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Old 06-09-2009, 01:19 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
Your thuggish attitude towards free speech is disturbing, perhaps you could systematically list the reasons why the BNP platform is wrong before throwing them in prison.
My thuggish attitude is born of a fear that this party will become a fascist regime, their success so far mirrors the Nazi party's ascendancy to government exactly and yes, I'd do anything in my power to prevent that. Perhaps you don't quite realise what a threat the BNP pose, not to democracy but to people? Yes, I would've systematically listed every wrong they've done, but I presumed most European people reading this thread already knew.
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Old 06-09-2009, 01:20 PM   #32
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Besides a lot of the die hard BNP followers are neo nazis and former Apartheid supporters.
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Old 06-09-2009, 01:33 PM   #33
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Where do you people stand on the Peace Process ?

NF and BNP are different. The BNP are trying to become a legitimate party. More Anti democracy protests in London today.
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Old 06-09-2009, 02:05 PM   #34
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I presumed most European people reading this thread already knew.
Not all of us are European here. I know plenty of Americans who are following the EU elections closely and are stunned by what happened.

As for me, while I am a bit concerned that the BNP is gaining momentum, I do think it is a natural reaction to the extremism coming from the immigrants in the UK. I've seen videos of radical Muslims in London bashing the UK, saying they are going to turn the country into an Islamic state. It may be a small minority doing that, but it is a disturbing minority.

I don't think denying the BNP free speech is the answer; it will only intensify their following because they'll see themselves as being persecuted.
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Old 06-09-2009, 02:38 PM   #35
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Not all of us are European here. I know plenty of Americans who are following the EU elections closely and are stunned by what happened.

As for me, while I am a bit concerned that the BNP is gaining momentum, I do think it is a natural reaction to the extremism coming from the immigrants in the UK. I've seen videos of radical Muslims in London bashing the UK, saying they are going to turn the country into an Islamic state. It may be a small minority doing that, but it is a disturbing minority.

I don't think denying the BNP free speech is the answer; it will only intensify their following because they'll see themselves as being persecuted.


I've always held that view - until now, and I'm just not sure. Putting them on the television and giving them a voice seems to have only legitimised them in the public eye. If they weren't given that voice then they would eventually crumble as the National Front did - but now they stand a chance of having power. Well, they already have it, they have a voice in the EU. They're representing me and I do NOT want that. So no, I don't know, but I feel the pain of the protesters and, had I been in London, would probably have joined them.

And excuse the European slur - I just meant that the people I was talking with then were Europeans and already aware of the BNP's campaign, so I didn't feel the need to reiterate. I'm sure a lot of people outside of Europe also know what's going on, and have far more constructive ideas than I as to what we can do.

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Originally Posted by vaz02 View Post
Where do you people stand on the Peace Process ?

NF and BNP are different. The BNP are trying to become a legitimate party. More Anti democracy protests in London today.
I agree - there certainly is a difference between the NF and the BNP. The fact that Griffin was one of the former, however, doesn't exactly endear them in the public eye.
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Old 06-09-2009, 02:48 PM   #36
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Where do you people stand on the Peace Process ?

NF and BNP are different. The BNP are trying to become a legitimate party. More Anti democracy protests in London today.

Of course they can't go on beating people of other ethnic origin in the streets. Even Hitlers NSDAP was a legitimate party back in the days!


I'm glad that people continue to protest!! Being openly racist should never be legitimized!
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Old 06-09-2009, 03:03 PM   #37
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Your thuggish attitude towards free speech is disturbing, perhaps you could systematically list the reasons why the BNP platform is wrong before throwing them in prison.

Did Partygirlvox ever had a 'tuggish attitude against free speech'? She only explains why the BNP got so many votes and walk the line of what's legal and what's not. And that the law concerning sowing hatred and openly discriminate should be changed. It doesn't mean she's against free speech!

The BNP have a thuggish attitude. They discriminate and sow hatred against ethnic groups.
Instead of explaining in a mormal way why mass immigration isn't good for Britain, like a decent conservative party would do, they talk about 'parasites who dry up the sources of Britain'. Or do you think that is a decent opinion?
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Old 06-09-2009, 03:04 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by partygirlvox View Post
My thuggish attitude is born of a fear that this party will become a fascist regime, their success so far mirrors the Nazi party's ascendancy to government exactly and yes, I'd do anything in my power to prevent that. Perhaps you don't quite realise what a threat the BNP pose, not to democracy but to people? Yes, I would've systematically listed every wrong they've done, but I presumed most European people reading this thread already knew.

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Old 06-09-2009, 03:20 PM   #39
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No mainstream party talks about immigration because in this country you are deemed a racist to even suggest we have a problem. If you check what NG is saying, he called illegal immigrants and bogus asylum seekers parasites. I don't see any problem with that to be honest. He said if you are in this country legally you have nothing to fear. The media have blown this out of all proportion as they like to sensationalise everything. People haven't given the party the chance to speak so how can they possibly defend themselves or put there point across ? Instead they get secondhand drivel from hack journo's hell bent on selling papers and scare mongering the public.

On a side note, I don't agree with all this “ don't give them a platform “ bullshit. Who put those people in charge of who I should and shouldn't listen to ? Seems like a fascist policy in itself yeah ?

Those anti democracy protesters seem the type who terrorise scientists who test on animals and in an act of revenge dig up the bodies of family relatives.
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Old 06-09-2009, 04:04 PM   #40
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@ Vaz: the man is a racist! Of course he only talks about illegal immigrants and bogus asylum seekers on national tv, but it's obvious he'd rather see all of them, even the legal ones and the ones living in the UK for years, leave the country as soon as possible.

A lot of BNP'ers are former National Fronters, who learned how to talk and discuss instead of trashing another curry restaurant and beating up black people in the streets. They understand they have to behave in order not to be seen as an antisocial group.
Being openly racist will not be tolerated on national tv and in the House of Common, but many people know what BNP really stand for, and I'm not talking about the opponents, but about half of the people who voted for them who don't like 'black in the Union Jack'.

As Partygirlvox already pointed out, these BNP'ers are very intelligent. Intelligent enough to not say particular things and to do say what can be explained as 'underbelly feelings'.

By the way, correct me if I'm mistaken, but didn't other conservatives, such as the Tories have ideas about immigration?
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Old 06-09-2009, 04:09 PM   #41
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The White Power shirt says it all: Other races are inferiour to the white race. Nick Griffin racist? Noooo!

1488 LOL!
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Old 06-09-2009, 04:16 PM   #42
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You guys really seem quite far behind in recent BNP policy.
The BNP have Jewish members and have support from ethnic minorities. Dont believe too much in what liberal media have to say.

Lily Allen is a media bully who has all the class of a discarded walkers crisp packet.
Well, the German NPD works together with some Islamist groups fighting their common enemy: the Jews. There is always minorities associating themselves with right-wing nuts. It's a puzzle to me, but it happens.


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Originally Posted by partygirlvox View Post
My thuggish attitude is born of a fear that this party will become a fascist regime, their success so far mirrors the Nazi party's ascendancy to government exactly and yes, I'd do anything in my power to prevent that. Perhaps you don't quite realise what a threat the BNP pose, not to democracy but to people? Yes, I would've systematically listed every wrong they've done, but I presumed most European people reading this thread already knew.
I think it's more dangerous to suppress any speech we don't feel comfortable with and to isolate these groups and forcing them to cover their demands. Because that, in itself, is counter-productive in that they will find a way to spout their bullshit in ways that simple-minded people will understand much less and hence they might feel represented best by those parties. Much better is to let them speak freely and then confront them with the bullshit they are releasing. But a free speech limited to the speech that comforts our ears is dangerous.

I also think there is quite a few differences between the BNP and the way the Nazis assumed power. Doesn't make them less dangerous, but I just don't agree that drowning out their voices would be the solution.
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Old 06-09-2009, 04:23 PM   #43
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I think it's more dangerous to suppress any speech we don't feel comfortable with and to isolate these groups and forcing them to cover their demands. Because that, in itself, is counter-productive in that they will find a way to spout their bullshit in ways that simple-minded people will understand much less and hence they might feel represented best by those parties. Much better is to let them speak freely and then confront them with the bullshit they are releasing. But a free speech limited to the speech that comforts our ears is dangerous.

I also think there is quite a few differences between the BNP and the way the Nazis assumed power. Doesn't make them less dangerous, but I just don't agree that drowning out their voices would be the solution.

That's a good point you make.
What I find most dangerous is that a lot of people don't see the dangers of groups like that.
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Old 06-09-2009, 04:24 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by partygirlvox View Post
I've always held that view - until now, and I'm just not sure. Putting them on the television and giving them a voice seems to have only legitimised them in the public eye. If they weren't given that voice then they would eventually crumble as the National Front did - but now they stand a chance of having power. Well, they already have it, they have a voice in the EU. They're representing me and I do NOT want that. So no, I don't know, but I feel the pain of the protesters and, had I been in London, would probably have joined them.
I don't know how the other parties handled that. But if they didn't call the BNP politicians out on what they said and let them speak freely without countering their arguments constructively, then this picture might well have come across. Hence, it's important that the journalists and the politicians from other parties are engaging in discussions where they correct the bullshit that was being spouted directly.
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Old 06-09-2009, 04:27 PM   #45
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80%+ of the people vote on who they see, what the voice sounds like and whether they understand most of the words the person says on tellie
they wouldn't recognize a political program if it fell on their heads

in Belgium the extreme right wing party lost a lot of votes because people have finally gotten bored of their leader
the UK hates Gordon Brown = left wing loses a lot
the Dutch are people who like nothing better than moaning so anything related to the 2 main parties in government now got hammered

you'd almost wonder whether people know it was a European election

the Swedish Pirate Party got a seat though
so yeah
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