Margaret Thatcher and the new conservatism (from 1975) - Page 8 - U2 Feedback

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Old 04-09-2013, 09:02 PM   #106
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It was considered to be communism by many.

I think you should start a thread about communism and how you see it. You bring it up a lot, so I'm curious about your beliefs - maybe others are too.
I would be even more interested in how Vlad's system would be applied in real life with real people which is the ultimate test. Plato created a Utopia that in real life many would find a nightmare.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:08 PM   #107
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what would the concept of true communism be like?
each person would have what they need, there would be sharing, no greed.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:18 PM   #108
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I'd just be guessing here that Vlad is alluding to the state of true communism involving the melting away of the state, a rather different situation to the centralised 'dictatorship of the proletariat' that eventuated in the twentieth century.

But you know what, you have to call it something.

Anyway, none of them deserve half as much credit as Gorbachev, the man who pressed the self-destruct button.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:58 PM   #109
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Be careful what you wish for...
Yeah I know, but he keeps mentioning his version of communism so I would like to know what he really believes about it.
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:01 PM   #110
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God bless Lady Thatcher.

Rest in peace.

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Old 04-10-2013, 12:18 AM   #111
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Can you say anything without slamming Obama?

I mean, honestly, its fine not to like him, bit its not like he's GWB or Nixon someone truly horrible.
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:02 AM   #112
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You would say that, of course, because you're a progressive. For every GWB and Nixon for us, there's someone awful like Obama and FDR for them.
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Old 04-10-2013, 02:28 AM   #113
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How influential could she have been in the year 2013 anyway? I mean, I don't live in Britain, so maybe I'm missing something, but she hasn't been a member of parliament in over 20 years. She still had a voice, but her death doesn't stop any orders from being made. It doesn't directly benefit the world in any meaningful way really, so I see no reason to feel upbeat about her death.

If the ideology she left behind died, that would be cool.
i think it's because she became such a contentious divisive figure in the UK... i don't think "upbeat" is the right way to describe it, not for me anyway, but the effects of her rule are still acutely felt - she single-handedly decimated local communities in the UK, stripped them of industry, trashed the unions and workers rights, took away their voice - there are no jobs now in these mining communities and there are so many young people who cannot find work - families had been going down the mines for generations then their whole livelihood was taken away from them - these people are still suffering from her legacy...
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:54 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl View Post
It was considered to be communism by many.

I think you should start a thread about communism and how you see it. You bring it up a lot, so I'm curious about your beliefs - maybe others are too.
But you'll find many people didn't know what it actually was, much like conservatives and liberals alike today.

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But you know what, you have to call it something.
It was obviously some form of capitalism, considering a class society was never abolished and the bureaucracy controlled the means of production as opposed to the workers.

Quote:
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Yeah I know, but he keeps mentioning his version of communism so I would like to know what he really believes about it.
My version?

My supposed 'version' is the only definition.
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:25 AM   #115
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Russell Brand's written an interesting and very thoughtful article about growing up in Thatcher's Britain - i normally find the guy irritating as a comedian, but some of his written articles aren't bad...

this bit made me chuckle:

"When I was a kid, Thatcher was the headmistress of our country." - that is exactly what it felt like - he was bang on!

i liked this bit too...

Quote:
When I awoke today on LA time my phone was full of impertinent digital eulogies. It'd be disingenuous to omit that there were a fair number of ding-dong-style celebratory messages amidst the pensive reflections on the end of an era. Interestingly, one mate of mine, a proper leftie, in his heyday all Red Wedge and right-on punch-ups, was melancholy. "I thought I'd be overjoyed, but really it's just … another one bites the dust …" This demonstrates, I suppose, that if you opposed Thatcher's ideas it was likely because of their lack of compassion, which is really just a word for love. If love is something you cherish, it is hard to glean much joy from death, even in one's enemies.
and this bit:

Quote:
It always struck me as peculiar, too, when the Spice Girls briefly championed Thatcher as an early example of girl power. I don't see that. She is an anomaly; a product of the freak-onomy of her time. Barack Obama, interestingly, said in his statement that she had "broken the glass ceiling for other women". Only in the sense that all the women beneath her were blinded by falling shards. She is an icon of individualism, not of feminism.
and, lastly, this bit:

Quote:
I can't articulate with the skill of either of "the Marks" – Steel or Thomas – why Thatcher and Thatcherism were so bad for Britain but I do recall that even to a child her demeanour and every discernible action seemed to be to the detriment of our national spirit and identity. Her refusal to stand against apartheid, her civil war against the unions, her aggression towards our neighbours in Ireland and a taxation system that was devised in the dark ages, the bombing of a retreating ship – it's just not British.
that sums up my feelings exactly...

Russell Brand on Margaret Thatcher: 'I always felt sorry for her children' | Comment is free | The Guardian
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:59 AM   #116
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He is a really good writer.
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:10 AM   #117
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He is a really good writer.
yeah he's not bad at all! i remember reading an article he wrote on Amy Winehouse after she died, and it was so thoughtful and well written i was really surprised! this one is really good too - a lot of the things he said really resonate with me...
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:11 AM   #118
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Pretty sure some of those cover shots must be artful parodies. "Maggie Dead in Bed At Ritz"?
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It is The Sun.
no no, that is in fact accurate - she indeed died at the Ritz - she had been living there for a while
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:47 AM   #119
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Russell Brand is an incredibly switched on dude. Most comedians are exceptionally smart. Great read.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:05 AM   #120
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Can you say anything without slamming Obama?

I mean, honestly, its fine not to like him, bit its not like he's GWB or Nixon someone truly horrible.
"Don't slam our guy, but it's okay to slam your guys because OBVIOUSLY they deserve to be slammed. Our guys are nice people"

Total classic.
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