rhymed.

I also agree with you saying that a nonbeliever can be any character even if they don't believe in God or religion, but this applies to Christians too.
Just because Christians believe in something greater, does not mean that they don't think about the other end of the spectrum (unfortunately, some do... and that is a critical part of this whole "pushing religion" dilemma). For some individuals, their strength in faith developed from their previous belief that religion is inconclusive.

(None of what I said should be taken personally. Just to reiterate: this is all my opinion! )
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Old 01-30-2009, 11:54 AM   #100
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I'm here. I'm a Christian, but I don't visit Interference, or I should say, FYM, as much as I used to. I enjoy the discussions I've had and can say I've grown in my faith a lot here. There's some cool people here — and yes, I'm including many who disagree with me.
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Old 01-30-2009, 12:00 PM   #101
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I have nothing against atheist.
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Old 01-30-2009, 12:14 PM   #102
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On my bookshelf, I have a copy each of the Holy Bible, The Torah, the Holy Qur'an and The Teachings Of The Compassionate Buddha. All have helped me with my spiritual journey. My choice of course. I respect everyone else choice.

And yes, many Christians do read other holy books.

You would be surprised at how much alike, these four belief systems are.
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Old 01-30-2009, 12:17 PM   #103
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You would be surprised at how much alike, these four belief systems are.
There are many similarities, which is great, but the differences are huge.
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Old 01-30-2009, 12:18 PM   #104
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Most of us evangelize about stuff that's important to us whether people want to hear it or not. We just call it something else.

I think that's the best post in this thread
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Old 01-30-2009, 12:25 PM   #105
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Same here!
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