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Old 05-20-2009, 04:29 PM   #16
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Yeah, we went kind of nuts for Googlized Ida at the library where I work today.
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Old 05-20-2009, 07:55 PM   #17
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It's kind of sad that this find is somehow not obvious. I'm sure there will be debate on how much of a link Ida is since evolution must include SEVERAL links. Biblical creationists are Fundamentalists I thought. Most Christians would probably side with "God created the universe and the Bible is a fable in parts." Of course that could leave people to believe in "Christ consciousness" Oprah ideas or some contradictory point of view of science and fable. To me the Bible is a philosophy book that helps with human psychology.

I simply leave question marks where they are. So far it looks like evolution is gaining evidence and becoming more complex than Darwin's ideas now that we can see how chromosomes can change cells when they move from one cell to another. (Helps to explain large changes in life in short periods of time). Abiogenesis has different theories. The oldest life on earth we know of is bacteria 3.8 billion years ago. How it happened exactly is not completely certain. Lightning?
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Old 05-20-2009, 10:21 PM   #18
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think this is interesting stuff. eventually we will close most of the "gaps" that exist today in regards to how life started, and how it evolved.

Sharing this with a few of my friends who are christians have said the following:

1. What does this prove exactly?
2. Us coming from a giant "rat" is so believable *sarcasm*
3. evolution is God's plan

My only point is this; it's OK to say I don't know how we got here. There doesn't have to be an answer. I do know that science is making progress is finding these answers, and nothing points to a supreme being....*must put yet to satisfy believers*.

To say God created evolution is not a fact, it's a guess; as we don't know. Filling in gaps with a God to me is just human nature's inability to deal with the unknown.

But you are free to believe in what you want. Will never get in the way of that.
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:13 PM   #19
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I heard this guy say today that "the left has made nature and science it's religion, and the right has made god it's religion". And I thought, this has to be one of THE stupidest things I've heard in a long while...

To me it's obvious that God lives in nature and science, but I can understand how some have a problem reconciling God and science, I don't get it, but I can see how... Plus I really don't think God wanted to be turned into a religion, I thought the comment was just completely out of touch on all accounts.
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Old 05-21-2009, 06:25 AM   #20
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i do believe the good lord put that there to throw the secularists off the trail.
Somewhere, God is rubbing his hands together with glee, with an evil grin on his face.
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Old 05-21-2009, 08:08 AM   #21
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I heard this guy say today that "the left has made nature and science it's religion, and the right has made god it's religion". And I thought, this has to be one of THE stupidest things I've heard in a long while...

To me it's obvious that God lives in nature and science, but I can understand how some have a problem reconciling God and science, I don't get it, but I can see how... Plus I really don't think God wanted to be turned into a religion, I thought the comment was just completely out of touch on all accounts.
Agreed. I've never had trouble with the concept of god and science co-exisiting; I do not see where they are mutually exclusive? General revelation says that God is self-evident in creation - you don't need a Bible or a priest or missionary or sermon to be able to understand God.
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Old 05-21-2009, 10:20 AM   #22
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"the left has made nature and science it's religion, and the right has made god it's religion".
I don't know the context of this quote but blind faith exists on both sides IMO so that quote has some ring of truth. Religion to me is philosophy and science is empericism. The way to connect the two is to try and get the best benefit of both parts where the results can be seen to be good on this planet.

The Ida situation has some scientists annoyed that many evolutionists are taking her too far because tracing missing links over millions of years can be hazardous. There could be many lifeforms that have similar human characteristics and our ancestor maybe another animal so leaping to conclusions too quickly can be a problem in science. Science has to rely on what animal fell into what goo to be preserved today. What animals are we missing? Probably lots.
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Old 05-21-2009, 01:41 PM   #23
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I don't know the context of this quote but blind faith exists on both sides IMO so that quote has some ring of truth.
Where's the ring of truth? Show me what it means to have "blind faith" in science...

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Religion to me is philosophy and science is empericism.
I'm assuming you meant to say, 'empiricism', am I right?

Emperical -

Quote:
depending upon experience or observation alone, without using scientific method or theory, esp. as in medicine.

according to the dictionary, so you can see where that becomes very contradictory.

I think sometimes you really don't understand science...
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Old 05-21-2009, 02:49 PM   #24
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I am not quite ready to take the 'leap of faith' that Ida is the missing link, for sure.

Did humans evolve from this species? perhaps.

Could she only be a branch that went extinct? perhaps.


Do I believe that humans and chimps have a common ancestor? I think it is more likely than not.


Do I believe that humans sprang into existence 'at one moment in time' via a creator? No, not at all.

Do I believe religious people are correct when they say evolution is just part of God's plan and fits in perfectly with the "Scriptures"? No, I do not.
Many things do not fit in with what was once considered the Gospel Truth in the "Scriptures"? God, Jesus and the Angels are all supposed to be living up in the sky, athmosphere somewhere. They always asended up into the Heavens. Man was seprarated from them by distance. People still want to go "up" when they die. But, if you asked them about it now, they would say it is more like 'going to a different reality' more like when "Kirk" gets beamed somewhere else.

The aswer is simple, the reason "the Heavens" even exist is because they are just a continuation of ealier religions that have 'their Gods" in the stars.
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Old 05-21-2009, 03:58 PM   #25
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Where's the ring of truth? Show me what it means to have "blind faith" in science...
Treating theory as fact. Or jumping to the conclusion too quickly. Evolution has many questions related to the large species variety changes that occured in relatively short periods of time that can't be totally explained by Darwin's account of evolution. Why was it slower in some periods and faster in others? Ironically the evolutionary theory needs to evolve. I "believe" that the evolutionary theory is in the right direction but assuming Ida is our ancestor when there could be many other animals that might be closer to our us than Ida is a bit of a leap. You can tell there is an emotional response with some scientists that want to debunk creationism with this information. To my mind creationism was already debunked by carbon dating. That's why I also look at atheists who believe that there IS no God are pursuing faith just as much as one who says "God is this way or that way". Why can't people just say "I don't know" when that is the most honest answer?

Quote:
em·pir·i·cism (ěm-pîr'ĭ-sĭz'əm)

- Employment of empirical methods, as in science.
empiricism definition | Dictionary.com

This is what I mean. Methods.
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Old 05-21-2009, 04:02 PM   #26
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The aswer is simple, the reason "the Heavens" even exist is because they are just a continuation of ealier religions that have 'their Gods" in the stars.
Humans like abstract ideas and patterns so it makes sense when they looked to the sky that they would make connections (without scientific analysis) to fill in the gaps of knowledge with their opinions of how things are and ideas they inherited.

I agree that many religions borrow from each other and add layers over time.
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Old 05-21-2009, 04:05 PM   #27
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If that is the "missing link" than Anita Bryant was a post op tranvestite.

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Old 05-21-2009, 04:12 PM   #28
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If that is the "missing link" than Anita Bryant was a post op tranvestite.

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Old 05-21-2009, 04:17 PM   #29
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It's a very scary thought to think when we die there is nothing, nada, zip, zero. We can't imagine it because we can't even reproduce it. We always have something on/in our mind. An image, hearing (is that right word when it's inside our head??) a voice, etc.

There is a lot more comfort knowing that if you're a good person, you will be rewarded (much like a child is rewarded for doing good work; or a dog for being obedient).

I think some humans have trouble dealing with a possible reality that we share a common link with an animal that will play with and fling it's own poo around. *In a snotty voice* We're so much better than that!!!

Ironically, you say something challenging against God or someone's faith, and those folks will resort to flinging poo you're way (figuritively and literal sometimes). Which should just prove a point in itself

Like I said in my other post, and purpleoscar said; admitting to "I don't know" is really the most honest anyone can be.
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Old 05-21-2009, 04:34 PM   #30
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The way humans got off course is subscribing to the Ex Nihilo theory of creation, a Catholic theory later adopted by most post Catholic Christians creeds- when the word creation means you don't make something out of nothing.

For all we know those bones found our from chunks of other worlds when God took His powers and created this planet, and we've been ignorantly extrapolating on the findings ever since.

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