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Old 08-24-2009, 05:57 PM   #76
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They're a pretty unreliable organisation right enough.
Name me one special interest group that is truly "reliable"? It's the nature of the beast.

The NRA?
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Old 08-24-2009, 05:57 PM   #77
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Well how do you propose they prove it on the spot? And if they let them go just to run someone over 10 minutes later?
This is a very interesting formulation. Is it generally the case that you would support detention of individuals deemed likely to commit a crime in the future?
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Old 08-24-2009, 05:58 PM   #78
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Name me one special interest group that is truly "reliable"? It's the nature of the beast.

The NRA?
As you well know, I am not an NRA supporter. But the NRA isn't above criticism and many criticisms have been levelled at it. Not so with MADD.
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Old 08-24-2009, 06:03 PM   #79
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This is a very interesting formulation. Is it generally the case that you would support detention of individuals deemed likely to commit a crime in the future?
Well this is the delima we're faced with, when someone is driving erratically but they refuse the breathalizer what do you do?

If I was a cop, the city, etc you bet I want to cover my ass and take them in for reckless driving at least rather then set a potential immediate danger free. Surely you can't be advocating setting those that can't even stay within the lines free to drive?
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Old 08-24-2009, 06:04 PM   #80
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Not so with MADD.
Probably because the pro drunk drivers sound pretty ridiculous.
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Old 08-24-2009, 06:30 PM   #81
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The Germans have it figured out.

YouTube - The Man With Two Brains -- drunk test is hard
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Old 08-24-2009, 06:44 PM   #82
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See, folks are so brainwashed about the "dangers" that it's not even open for discussion.
I worked in this area (drunk driving legislation) while I was a law student. Did a lot of research, co-wrote submissions to Parliament, co-authored papers, etc.

It's quite possible that some of us are very well informed and think that you're not.
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Old 08-24-2009, 06:45 PM   #83
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As you well know, I am not an NRA supporter. But the NRA isn't above criticism and many criticisms have been levelled at it. Not so with MADD.
Maybe not where you live, but their reputation has been rather tarnished in Canada (mostly due to issues surrounding allegations of tax improprieties, though).
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Old 08-24-2009, 06:49 PM   #84
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Well, more libertarian than left leaning, I would have thought.

It's interesting that no-one has actually countered the arguments in the article in detail. The idea that someone can be arrested purely on suspicion of drunk driving is certainly profoundly anti-libertarian, and it's amazing that it has become generally accepted.
His point had nothing to do with my point, though. He seized upon a blanket statement about the people he agitates and incorrectly applied it to this particular argument. And I'm pretty libertarian myself, but, in this instance I'll put safety and common sense before rigidity.
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Old 08-24-2009, 07:00 PM   #85
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I think .08 is fine.

Re-visiting the legal drinking age in the States might be interesting though. Anitram, any thoughts as a Canadian?
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Old 08-24-2009, 07:02 PM   #86
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I do think 18 should be the drinking age...
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Old 08-24-2009, 07:17 PM   #87
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I worked in this area (drunk driving legislation) while I was a law student. Did a lot of research, co-wrote submissions to Parliament, co-authored papers, etc.

It's quite possible that some of us are very well informed and think that you're not.
Classic logical fallacy. Argument based on imputed expertise rather than reasoning. Your expertise on the issue does not make your arguments necessarily any more valid than opposing arguments.

Ad hominem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(Nanny knows best, in other words.)
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Old 08-24-2009, 07:32 PM   #88
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I do think 18 should be the drinking age...
Crap, I have to agree with you again?

If 18 is mature enough to vote or serve your country in uniform... then it's mature enough to legally drink alcohol and except the consequences thereof.
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Old 08-24-2009, 07:39 PM   #89
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I cannot believe I am commenting, but...

Driving erratically and refusing a breathalyser test is a fairly silly course of action. And, assuming that the 'crime' is driving under the influence, it is not off in the future. It is being committed right there and then, if it can be proved.

And you know, if someone was driving erratically, and behaving erratically, and turned out to be stone sober, I'm not sure I wouldn't still be worried.

It is possible that the drunk driving laws are enforced in more elaborate and enthusiastic ways in the US compared to my own country... different cultures and all that.

Oh and it is 18 in Australia. Good times!
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Old 08-24-2009, 07:42 PM   #90
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Note: in no way do I align with some of the more abolitionist posters who want to demonise any drinking whatsoever of alcohol. That road has been gone down before on this forum and I ain't interested. Drinking in moderation, in a nice comfy chair with a car nowhere in sight, is not criminal. It's rather pleasant.
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