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Old 11-15-2012, 11:22 AM   #241
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Yikes, Aygo. What you described does sound scary.

I'm starting to keep an eye on Europe because a few weeks ago, the IMF released a report saying the euro troubles could lead to another global recession next year. Just what the world needs....
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:45 AM   #242
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Yikes, Aygo. What you described does sound scary.

I'm starting to keep an eye on Europe because a few weeks ago, the IMF released a report saying the euro troubles could lead to another global recession next year. Just what the world needs....
Going over the fiscal cliff (and not quickly rectifying things) plus Europe could be a disaster, and for the developing world was well. China's exports would be in serious trouble. Going over the fiscal cliff would mean putting the US in something like what Europe has gone through. But nobody in the US wants that to happen; everyone knows it would be a disaster. It's further evidence that austerity is economically disastrous.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:58 AM   #243
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I heard that DIMAR rejected the new austerity measures leaving PASOK and Nea Democratia alone (who expelled deputees who also voted against it).
To me it would indicate that this coalition government will not last long, which means that you'll have elections soon again.

Just please don't tell me you will vote for Chrysi Avgi or in the culprits of your situation (PASOK and Nea Democratia) in these probable next elections if you have the legal age to vote.

Everyone says that Portugal is a different case, a successful case, but everything I see is the exact same movie I watched in Greece, only 18 months late in each episode. I'm scared.
I would NEVER vote for CHRYSI AVGI or Pasok and NEA Dimocratia!!!About Chrysi Avgi???There is only one word to describe it.TERRORISTS!!! Most people of my age are acting so stupid.They all support Chrisy Avgi because they think that they are doing something clever and cool,when they actually do the excact opposite!!! I don't know if anyone saw this but there is a video on Youtube with one member of Chrysi Avgi that slappes a member of an other party.That is just off limits!!! And do you know what annoys me the most???That even though so many people had problems with their buissness because of this party so many people still vote for them!!!
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:00 PM   #244
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Yikes, Aygo. What you described does sound scary.

I'm starting to keep an eye on Europe because a few weeks ago, the IMF released a report saying the euro troubles could lead to another global recession next year. Just what the world needs....
The most recent data says that:

Germany's economy is cooling. The growth perspectives were redefined to only 0,2%, which means that they'll also enter into technical recession soon.
In Greece, the unemployment rate ascended to 25,1% and the recession was revised to -7% (30% total in 5 years). In France the scenario for the GDP growth is similar.
In Spain, the unemployment rate still is 25% and the cuts in the budget for the State funcions (education, health and social security mostly) are around €17000 million. In Portugal they want to do it in the same proportion in 2013: €4000 million.

In Portugal...
The initial forecast for the unemployment rate for 2012 was 12,9%. We're at 16%.
The initial forecast for the recession was -2,2%. Now the Bank of Portugal forecasts -3,4%.
The Goverment agreed with the troika (ECB, IMF, EU) a budget deficit of 4,5% for 2012. Yesterday, we found out that until June, our budget, instead of being reduced, it increased from 7,8% (total 2011) to 9% (until June 2012). The Government insists that they'll get to at least a 6% mark (I have no idea how).
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:02 PM   #245
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Going over the fiscal cliff (and not quickly rectifying things) plus Europe could be a disaster, and for the developing world was well. China's exports would be in serious trouble. Going over the fiscal cliff would mean putting the US in something like what Europe has gone through. But nobody in the US wants that to happen; everyone knows it would be a disaster. It's further evidence that austerity is economically disastrous.
In fact, China has already revised twice their growth perspectives for 2012 to lower values, exactly due to fall of the exports to Europe.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:08 PM   #246
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It's further evidence that austerity is economically disastrous.
Austerity itself isn't economically disastrous, but when a country is in or recovering from a recession it is not stimulating economic growth. But there are situations where that isn't disastrous (like when an economy is booming).

The difficulty for some countries in Europe (like Greece, Spain, Portugal) is that austerity measures are a necessity. For governments to spend money (for instance, for stimulating an economy) they first need to have it, or at least be able to borrow it. And it's currently difficult for them to attract money on the regular capital markets for a decent interest rate. Hence the many painful measures, to gain back confidence of the markets and be able to get lower interest rates.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:11 PM   #247
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I would NEVER vote for CHRYSI AVGI or Pasok and NEA Dimocratia!!!About Chrysi Avgi???There is only one word to describe it.TERRORISTS!!! Most people of my age are acting so stupid.They all support Chrisy Avgi because they think that they are doing something clever and cool,when they actually do the excact opposite!!! I don't know if anyone saw this but there is a video on Youtube with one member of Chrysi Avgi that slappes a member of an other party.That is just off limits!!! And do you know what annoys me the most???That even though so many people had problems with their buissness because of this party so many people still vote for them!!!
I saw that video. It was on a debate on tv, and the neonazi guy threw away a glass of water on the SYRIZA women and slapped the communist women, wasn't it? I remember that, the portuguese tv's broadcasted the video.
Before the two greek elections, I read things about Chrisy Avgi and... Hew, that's scaring. It just like the NSDAP (nazi party)! How did the greek constition allow the existance of a party like that?

I can figure out when you say that many young people in fact support Chrysi Avgi.
In fact, in Portugal I've been hearing a lot, for example, a hate discourse against gypsies and I'm afraid that they'll become our 1930's jews. I know that they don't want to integrate in the society and that many of them don't work and live of State's funds, but hell, I don't want a chase, a persecution after them because if they're not integrated, it's the State's fault (and in the end, the portuguese society's fault) who failed in its purpose. I go to the South of Spain and they're way much better socially integrated, it's very different.

Where can I find updated results for opinion polling for eventual elections in Greece?
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:26 PM   #248
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Austerity itself isn't economically disastrous, but when a country is in or recovering from a recession it is not stimulating economic growth. But there are situations where that isn't disastrous (like when an economy is booming).

The difficulty for some countries in Europe (like Greece, Spain, Portugal) is that austerity measures are a necessity. For governments to spend money (for instance, for stimulating an economy) they first need to have it, or at least be able to borrow it. And it's currently difficult for them to attract money on the regular capital markets for a decent interest rate. Hence the many painful measures, to gain back confidence of the markets and be able to get lower interest rates.
WRONG! Economical adjustments and rectifications are needed, yes. And that implies some intelligent cuts in certain areas of the State's budget, yes.
That's not the same as austerity.
You have not even one known case of success in economical recovery based in austerity in the recent world History.
I know that The Netherlands have been hand in hand with Germany in the imposition of these punishments to the PIIGS, but be prepared because it'll reach the Central Europe soon. We all followed similar policies and we all increased our public debts due to the same reason after 2008. It's a question of when.

The question of the financial markets is (sorry for the language use) pure shit.
The ECB is forbidden to lend money to the countries and can only do it to the banks.
The banks are getting money from the ECB at 0,75%(!!!).
The "bailouts" to the PIIGS had much higher interest rates. In Portugal's case it was 6% (average) but it was later revised to 4% (average). It still is much higher than the 0,75% offered to any private bank and much higher to the economic grown rates (which are, in fact, negative, recessive). Which means that we will never (be able to) pay that debt, specially these rates.
It's estimates, in the portuguese case that, 8% of the 2013 State Budget is only for interest rates. That's criminal it it should be severily punished.

Meanwhile, the german, french, dutch and british (among other) banks who had been buying greek, portuguese, spanish (and other) public debt with delicious interest rates, now are getting rid of those financial actives by the money they get from the ECB, which now they "lend" to these countries (and respective) banks at criminal interest rates.

So, when I hear that the german taxpayers are paying for us. It's a lie. We are paying for the recapitalization of their banks and for their insanities over years and years. And that explains why only in the first 9 months of 2012, the portuguese banks lost €22000 million that flew away to banks of these countries.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:26 PM   #249
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I saw that video. It was on a debate on tv, and the neonazi guy threw away a glass of water on the SYRIZA women and slapped the communist women, wasn't it? I remember that, the portuguese tv's broadcasted the video.
Before the two greek elections, I read things about Chrisy Avgi and... Hew, that's scaring. It just like the NSDAP (nazi party)! How did the greek constition allow the existance of a party like that?

I can figure out when you say that many young people in fact support Chrysi Avgi.
In fact, in Portugal I've been hearing a lot, for example, a hate discourse against gypsies and I'm afraid that they'll become our 1930's jews. I know that they don't want to integrate in the society and that many of them don't work and live of State's funds, but hell, I don't want a chase, a persecution after them because if they're not integrated, it's the State's fault (and in the end, the portuguese society's fault) who failed in its purpose. I go to the South of Spain and they're way much better socially integrated, it's very different.

Where can I find updated results for opinion polling for eventual elections in Greece?
That is excactly the video I am talking about.And I agree with this matter with the gypsies because as I know a simmilar matter concurnes Greece too.I am not sure at all actually,I might be wrong.

I don't have the slighttest idea about when are the next elections in Greece.But I am sure that with these people that we "call" our leaders we will very soon have.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:50 PM   #250
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That is excactly the video I am talking about.And I agree with this matter with the gypsies because as I know a simmilar matter concurnes Greece too.I am not sure at all actually,I might be wrong.

I don't have the slighttest idea about when are the next elections in Greece.But I am sure that with these people that we "call" our leaders we will very soon have.
Do you think there's the eminence of a Coup D'État that turns Greece into a "regime of Coronels" again?

The video is that Philisedge is talking about is this one, for those who haven't seen it:
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:02 PM   #251
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Do you think there's the eminence of a Coup D'État that turns Greece into a "regime of Coronels" again?
I am not quite sure.Well,I hope not.I think that Greeks won't allow that.This country has gone through many difficulties,wars and took some great and some awefull decisions at the same time,but I don't think that they will make such an (sorry for my excprations)idiot decision.You know,this question that you just made is perfect for tomorrow,because for the next three days Greece celebrates
the Polytechnic uprising.I don't know if you are fammiliar with it,but it has to do with dictatorship in Greece almost 37 years ago.Irrony,huh?
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:07 PM   #252
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I am not quite sure.Well,I hope not.I think that Greeks won't allow that.This country has gone through many difficulties,wars and took some great and some awefull decisions at the same time,but I don't think that they will make such an (sorry for my excprations)idiot decision.You know,this question that you just made is perfect for tomorrow,because for the next three days Greece celebrates
the Polytechnic uprising.I don't know if you are fammiliar with it,but it has to do with dictatorship in Greece almost 37 years ago.Irrony,huh?
I never heard about it. Maybe The Polytechnic uprising is similar to the "Carnation Revolution" of 38 years ago, celebrated each April 25th, no?
Is it the date that you celebrate the end of the military dictatorship?
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:17 PM   #253
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I never heard about it. Maybe The Polytechnic uprising is similar to the "Carnation Revolution" of 38 years ago, celebrated each April 25th, no?
Is it the date that you celebrate the end of the military dictatorship?
I think so.I haven't actually heard of the Carnation Revolution,but it is a kind of the end of the military dictatorship.If you ever heard of the name "Metaxas"(not the drink) who was the principal of Greece allmost 70 years ago(and also a HUGE dictator) then I think you might understand what I mean.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:30 PM   #254
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I think so.I haven't actually heard of the Carnation Revolution,but it is a kind of the end of the military dictatorship.If you ever heard of the name "Metaxas"(not the drink) who was the principal of Greece allmost 70 years ago(and also a HUGE dictator) then I think you might understand what I mean.
I've never heard about it, but I guess I'm going to search more about it. It seems that our countries have a lot in common. Metaxas is probably the similar to Salazar's Estado Novo dictatorship (1926-1974). Maybe there's even more in common then what I'd suppose.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:50 PM   #255
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I've never heard about it, but I guess I'm going to search more about it. It seems that our countries have a lot in common. Metaxas is probably the similar to Salazar's Estado Novo dictatorship (1926-1974). Maybe there's even more in common then what I'd suppose.
You're right.I just searched the internet in order to find information.My father was sitting next to me and I asked him wether he ever heard of him.He actually heard a man named like this but it was one other person that he was talking about,maybe a member of his family.Metaxas and Salazar Estado Novo are similar to each other.Who knows,maybe they knew each other back then because it seems like they were leaving in the same period of life.I know that during that period Metaxas was cooperating with other politicians from other countries. Anyway,we can surely understand that dictatorship is simmilar to hell,so let just hope that we will never go back there!!!
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