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Old 11-10-2009, 09:26 PM   #31
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AEON, could you give me a definition of "Political Correctness"? i'm curious.
wiki sums it up pretty well:
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Political correctness (adjectivally, politically correct; both forms commonly abbreviated to PC) is a term denoting language, ideas, policies, and behavior seen as seeking to minimize social offense in gender, racial, cultural, sexual orientation, handicap, and age-related contexts
The question remains - with a government filled with leaders intent to "minimize social offense in gender" - why have these same leaders deemed it necessary to keep women from serving in Combat Arms positions?
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:13 PM   #32
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My point is - one would think that in this day of Political Correctness - women should have been allowed in the Infantry years ago. Why do you think this hasn't happened? What are the reasons they give for this policy?
I have no idea what their stated reasons for the policy are.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:43 PM   #33
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I have no idea what their stated reasons for the policy are.
It might help you at least "understand" the other side of the argument, even if you don't agree. Believe it or not, there are plenty of highly educated, highly intelligent people out there that disagree with you. They are not all idiots because they have an opposite view. Your opinion on the issue is not universallly accepted in the manner that something like "Love Thy Neighbor" is.

I understand your position, you think it's unfair. I also agree it's unfair. Where we disagree, in part, is that I also think it's unfair that even though I wasn't born 6'11" with a great vertical that I wasn't drafted by the NBA. But I accept this. Why? Because that particular position is greater than my capabilities (I'm only 6'1" with a so/so vertical and terrible jumpshot). Forcing the NBA to draft me and then play me in games might be "fair" to me, but "unfair" to my teammates that would have to make up for my weak capabilities.

Not everyone is born to be an Infantry soldier. It's just that simple. Carrying a 100 lbs rucksack for 20-30 miles (with another 20 lbs weapon) is still part of the job. Carrying a wounded 200 lbs man for several hundred meters is still part of the job. When these sort of demands are not part of the job, perhaps things can change (regarding this portion of the debate. The social/morale problems would still exist).
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:46 PM   #34
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It might help you at least "understand" the other side of the argument, even if you don't agree. Believe it or not, there are plenty of highly educated, highly intelligent people out there that disagree with you. They are not all idiots because they have an opposite view. Your opinion on the issue is not universallly accepted in the manner that something like "Love Thy Neighbor" is.
I honestly don't know what you're on about in your post.

I genuinely told you I didn't know what their stated policy was after you asked me what it was. Kind of confused by what followed on your part.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:54 PM   #35
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:36 AM   #36
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Limiting them to non combat arms roles are the only limitations they should have.
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Old 11-11-2009, 08:24 AM   #37
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Would you have any difficulty taking orders from a woman officer (or for that matter, a gay one?). How do you feel about women combat pilots?
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Old 11-11-2009, 08:27 AM   #38
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I take orders from women all the time anyway. Pilots are fine but they are definitely subjected to worse tortures than their male counterparts when shot down and captured.
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Old 11-11-2009, 10:06 AM   #39
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Limiting them to non combat arms roles are the only limitations they should have.
I agree.
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Old 11-11-2009, 10:11 AM   #40
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I agree.


is this due to physical limitations, or that a female throws off a male/male dynamic?

also, would you say that this applies to the gays as well?
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Old 11-11-2009, 10:14 AM   #41
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also, would you say that this applies to the gays as well?
Would you want someone in combat who was concerned more about breaking a nail?

Plus, haven't you heard? They can't keep it in their pants!!!
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Old 11-11-2009, 10:20 AM   #42
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Would you have any difficulty taking orders from a woman officer (or for that matter, a gay one?). How do you feel about women combat pilots?
In Combat Arms, there are no women officers. If there were, I would follow any order that wasn't illegal or immoral.

There was an article in Newsweek a while back that talked about women and combat. If I recall, the author mentioned that men are biologically hardwired to have more trust in other men to lead them into hostile situations and fight next to them in hostile situations.

And I may be wrong - but I think Israel has stopped (or will soon stop) the experiment allowing women to serve in Infantry type positions.

As far as combat pilots go - not sure. There doesn't seem to be a unit cohesion issue like the Infantry. The physical demands would have to be met of course.

The gay officer example is another topic altogether.
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Old 11-11-2009, 10:26 AM   #43
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is this due to physical limitations, or that a female throws off a male/male dynamic?

also, would you say that this applies to the gays as well?

There are jobs in the Army/Marines that don't have the same physcial demands and unit cohesion needs as the Infantry.

I am still formulating my opinion about gays in the military/Combat Arms. The physical limitations wouldn't be a problem (assuming male here). The unit cohesion may be a problem at first, but may be overcome in a few years. However, having a gay couple serving together in the same unit would certainly cause issues (in Combat Arms).
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Old 11-11-2009, 10:29 AM   #44
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And I may be wrong - but I think Israel has stopped (or will soon stop) the experiment allowing women to serve in Infantry type positions.
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I've always heard, and I'd agree, that with the Israelis the real problem of females in combat is the effect it has on the males when one is killed. I still don't think they ever served in true line units though.
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Old 11-11-2009, 10:30 AM   #45
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could there be an all-female infantry unit?
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