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Old 02-08-2014, 11:17 AM   #871
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Certainly it is different from country-to-country, and we cannot ignore that. But the finality of the death penalty combined with the stunningly high rate with which innocent people are put on death row makes any argument for the death penalty in the United States completely absurd. The death penalty needs to be abolished yesterday. The debate is over.

My states has executed three people in the last fifty years. It's also released three innocent people who were set to be put to death. That's a 50 percent rate of accuracy, and that's without even looking into the cases of the executed three, who also could have been innocent.
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Old 02-08-2014, 11:43 AM   #872
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That inaccuracy is pretty damn striking. I had no idea it was this high. If that is the case, it would be a horrible mistake indeed.

If they'd just make life sentences life here, more people would be content with the system. Right now, murderers and rapists can walk free after only a few years of jail. More and more people are starting to express their repulsion towards that, but nothing is being done in politics.
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Old 02-08-2014, 12:11 PM   #873
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I don't think it's quite that "bad" on a national level, but it doesn't really matter. Our justice system is based around guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt," not guilt "for certain."

Your system certainly sounds like it's in need of an overhaul.
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:37 PM   #874
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I don't think it's quite that "bad" on a national level, but it doesn't really matter. Our justice system is based around guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt," not guilt "for certain."

Your system certainly sounds like it's in need of an overhaul.
Guilt isn't in question in this case.
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Old 02-09-2014, 09:12 PM   #875
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Explosions at the Boston Marathon

No, but it's in doubt in enough cases to doubt the DP as a matter of policy. And what good are principles when you throw them out the window in a case like this?

My objections to the DP are mostly practical, slightly philosophical, and nothing to do with morality. It's not a deterrent, it is not applied equally (it's overtly racist), it's more expensive, and verdicts can be wrong.

There's also the irony of you trusting a government to execute people when you think it's awful for this same government to require its citizens to have health insurance. But I suppose we're all pro-government when it suits our cultural prejudices and positionings.

States with the DP have higher crime and murder rates anyway.
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Old 02-09-2014, 09:16 PM   #876
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Guilt isn't in question in this case.
Guilt is not ever certain according to our law. There is no option for a jury to say the defendant is 100 percent guilty. Only beyond a reasonable doubt.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:16 PM   #877
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:01 PM   #878
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What the fuck am I supposed to do with that?
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:07 PM   #879
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:21 AM   #880
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Certainly it is different from country-to-country, and we cannot ignore that. But the finality of the death penalty combined with the stunningly high rate with which innocent people are put on death row makes any argument for the death penalty in the United States completely absurd. The death penalty needs to be abolished yesterday. The debate is over.

My states has executed three people in the last fifty years. It's also released three innocent people who were set to be put to death. That's a 50 percent rate of accuracy, and that's without even looking into the cases of the executed three, who also could have been innocent.
To be fair, it's not really a 50 percent rate. You have to take into account ALL of the people on death row, vs the three innocent people. You're skewing the data at the moment.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:51 AM   #881
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A system that would allow ANY percentage of innocent people to be not only convicted but executed is deeply, deeply flawed.

Frankly I don't know how anyone can be pro death penalty in the United States given the undeniable truth that people have been and continue to be imprisoned and executed for crimes they didn't commit.
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Old 02-10-2014, 03:04 AM   #882
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It shouldn't be something as common as it is, that's for sure. Forgot who just mentioned it but... huge difference between "beyond reasonable doubt" and "proof."
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Old 02-10-2014, 04:50 PM   #883
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To be fair, it's not really a 50 percent rate. You have to take into account ALL of the people on death row, vs the three innocent people. You're skewing the data at the moment.
Sure it is, and I thought I made that pretty clear in the way I worded it. But the death penalty is nothing if not a discussion of finality, which is why I wanted to point it in that direction.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:20 PM   #884
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What the fuck am I supposed to do with that?
Reasonable doubt is the minimum requirement but there are cases, including confessions, that are indisputable. The more doubt the more likely a death sentence will be overturned or reduced by the way. This is one of those cases where there is no doubt to his guilt.

Or are you telling us there is some doubt?
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:23 PM   #885
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Oh, so now executing criminals is a moral imperative?
Criminals, no. Mass murders, terrorists, serial or sadistic rapists; absolutely. Call it... social justice.
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