Go Scott Brown! - Page 5 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-19-2010, 11:08 PM   #61
Refugee
 
MadelynIris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Craggy Island
Posts: 1,504
Local Time: 06:30 PM
balance in all things
__________________

__________________
MadelynIris is offline  
Old 01-19-2010, 11:15 PM   #62
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 04:30 PM
YouTube - America Rising An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians
__________________

__________________
diamond is offline  
Old 01-19-2010, 11:23 PM   #63
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 05:30 PM
Quote:
"And the message we need to send in dealing with terrorists is... our tax dollars should pay for weapons to stop them and not lawyers to defend them."
--Scott Brown Victory speech
Expect to hear variations on that theme leading up to Nov. It resonates.
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 01-19-2010, 11:40 PM   #64
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 06:30 PM
I most sincerely hope that our "good Republicans" remember that their total lack of civility will likely be returned sevenfold should they eventually retake the Presidency. You have most certainly reset the gold standard of obstructionism--is a "bravo" in order?--which was set before by the GOP during the Clinton administration.

And to think...these were the people upset when every Democrat didn't adore Bush as President, ready to call each of them "treasonous" for daring to criticize "our President." Now that the Democrats are in power, the GOP, rather than issuing calls for "solidarity" as they wanted their fellow Democrats to do during the Bush era, is standing ready to lead an insurgency.

"Bravo," our dear patriots. Benedict Arnold should have taken his notes from you.
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 01-19-2010, 11:43 PM   #65
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 06:30 PM
And, just to note, the Democrats clearly earned their loss in this election. What was Martha Coakley thinking?
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 01-19-2010, 11:54 PM   #66
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,493
Local Time: 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Expect to hear variations on that theme leading up to Nov. It resonates.


it does, especially with a new season of "24" coming up.



i also expect to see lots of white identity politics.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 01-20-2010, 12:01 AM   #67
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Standing on the shore, facing east.
Posts: 18,886
Local Time: 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Expect to hear variations on that theme leading up to Nov. It resonates.
Jesus fucking Christ.
__________________
PhilsFan is online now  
Old 01-20-2010, 12:16 AM   #68
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by melon View Post
I most sincerely hope that our "good Republicans" remember that their total lack of civility will likely be returned sevenfold should they eventually retake the Presidency. You have most certainly reset the gold standard of obstructionism--is a "bravo" in order?--which was set before by the GOP during the Clinton administration.

And to think...these were the people upset when every Democrat didn't adore Bush as President, ready to call each of them "treasonous" for daring to criticize "our President." Now that the Democrats are in power, the GOP, rather than issuing calls for "solidarity" as they wanted their fellow Democrats to do during the Bush era, is standing ready to lead an insurgency.

"Bravo," our dear patriots. Benedict Arnold should have taken his notes from you.
And now the truth.

With a huge majority in the House and a filibuster proof 60 votes in the Senate the Democrats could have passed any-damn-thing they wanted, anytime they wanted. Republicans could have called in sick all year or gone down to Crawford, Texas to help clear brush and the government could have carried on without a hitch.

Republicans couldn't obstruct jack by roll call alone. And since Republicans and conservatives are by definition hayseed doofuses, it couldn't have been their rhetorical skill holding things up.

Maybe, just maybe, Democrats overplayed their hand in trying to pass a far-left agenda when the people just wanted jobs and a sense the country was back on the right track fiscally and economically.

Wonder if they've gotten the message yet? Or will they just blame Coakley and Drudge and Rush and Foxnews and ignore the light coming down the track.
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 01-20-2010, 12:24 AM   #69
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
Jesus fucking Christ.
Exactly why it resonates. It's guaranteed to piss off the pundits and scolds that insist on telling us it's our fault they hate us.
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 01-20-2010, 12:25 AM   #70
Refugee
 
U2387's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,217
Local Time: 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Expect to hear variations on that theme leading up to Nov. It resonates.
Yes, it shows how much of an idiot Scott Brown is.

You people never cease to amaze me with how quick the talking points get from Hannity or Limbaugh to your heads to this forum without any apparent thought put into it.

You do realize that Bush did the same thing with the guy who attempted to shoe bomb a plane from Paris to Florida diverted to Boston? He was prosecuted in federal court, and is in federal prison. So are the 1993 WTC bombers, Zaccarias Moussawi and numerous other captured terrorists- captured under Clinton, Bush and Obama. Any trial of a terrorist through Bush's legally and practically problematic military tribunals has been a mess.

Do you realize that Khalid Sheikh Muhammad, the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks has been tried in such a tribunal and it so far has been a boondoogle? Meanwhile, other terrorists who are much lower on the totem pole than he is are going to federal prison for life or facing the death penalty?

Scott Brown is saying that because it sounds good. Only reason.

Since he is an attorney, he is or should be, well aware of what the US Constitution says. "No person shall be denied due process of the law." Read carefully, not "citizen" , "person." Its not about them, it is about who we are. Read some history. The Nazis were put on trial, the Boston massacre perpetrators were put on trial. Democratic and Republican administrations have non controversially put people on trial in US courts, yes, terrorists too, until these radical nuts on the right looking for a reason to attack Obama came along.

So we have on one side, the Constitution of the United States and years of precedent saying "this is how we handle things," that the accused have the right to their day in court. If the bastards are guilty, why the hell are we worried? We can prove it in the open, in federal court, security sensitive information redacted and there will be no room for Al Qaeda or their ilk to claim we are manipulating, conducting in secret, their usual shit. Remember Bush put Richard Reid in court, a case that factually looks just like the Detroit bomber case.

On the other side, we have a band of idiots, who have never been involved in anything besides running their mouths, never prosecuted, obviously do not read or think of anything beyond the talking points, who are claiming this is wrong. And by the way, taxpayers should not pay for their defense, they stomp and scream!! Well, who the hell do you think is paying to defend them now in the military tribunals? Get ready here: TAXPAYERS! I might add, we also paid $12 million to build the facility they are being tried in, and more to get the judges, lawyers, other personnel down to Cuba.

People do not think.

Now Brown the clown is on his way to DC, with a STRONG,STRONG,STRONG ASSIST FROM MARTHA COAKLEY. This woman should be ashamed, and if you knew her pre 2009, you would be shocked that she ran a race like this.

Obviously, I am no fan of Brown, but my hat is off to him tonight! He ran the better race, against the odds, worked his ass off and it showed. Independents and Democrats who would have gone for Ted Kennedy and do go for John Kerry HAD TO HAVE GONE BROWN IN SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS for him to have won.
__________________
U2387 is offline  
Old 01-20-2010, 12:35 AM   #71
Refugee
 
U2387's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,217
Local Time: 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Exactly why it resonates. It's guaranteed to piss off the pundits and scolds that insist on telling us it's our fault they hate us.
No, no one outside of a few nuts are saying that it is our fault they hate us.

This is not what any TV pundits are suggesting, that's for sure. It is not what anyone here on this forum, that I have seen, is suggesting.

Philsfan saying "jesus christ" is just him acknowledging how stupid it is for you even to bring this up as something that should resonate with voters.

Again, we are defending terrorists with taxpayer money right now, the only difference between that and federal court is federal court is efficient and proven to produce results.

All this is is a stupid talking point that made its way into the speech of a lightweight Senator elect who is increasingly more controlled by the tea party crowd every day.

Has nothing to do with defending terrorist attacks as right, or something that we brought on ourselves.

Tell me one person in politics, Democratic, Republican or otherwise, who has even come close to doing this. The closest anyone has come is Ron Paul in a late 2007 debate. He said something to the effect of "and we wonder why they attack us!" If it was official Democratic Party policy to defend terrorists as having just motives, then you would have a point here. But its not, so you don't!

This is an illogical leap that you make with nothing at all to back it up.
__________________
U2387 is offline  
Old 01-20-2010, 12:53 AM   #72
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 03:30 PM
The guy is tall good looking, gives a great stump speech. He can relate to the common man (and woman) and they relate to him.

If Palin belonged on the ticket in 2008 and if a freshman Senator from Illinois was qualified to run for President in 2008.

Then I say Scott Brown is the person to watch in 2012.
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 01-20-2010, 12:59 AM   #73
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by U2387 View Post
Yes, it shows how much of an idiot Scott Brown is.

You people never cease to amaze me with how quick the talking points get from Hannity or Limbaugh to your heads to this forum without any apparent thought put into it.

You do realize that Bush did the same thing with the guy who attempted to shoe bomb a plane from Paris to Florida diverted to Boston? He was prosecuted in federal court, and is in federal prison. So are the 1993 WTC bombers, Zaccarias Moussawi and numerous other captured terrorists- captured under Clinton, Bush and Obama. Any trial of a terrorist through Bush's legally and practically problematic military tribunals has been a mess.

Do you realize that Khalid Sheikh Muhammad, the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks has been tried in such a tribunal and it so far has been a boondoogle? Meanwhile, other terrorists who are much lower on the totem pole than he is are going to federal prison for life or facing the death penalty?

Scott Brown is saying that because it sounds good. Only reason.

Since he is an attorney, he is or should be, well aware of what the US Constitution says. "No person shall be denied due process of the law." Read carefully, not "citizen" , "person." Its not about them, it is about who we are. Read some history. The Nazis were put on trial, the Boston massacre perpetrators were put on trial. Democratic and Republican administrations have non controversially put people on trial in US courts, yes, terrorists too, until these radical nuts on the right looking for a reason to attack Obama came along.

So we have on one side, the Constitution of the United States and years of precedent saying "this is how we handle things," that the accused have the right to their day in court. If the bastards are guilty, why the hell are we worried? We can prove it in the open, in federal court, security sensitive information redacted and there will be no room for Al Qaeda or their ilk to claim we are manipulating, conducting in secret, their usual shit. Remember Bush put Richard Reid in court, a case that factually looks just like the Detroit bomber case.

On the other side, we have a band of idiots, who have never been involved in anything besides running their mouths, never prosecuted, obviously do not read or think of anything beyond the talking points, who are claiming this is wrong. And by the way, taxpayers should not pay for their defense, they stomp and scream!! Well, who the hell do you think is paying to defend them now in the military tribunals? Get ready here: TAXPAYERS! I might add, we also paid $12 million to build the facility they are being tried in, and more to get the judges, lawyers, other personnel down to Cuba.

People do not think.

Now Brown the clown is on his way to DC, with a STRONG,STRONG,STRONG ASSIST FROM MARTHA COAKLEY. This woman should be ashamed, and if you knew her pre 2009, you would be shocked that she ran a race like this.

Obviously, I am no fan of Brown, but my hat is off to him tonight! He ran the better race, against the odds, worked his ass off and it showed. Independents and Democrats who would have gone for Ted Kennedy and do go for John Kerry HAD TO HAVE GONE BROWN IN SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS for him to have won.
First, I disagree, but thanks for explaining your reasons beyond a line or two. I know, as do some others, it takes some time. Some good points but I would remind you that military law is different than civil law. Foreign born enemy combatants captured on the battlefield or in the act of espionage do not enjoy the rights of civil law.

Richard Reid was caught just a few months after 9/11. Well before, I believe, the military tribunal system for terrorists was up and running. Zaccarias Moussawi was indeed tried in federal court and what a circus that turned out to be. Should have been a teachable moment but I guess not. As for treating the Blind Sheik and the 1993 WTC bombers as criminals rather than terrorists, all that got us was 9/11.

Bush doesn't get a pass in my eyes. KSM wanted to plead guilty and be executed and why we didn't accommodate him I don't know.

Finally, as for Nazis put on trial after the war. Yes, but are you aware FDR used military commissions to try and execute German saboteurs who were caught in the United States during WWII?

As for Scott Brown. May be the next breakout star of the GOP or the next Rino. I only know him because he edged me out in 1982 as America’s Sexiest Man according to Cosmopolitan magazine.
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 01-20-2010, 01:09 AM   #74
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by U2387 View Post
No, no one outside of a few nuts are saying that it is our fault they hate us.

This is not what any TV pundits are suggesting, that's for sure. It is not what anyone here on this forum, that I have seen, is suggesting.

Philsfan saying "jesus christ" is just him acknowledging how stupid it is for you even to bring this up as something that should resonate with voters.

Again, we are defending terrorists with taxpayer money right now, the only difference between that and federal court is federal court is efficient and proven to produce results.

All this is is a stupid talking point that made its way into the speech of a lightweight Senator elect who is increasingly more controlled by the tea party crowd every day.

Has nothing to do with defending terrorist attacks as right, or something that we brought on ourselves.

Tell me one person in politics, Democratic, Republican or otherwise, who has even come close to doing this. The closest anyone has come is Ron Paul in a late 2007 debate. He said something to the effect of "and we wonder why they attack us!" If it was official Democratic Party policy to defend terrorists as having just motives, then you would have a point here. But its not, so you don't!

This is an illogical leap that you make with nothing at all to back it up.
Could of swore I heard someone from time to time say Gitmo was no less than a terrorist recruiting tool.
And the anti-war Left tells us that all terrorists come with a laundry lists of complaints, grievances and fatwas which we need to be sensitive to.
__________________
INDY500 is offline  
Old 01-20-2010, 01:17 AM   #75
Refugee
 
U2387's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,217
Local Time: 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
And now the truth.

With a huge majority in the House and a filibuster proof 60 votes in the Senate the Democrats could have passed any-damn-thing they wanted, anytime they wanted. Republicans could have called in sick all year or gone down to Crawford, Texas to help clear brush and the government could have carried on without a hitch.

Republicans couldn't obstruct jack by roll call alone. And since Republicans and conservatives are by definition hayseed doofuses, it couldn't have been their rhetorical skill holding things up.

Maybe, just maybe, Democrats overplayed their hand in trying to pass a far-left agenda when the people just wanted jobs and a sense the country was back on the right track fiscally and economically.

Wonder if they've gotten the message yet? Or will they just blame Coakley and Drudge and Rush and Foxnews and ignore the light coming down the track.
Well, they could not have passed anything they wanted. They had to get Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson, of their own caucus on board. Which required bribes, not a good thing. Now, the fact that the Dems can not get party unity, the reasons can be argued 1000 ways. Maybe, instead of a bribe, Harry Reid should have gone to these 2, grabbed them by the balls and said you vote for this, or watch your state go down the tubes. Like LBJ and Tom Delay did in their days. However, they did not have 60 until April anyway, so after the stimulus, which they needed Specter(then R) and Snowe(R) to get passed. Maybe this is a new concept to you Republicans, but the Democrats are not an ideologically pure, party line slam dunk 100% unified party. We actually have differences and debate, unlike the Republicans, who are apparently ready to use 41 to keep anything at all from even coming to the floor for debate! Go ahead and vote against the health care bill til your heart is content, but to stop it from even coming to a vote. Melon is right- the Democrats never did that to the Republicans, and now the Republicans are ready to do it to the Democrats, without even offering alternatives. Just screaming knuckle dragging, tea bagging nuts calling their shots.

What Melon is saying is that the Republicans have promised to deliver on obstruction promises as soon as they get to 41, and he is contrasting that with the Democratic record when Republicans were in charge. The Democrats only threatened filibuster once, on judicial nominees, and Republicans cried and bitched and tried to eliminate the filibuster until finally the Gang of 14 moderate adults got them to play nice. So he is not wrong.

Where you are wrong is in saying that the Democrats have pursued a far left agenda. Lets look at the facts, and I want you to respond to all of the following with what you think. This is the "agenda" that has dominated since the Democrats took over :

1.)Issue:The economy and fiscal responsibility
What Obama inherited: $1.2 trillion dollar deficit, $10 trillion debt. Economy in the tank, stock market plunging, losing 500K jobs per month.
What they did about it: The economic stimulus package, which economists from liberal, conservative and moderate circles agree was needed. In fact, McCain adviser Mark Zandi of Moody's economy was quoted saying we would have 12-14% unemployment if the stimulus was not passed. No left wing agenda here, just doing what he regrettably had to do when faced with what he inherited.

What you need to understand as you obviously do not: GDP=Consumption +Investment (in capital)+Government spending + Net exports as represented by D=C+I+G+(X-M) where x is exports and m is imports.

If the private sector is not investing, the consumer is not consuming, and the products of the non existent investment are not being exported, then the only thing left to put money into the economy is government spending.

Obama knew this, economists knew this, and hence the stimulus. Obama is on record saying he did not come in fired up and ready to spend $787 billion, he had to to prevent a depression. If the economy got worse, than revenues would have fallen even more and we would be in more debt today. Do nothing Republicans would have preferred this approach.

Look at the rest of his record on spending: the health care plan is deficit neutral and reduces costs of medicare and medicaid in the long run, he has proposed to cut farm subsidies, has ordered over 100 programs ended and ordered all federal agencies to make cuts. He has taken on defense contractors and their allies in Congress, many of whom are Democrats, on insisting on wasteful programs that the military does not want or need.

You do not have a leg to stand on here, Obama has been the clear, consistent supporter of pay as you go, of getting entitlements under control, of taking on spending even when it has constituencies, etc. Where were you the whole time Bush was spending us into record deficits? Where was the tea party? This movement is not one calling for fiscal responsibility, if that were the case, it would have started a long time ago. Its a group of right wing nuts bent on personal destruction of Obama.

As for people being fed up with not having jobs and strong growth back, its not Obama's fault. No economist would claim, and Obama certainly did not claim, that the unemployment rate would be 5% this year and jobs would come gushing back. The unemployment rate ALWAYS PEAKS AFTER A RECESSION HAS OFFICIALLY ENDED AND WAS BOUND TO GO UP NO MATTER WHAT POLICIES OBAMA PURSUED. Voters looking to send a message that they want a perfect economy in only 1 year are either ignorant or in need of going back and watching what Obama said to them in January. The recession he inherited made it economically impossible for things to be great by now, but they have improved. We are now losing less jobs per month, real growth has returned(the recession is over) and the stock market has improved dramatically.

2.)Issue: The environment/global warming
What Obama inherited: A Bush administration and Republicans in denial that the situation exists, left wing nuts insisting we get rid of cars, have a harmful carbon tax, etc.
What they did: Proposed cap and trade, the same plan that the 2008 version of John McCain supported, along with numerous Republicans. Cap and Trade is an efficient, sensible system that is the middle ground between doing nothing and taxing industries to their death. It allows those who can most efficiently reduce pollution to do so, and lets others buy and trade pollution credits if that is more efficient. All market based, and incentives focused. This will create many jobs, bring in revenue, and was originally proposed in the US by McCain and Lieberman. Neither of those guys can be accused of having a left wing agenda.

3.)Issue:Health Care
What Obama inherited: A mess, double digit percentage increases in costs every year, insurance companies and lobbyists allowed to do as they please, squeezing small businesses, workers, etc.
What they did:Proposed a middle way, building on what works in the current system, changing what does not, expanding coverage, regulating unfair insurance company practices and making Medicare and providers who depend on it better. Increased competition. Listen closely: Not single payer, not government take over, not death panels, a down the middle, deficit neutral bill that is not perfect, but the biggest step forward in 45 years.

4.)Issue:Terrorism
Continued the war on terror, record drone strikes in Pakistan, a new strategy with reinforcements in Afghanistan, shifting out of Iraq and arresting terrorist suspects at a faster rate than Bush ever dreamed of. The kid out in CO who was arrested was quite possibly an Obama administration prevention of an attack.

So if you really look at what the agenda items have been, and what they have done, there is no extreme left wing agenda to be had. Unless you want to argue that the Democrats have pursued different priorities than the ones mentioned above or argue that what they have done somehow represents a left wing agenda. An attempt at either would be laughable.

The extreme left wing agenda is another product of the right wing spin machine that is still(despite being out of power) very effective at reaching voters, Republicans, moderates and Democrats. It falls apart when examined objectively.

If you are looking for a reason here in MA, it is simple: Coakley sucked. If you want to make it a national referendum, its safe to say this: most people are incapable of understanding that recovery would take time, they think that things are supposed to be automatically better because we elected someone different, and they harbor some illusions that Obama promised it would be A OK by now. Where he has had influence, he has made things better, and the numbers show that. But again, there is absolutely no economically feasible way in which we would have low unemployment and jobs coming out the ear by now.

Voters, especially the vast majority who do are not tied to one party, have no patience or long term view at all, and will just change based on what they hear on the news. They no longer remember what he inherited, just that things are not back to normal NOW. Obama leveled with them, treated them like adults and told them to get ready for more inevitable bad news, and is paying the price for it now.
__________________

__________________
U2387 is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MERGED ----> James Brown hospitalized + R.I.P. James Brown.... + James Brown Dead... europop2005 Lemonade Stand Archive 66 01-02-2007 03:23 PM
Nets fired Byron Scott after 2 straight Eastern Conference Titles Headache in a Suitcase Lemonade Stand Archive 6 01-27-2004 10:10 AM
Adam's Camouflage Pants... Lemonite PLEBA Archive 52 01-14-2002 12:41 AM
Who was at Oakland 2?- share the ASOH story!!! cainz Everything You Know Is Wrong Archive 2 11-17-2001 08:21 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com