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Old 08-18-2009, 03:38 PM   #91
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Ummmm, that is a Mussolini quote, not a Jonah Goldberg quote. I know it from Ayn Rand's writings although I have and have read Liberal Fascism..
We live in a day where many quotes are attributed to the wrong people or taken out of context. I realize it's suppose to be a Mussolini quote, but I can't find any other source that attributes this quote to him, so I'm a little hesitant to believe it.

What's interesting is that even Moussolini realizes that fascism is associated with the right, maybe he knew the historical context. The book acknowledges this fact on the same page as your quote.
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Old 08-18-2009, 06:43 PM   #92
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Mussollini, the father of fascism, was a socialist.
Even after splitting with the party organization he declared, "Whatever happens you won't lose me, twelve years of my life in the party ought to be sufficient guarantee of my socialist faith. Socialism is in my blood." Also saying, "I am and shall remain a socialist and my convictions will never change. They are bred into my very bones."

Mussolini wasn't the father of fascism. He probably wasn't even a true fascist, more of populist/Peronist.

But anyway, Mussolini describing himself as a socialist makes it automatically true, right? I'm pretty sure Osama Bin Laden proclaims himself a defender of freedoms.
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Old 08-18-2009, 07:12 PM   #93
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Good thing I wasn't relying on this thread to "set me straight," huh?
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Old 08-18-2009, 08:32 PM   #94
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quotes are fine and dandy, but really, let's see some objective policy analysis to back up these claims. i'm totally on board with the idea that stalinism and fascism (any totalitarian ideology-- juche, whatever) are close relatives. but, linking socialism, with no qualification, to fascism is just absurd. frankly, i'm insulted.
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Old 08-18-2009, 10:28 PM   #95
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Mussolini wasn't the father of fascism. He probably wasn't even a true fascist, more of populist/Peronist.

But anyway, Mussolini describing himself as a socialist makes it automatically true, right? I'm pretty sure Osama Bin Laden proclaims himself a defender of freedoms.




this is the second time i've agreed with you this evening.
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Old 08-18-2009, 11:30 PM   #96
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And also, why pushing for universal healthcare is somehow related to Hitler, who as far as I can tell, was adamantly opposed to any sort of health care for large segments of the German population.
ok, THAT was funny.
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Mussollini, the father of fascism, was a socialist.
Even after splitting with the party organization he declared, "Whatever happens you won't lose me, twelve years of my life in the party ought to be sufficient guarantee of my socialist faith. Socialism is in my blood." Also saying, "I am and shall remain a socialist and my convictions will never change. They are bred into my very bones."
As has already been pointed out, you're clearly just cutting and pasting here. If you actually knew the history of how the Fascists came to power in Italy, there's no way you could take those quotes with a straight face. The campaigns in the Po Valley and Puglia, the crushing of the 1922 strike, the March on Rome--look it up. And note what the political affiliation of the people the Blackshirts were publically beating and executing, burning and looting the homes and offices of, and forcing out of local office was (hint: they weren't rightists).

Now if you want to talk about the kind of economic program that Mussolini eventually settled on once the Great Depression hit and his power was consolidated, it certainly wasn't classic laissez-faire--murderous authoritarian expansionists tend not to go for that kinda thing, cramps their style a bit--but (should be) needless to say, it was hardly a return to the vision of his pre-WWI years either. Are you familiar with Mussolini's distinction between 'heroic,' 'static' and 'decadent' capitalisms?
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Fascist states and socialist dictatorships are both totalatarian systems, and to that extent they may have a lot in common.
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i'm totally on board with the idea that stalinism and fascism (any totalitarian ideology-- juche, whatever) are close relatives.
Actually I wouldn't go this far. The distinction between authoritarianism (which usually better characterizes fascist states) and totalitarianism is an important one; totalitarianism by nature and design destroys civil society completely.
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:00 AM   #97
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As has already been pointed out, you're clearly just cutting and pasting here. If you actually knew the history of how the Fascists came to power in Italy, there's no way you could take those quotes with a straight face.
You mean, you've actually studied this shit and know what you're talking about?


Elitist.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:30 AM   #98
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You mean, you've actually studied this shit and know what you're talking about?


Elitist.


who needs books when you've got guts?
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Old 08-19-2009, 12:52 PM   #99
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totalitarianism by nature and design destroys civil society completely.

And that's where many feel we're headed.

The Impromptu Obamanomics is failing, and he's worse than a drunken salior in a whorehose with spending-at least a druken sailor stops when he is out of money. This administration simply prints more money.

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Old 08-19-2009, 12:53 PM   #100
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This administration simply prints more money.

Where the hell were you when Bush was doing the same to pay for his little wars?
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Old 08-19-2009, 12:58 PM   #101
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Where the hell were you when Bush was doing the same to pay for his little wars?

I think Obama has trounced Bush's spending in only a few short months vs Bush's 8 years.

You're comparing Mt Baldy to Mount Everest-and Obama has just gotten started.

That said, I will now invoke our sister Hilary's views on the people's right to peaceful dissent:

YouTube - Hillary Clinton - I am Sick & Tired (Right to Protest)

Thank you.
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:14 PM   #102
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You're sure you didn't forget to put the word 'national' in front of 'socialist'?
No, its official name was the Italian Socialist Party. He was a member of the leadership of the party and in fact was in charge of the editorship of it's national newspaper Avanti!

But of course he was never a socialist.
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:16 PM   #103
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And that's where many feel we're headed.


clearly, because it's not like the "many" are actually thinking.
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:18 PM   #104
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No, its official name was the Italian Socialist Party. He was a member of the leadership of the party and in fact was in charge of the editorship of it's national newspaper Avanti!

But of course he was never a socialist.
And Castro says he's not a communist.
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:25 PM   #105
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No, its official name was the Italian Socialist Party. He was a member of the leadership of the party and in fact was in charge of the editorship of it's national newspaper Avanti!

But of course he was never a socialist.
You know, you haven't addressed any of the serious questions or challenges in this thread. As usual for you, you answer the one-liners and then make a few posts with easy lists and quotes, but leave the real challenges unanswered.

I don't hold out any hope that you'll change, but it's fun to point out patterns.
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