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Old 12-16-2013, 11:01 AM   #796
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In High School I lived in Boy's Homes, as a late teen I joined the Navy, I later served in the Army Infantry - and I've spent 20 years in IT (very few women). Safe to say - I've heard almost every "guy" comment out there. I promise you - most of the comments on the list I've never heard a man say...ever: You'll Never Get Laid, Fake Geek Girl, She Want to Impress Boys, Be More Feminine, You'll Never Get Laid with That Look, What Are You Wearing, Says Birth Dates of All The Members of the Band..., Was It Worth It BabyMaker.

Yes, I've heard women called whores and sluts - usually after the woman has rejected the man. And I've heard some couples struggle with a woman's career and parenting. But I've heard these comments equally from both sexes. The other comments are either made up or coming from women.

If you are going to make the human male into a caveman - then you need to be accurate about how a caveman thinks. A caveman could care less about these things in women - he just wants to have sex with whatever female is close by and get back to hanging out with the other cavemen.
That's your experience, which is not the same as everyone else's. I've had "men" say those things to me. I once had a male co-worker tell me I wasn't a "real" woman. I have a few female geek friends and they get those comments from guys about trying to impress the boys and not being real geeks. So just because you haven't heard it does not mean it has and never will happen to others.


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Downplaying is not the same as asking for a bit of accuracy.
We're giving you accuracy here, but you keep downplaying it or blowing it off as propaganda.
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:36 AM   #797
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In High School I lived in Boy's Homes, as a late teen I joined the Navy, I later served in the Army Infantry - and I've spent 20 years in IT (very few women). Safe to say - I've heard almost every "guy" comment out there. I promise you - most of the comments on the list I've never heard a man say...ever: You'll Never Get Laid, Fake Geek Girl, She Want to Impress Boys, Be More Feminine, You'll Never Get Laid with That Look, What Are You Wearing, Says Birth Dates of All The Members of the Band..., Was It Worth It BabyMaker.

Yes, I've heard women called whores and sluts - usually after the woman has rejected the man. And I've heard some couples struggle with a woman's career and parenting. But I've heard these comments equally from both sexes. The other comments are either made up or coming from women.

If you are going to make the human male into a caveman - then you need to be accurate about how a caveman thinks. A caveman could care less about these things in women - he just wants to have sex with whatever female is close by and get back to hanging out with the other cavemen.
Wanna take a trip down my childhood to prove you wrong?

I've heard comments all my life that I'm supposed to be more feminine, wear better clothes, more female looking clothes, that I don't know shit about my favourite band when I wear their tshirts because I"m far too young...

Yes I am somewhat tomboyish, don't wear make up or dresses, I don't do girly shit like talk about nail polish or shopping, I despise that. I'd rather play videogames with my mates or go have a drink. Plus I'm physically stronger than any woman I know, I am good with technology and fix stuff around the house. I wear Converse because they're pretty much the only shoes that fit my feet, having small feet and size fuckin' 43(US mens 11). Yes I wear more comfortable clothes, jeans and shirts or a tshirt rather than tight fitting 'sexy' clothes. Because I prefer being comfortable and don't give a damn about fashion.

Primary and highschool kids can be ruthless. I've been bullied my whole life. Being called a man, ugly, loser.

Most of the people calling me this were men. Guys that told me I was far too hideous to date. That they were not gay. That I would, indeed, never get laid.

So don't fucking ever try to tell me again that men don't say these things.
YOU ARE WRONG.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:44 AM   #798
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So don't fucking ever try to tell me again that men don't say these things.
YOU ARE WRONG.
Translation: your personal experience means everything and mine means nothing. Which of course - only highlights the danger of bringing in subjective data into a discussion. I guess if we had the time, we could take a worldwide poll of the "things men say about women"...

In the meantime, if you're getting your data from cartoons and memes, then it's highly unlikely you're ever going to empathize with the male perspective on this issue.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:06 PM   #799
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It demonstrates that patriarchy is a cultural power structure that is negotiated at all times by all people, and that women in particular have a lot to gain or lose from it.
And what is the ultimate solution here? Matriarchy or equality? If matriarchy, how would society be better? If equality - what does gender equality look like to you? Is it more than legal equality? Are genders still allowed to be unique, yet remain equal in your eyes?
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:08 PM   #800
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Translation: your personal experience means everything and mine means nothing. Which of course - only highlights the danger of bringing in subjective data into a discussion. I guess if we had the time, we could take a worldwide poll of the "things men say about women"...

In the meantime, if you're getting your data from cartoons and memes, then it's highly unlikely you're ever going to empathize with the male perspective on this issue.
In the meantime, if you're getting your data from your own personal experience, then it's highly unlikely you're ever going to empathize with the female perspective on this issue

Your lack of empathy and poor sensitivity is appalling.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:30 PM   #801
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In the meantime, if you're getting your data from your own personal experience, then it's highly unlikely you're ever going to empathize with the female perspective on this issue
I agree. That's one of the reasons I dare step into these threads.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:35 PM   #802
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I agree. That's one of the reasons I dare step into these threads.
I don't understand what you're talking about. You say here you dare to come here to understand the female perspective, yet your posts reek of an unwillingness to understand what's it like for a woman and an insistence on seeing the world from your own narrow male perspective.

You seem threatened by feminism of any kind, and I don't see that changing any time soon.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:42 PM   #803
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Originally Posted by AEON View Post

Translation: your personal experience means everything and mine means nothing. Which of course - only highlights the danger of bringing in subjective data into a discussion. I guess if we had the time, we could take a worldwide poll of the "things men say about women"...

In the meantime, if you're getting your data from cartoons and memes, then it's highly unlikely you're ever going to empathize with the male perspective on this issue.
Your posts in this thread are getting painful to read.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:57 PM   #804
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Aeon's relentless desire to turn every conversation about women and feminism into a conversation about men seems to have reached it peak right about here.
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it's highly unlikely you're ever going to empathize with the male perspective on this issue.
Seriously. Way to blow your cover wide open. Okay, you believe that feminism is harmful to men. Gotcha. Now move it along folks, nothin more to see here. If these
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And what is the ultimate solution here? Matriarchy or equality? If matriarchy, how would society be better? If equality - what does gender equality look like to you? Is it more than legal equality? Are genders still allowed to be unique, yet remain equal in your eyes?
were sincere questions I would answer them. But I think that if they were sincere they would have appeared considerably earlier in this thread, not as part of an attempt to deflect attention from a massive downward spiral.
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You seem threatened by feminism of any kind, and I don't see that changing any time soon.
This seems to be the case and I do wonder why you keep coming back to this thread, clearly not to gain perspective or share meaningful conversation, but to critique and derail? There are men's movement threads all over reddit where you would find lots of sympathetic company.
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Old 12-16-2013, 01:36 PM   #805
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Originally Posted by AEON View Post
Translation: your personal experience means everything and mine means nothing. Which of course - only highlights the danger of bringing in subjective data into a discussion. I guess if we had the time, we could take a worldwide poll of the "things men say about women"...

In the meantime, if you're getting your data from cartoons and memes, then it's highly unlikely you're ever going to empathize with the male perspective on this issue.
So because it's my personal experience it doesn't count for shit?


You said men DO NOT say these kind of things.

I give you a personal example that they DO.

Personal experience is not the relevant factor here. THe factor is that men DO say these things. You just happen to be lucky to not encounter them. Does that mean you can just turn a blind eye to these things and pretend they don't happen?



Empathising with male perspective on the issue? Where was the male empathy when they were relentlessly bullying me for being 'different'?
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 12-16-2013, 01:55 PM   #806
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This seems to be the case and I do wonder why you keep coming back to this thread, clearly not to gain perspective or share meaningful conversation, but to critique and derail?
Don't you feel you learn something when you're thinking is challenged? Or - if you're thinking isn't challenged, at least to hear a different point of view?

I do like reddit for some topics (baseball, futurology, technology...), but I prefer Interference for social and political discussions. One the main reasons I like it here is because of the occasional debate.

I think Anitram did an excellent job in her discussion on abortion. I learned something there. And I'm learning from you. As I'm learning from Pearl and Galeongirl. I don't have to agree with you to learn from you.

I'm sure if you asked the women in my life if I were a bit chauvinistic - they would probably say "yes," at least a little. However - it's not a one or a zero. Meaning, I don't mistreat women and sincerely believe in equal treatment before the law. But I'm "old-fashioned" in that I still open the doors for women and I still stand up when a woman enters the room - lessons taught to me by grandmother.

We all have tendencies to categorize and define things in the most efficient way possible. We've evolved with that ability. The key to wisdom, of course, is to identify which thoughts are merely striving for efficiency vs. when they are actually pursuing/attaining truth.
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Old 12-16-2013, 01:57 PM   #807
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Aeon's relentless desire to turn every conversation about women and feminism into a conversation about men seems to have reached it peak right about here.
How can you have a discussion against the "patriarchal system" if it does not include men?
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:03 PM   #808
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Originally Posted by Galeongirl View Post
So because it's my personal experience it doesn't count for shit?
I conceded subjective experience is difficult to quantify.

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Does that mean you can just turn a blind eye to these things and pretend they don't happen?
People should not say mean things. In certain environments - saying such things will get you fired from your job. I just thought the cartoon was weak (as I think of propaganda).


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Empathising with male perspective on the issue? Where was the male empathy when they were relentlessly bullying me for being 'different'?
So - what of the men that did not bully you? Can you empathize with their perspective?
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:18 PM   #809
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Just on the fake geek girl alone, it's painfully apparent guys often see women as invaders to what they consider their male only culture. The vitriol aimed at Anita Sarkeesian for her feminist critique of games is quite shameful. You only need to step into any online game to hear how many young males treat gamers known to be female, from Call of Duty to World of Warcraft.

At the big comic con events and stuff it is also blatantly apparent how men treat women as lesser parts of that community from the booth babes to treating female journalists attending as merely hired help at the event. Anyway as an example of all this crap, this article kinda sums up some male prejudice at least in the gamer section of geekdom.

3 Ways Women Have Ruined Video Games

I've been following this website for a while and I hope to god it's just a bunch of trolls who run it, but even so many of the views expressed I have heard from the horse's mouth as well.
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:30 PM   #810
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I conceded subjective experience is difficult to quantify.

People should not say mean things. In certain environments - saying such things will get you fired from your job. I just though the cartoon was weak (as I think of propaganda).


So - what of the men that did not bully you? Can you empathize with their perspective?
Yeah they shouldn't say mean things, yet kids still do. Bullying still happens everywhere, and victims are both male and female. Though I have to admit that bullying is rather different with the genders. The males were rude and mean to me, yet the girls are less physical, they're more excluding you from events, it's the more bitchy thing to do.

I can empathize with men that don't bully me, yes. In fact, I used to have more male friends than female until recently. Due to my nature I am usually considered one of the guys.

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Just on the fake geek girl alone, it's painfully apparent guys often see women as invaders to what they consider their male only culture. The vitriol aimed at Anita Sarkeesian for her feminist critique of games is quite shameful. You only need to step into any online game to hear how many young males treat gamers known to be female, from Call of Duty to World of Warcraft.

At the big comic con events and stuff it is also blatantly apparent how men treat women as lesser parts of that community from the booth babes to treating female journalists attending as merely hired help at the event. Anyway as an example of all this crap, this article kinda sums up some male prejudice at least in the gamer section of geekdom.

3 Ways Women Have Ruined Video Games

I've been following this website for a while and I hope to god it's just a bunch of trolls who run it, but even so many of the views expressed I have heard from the horse's mouth as well.
Yeah, true. I used to play Pokemon online(yeah yeah, I know) on servers, and as soon as guys found out I was female you'd have half of them trying to cyber you, and the other half claimgin you're lying and just doing it for the attention(calling you an attentionwhore if you will). It was quite baffling.
Luckily it does not occur with all games, as I am an avid gamer. Don't play COD or WOW though. It's not all women that get badly treated there, the insults flying around to less skilled players are horrible.

There's even a saying that "women on the internet don't exist".

Guess the gamer guys feel threatened that it's not just guys gaming anymore. I really do not understand why else you'd treat others like that. Then again I don't understand the unnecessary insult and rudeness towards other players in general either.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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