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Old 07-29-2010, 09:35 PM   #91
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Great post. You know, I'm getting slightly tired of this 'teenagers are brats these days' thesis, some of which I've seen creeping into some of the other posters' contributions on this thread. Last time I checked, the adults, the people who actually run the world, particularly the pre baby-boom generation, the baby boom generation, and even our own generation of thirtysomethings (scarily, we're now in charge, or soon will be) haven't done a spectacularly competent job of managing the world. I don't have kids, but if one day I do, I'd like to think that I'd raise them with a challenging, questioning mentality.
Really? Are we reading the same thread? Because I went back and read through the recent posts and I saw far more criticism of adults than kids. And who has suggested that kids shouldn't ask questions or challenge the status quo?
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Old 07-29-2010, 09:56 PM   #92
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Really? Are we reading the same thread? Because I went back and read through the recent posts and I saw far more criticism of adults than kids. And who has suggested that kids shouldn't ask questions or challenge the status quo?
I really have no interest in a row, my opinion is simply that a parent or teacher assaulting kids is not likely to be an effective form of discipline; at worst it may potentially damage them psychologically or physically, at best, based partially on direct experience as I posted before, it probably doesn't work - but, anyway, the thread I was reading was the one where you said:

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I guess that's how I think spanking should be applied. So rarely for only the most serious of issues so that whatever happens to cause the punishment never happens again, and the message sticks with you for a lifetime.
Not singling you out, there were a few other posts in similar vein.
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Old 07-29-2010, 10:55 PM   #93
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I really have no interest in a row, my opinion is simply that a parent or teacher assaulting kids is not likely to be an effective form of discipline; at worst it may potentially damage them psychologically or physically, at best, based partially on direct experience as I posted before, it probably doesn't work - but, anyway, the thread I was reading was the one where you said:



Not singling you out, there were a few other posts in similar vein.
I'm not spoiling for a fight either. I agree 100% with you that a parent or teacher assualting kids is neither effective nor right. That you're drawing the exact opposite conclusion about my views means that you're really not understanding what I'm saying at all. And that's fine. I can accept that; I ain't mad at ya
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Old 07-30-2010, 11:26 AM   #94
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i do think kids are brattier these days, but many of the characteristics of the brat -- questioning authority, not taking "no" for an answer, a belief in the self, confidence -- while they make for irritating kids, these are qualities that are more likely to help you be successful in the modern world than being submissive, soft-spoken, insecure, rule adhering, and more concerned with the letter of the law rather than the spirit.

if we could divide these lines so cleanly.

of course there are downsides to being a brat -- it's awfully disconcerting when you get out into the "real world" and no one cares about your opinions or thoughts and they want you to just shut up and do your job, for now -- and there's a sense of entitlement that likely needs to be beaten (metaphorically) out of you, which it probably will, but in the long run, self-confidence and a belief in one's own self-worth and the willingness to find one's own answers, when tempered with maturity and good humor and respect for others, will probably get you further.
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Old 07-30-2010, 09:39 PM   #95
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oh the irony
As the plot thickens.....

Thanks for making me laugh! You have a great sense of humor.
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Old 07-30-2010, 09:47 PM   #96
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This is just my two cents.

I have raise a son and have a wonderful relationship with my daughter. I chose through marriage. I'm not perfect, far from it. But, I have always treated my children and other family members with love and respect. Sure, we had set limits. We were very clear as to what you can do and what is not acceptable. My husband and I never spanked either child. We did our best to set a good example.

If you want your child to be polite, then you have to be polite and etc.

Another point, tell your children that you love them and love is not giving them free reign to engage activities that will harm them. Spend time with them. Let them know that you trust and believe in them. And finally, give them roots and wings.
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Old 07-30-2010, 11:31 PM   #97
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And finally, give them roots and wings.
And this is the ultimate balancing act...

It's a line that's almost impossible to define.
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Old 07-31-2010, 09:45 AM   #98
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roots.....a family that loves them

wings....the ability to pursue their dreams
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Old 07-31-2010, 10:03 AM   #99
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^ and don't be a "helicopter" parent...drives me nuts!!!
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Old 07-31-2010, 03:15 PM   #100
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As the plot thickens.....

Thanks for making me laugh! You have a great sense of humor.
Good to see you've got one too
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Old 08-18-2010, 09:03 AM   #101
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(CNN) -- Police in Albuquerque, New Mexico, questioned a Georgia woman after witnesses said they saw her slap her 13-month-old child during a flight, according to police reports.

A flight attendant on a Southwest Airlines flight from Dallas, Texas, to Albuquerque told police she saw the woman "strike the child with an open hand on the face in an attempt to get the child to stop crying," a police report states. The flight attendant also said she saw the mother slapping the child on her legs.

The woman appeared "agitated," the flight attendant said, and the husband was yelling at his wife to shut up due to her screaming at the child, the report states.

During the flight, the flight attendant temporarily took the child from the mother so that the husband could exit his seat and take the child to the back of the plane to attempt to calm her down.

The baby girl had a black eye, which the parents said was from a dog bite from an uncle's Great Dane, the report said.

Both parents were questioned by police and then released on their own recognizance after medical personnel examined the child for injuries. The family then boarded another flight.

Another passenger told police that they heard slaps, and the mother tell her daughter to "shut up" and that "I didn't hit you that hard."

Several passengers were upset by the behavior, the flight attendant told police.

According to the police report, the woman told officers she only slapped her child after she was kicked. And she said she put her finger on the child's mouth in an attempt to get her to be quiet.

Asked if she thought it was okay to hit a 13-month-old baby, the woman nodded to police and said, "She's my daughter," according to the police report.

The flight arrived in Albuquerque around 4:30 p.m. Monday.

In a statement Tuesday, Southwest said that, "The family was having an altercation and their young child was upset. Our flight attendant offered to hold the baby to soothe the child. Out of precaution for the child, Southwest asked that the local authorities meet the aircraft in Albuquerque."
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Old 08-18-2010, 09:30 AM   #102
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of course there are downsides to being a brat -- it's awfully disconcerting when you get out into the "real world" and no one cares about your opinions or thoughts and they want you to just shut up and do your job, for now -- .

yeah, I try to share this concept with my pre-teen. So far, little luck. And if I'm honest with myself, I didn't listen to much advice growing up. It wasn't until I was almost 30 did I realize, "dang, they were right about that."
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:41 PM   #103
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How about this case that's been all over the news? And that guy is a judge. Too late for abuse charges because she's 23 now and it happened 7 years ago (five year statute of limitations). She also has cerebral palsy He did that because she was downloading music illegally. He says she posted it now because he threatened to take her Mercedes away, and that she should have more than a part time job in a video game store. Her mother says she went along with the beatings because he controlled her.

I don't care why she posted it, you are one sick mother f'er "your honor". I was hit with a belt by my father, so I can't even watch it. Just what I saw on tv upset me enough.

They even age restricted the video on You Tube so I can't embed it

Judge William Adams beats daughter for using the internet - YouTube
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Old 11-04-2011, 03:15 PM   #104
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^ LJT posted it in the "Absolutely Disgusted" thread, which is probably more where it belongs; I haven't watched it and don't wish to, but from the descriptions I've read it demonstrates "disciplining" your child about as much as forcing him or her to live on starvation rations would demonstrate "nourishing" your child.

I am struck by how many comments I've seen from people who were themselves abused as children that they wanted to watch the video but had to stop a little way in, because they got flashbacks or anxiety attacks. Some of them said that the screaming and swearing at the child was the worst part both in their own memories and in watching the video, that being repeatedly reminded of the depth of their parent's contempt for them was far worse than the many welts and bruises they got.
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Old 11-04-2011, 04:24 PM   #105
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This is often an effect of dissociation, a coping strategy developed by many children, and sometimes also adults, chronically abused by their parents, spouses or whoever. Disassociation could be roughly explained as leaving one's body during the time of abuse. It makes you somewhat immune against physical pain or feelings, but what it usually cannot save you from is the mental effects. Generally, mental abuse is much harder to deal with and rarely heals without therapy, whereas physical effects, if not chronic, disappear after some time.
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