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Old 06-24-2015, 10:55 PM   #31
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Confederate Flag

I think, for example, Europens know that their flags represent more than just colonialism. It's absolutely a part of their history, but it's not all their history.

White supremacy and treason is pretty much all the Confederacy's history. It is more analogous to Nazi Germany in that specific sense. I am not at all comparing the two except in the stated limited manner.

It's not all of Southern history. It's a complex, beguiling, enchanted and haunted region of the U.S. It's given us likely our best writers and arguably best cuisine. So I appreciate that many feel the flag represents not just 1861-1865.

But they're wrong. IMHO.
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Old 06-25-2015, 12:10 AM   #32
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The South is a beautiful place in a lot of ways, but that flag has got to go. It's not much in the big picture, but it's a baby step forward at least.
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Old 06-25-2015, 12:57 AM   #33
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Not really my place, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by iron yuppie View Post
My gut instinct is that focusing on the flag is something of an empty or placatory gesture that distracts from much more serious issues involving race and class in this country.
...I feel like this is a pretty worthy point.

Tony Abbott wants to recognise Indigenous Australians in our constitution. That's a great thing that all good people support. But if it happens under his leadership I'll be digusted if all of a sudden he's considered some sort of Aboriginal ally when really all it is is a placatory gesture (albeit one of huge importance) and then the myriad issues we have in this country with regards to Aboriginal identity and so on are forgotten about. It's an easy way for right-wing commentators to then say "see, Tony Abbott did something positive. He's not an arsehole". I would think that the Confederate flag being banned could lead to similar things? Right-wing commentators saying "this is good, we're not racist, we live in a post-racial society so let's all just get along (but hey you blacks you're still kinda inferior)"
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Old 06-25-2015, 01:35 AM   #34
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You might also find an ally here, iYup:

Killer Mike on Confederate Flag: "You Do Not Fly the Flag of Losers Over the Winners' Country" | News | Pitchfork
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:12 AM   #35
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Killer Mike on point

I agree with him that although i find it distasteful, you really shouldn't ban individuals from flying any flags in their own homes (yes, even Nazi flags - if you want to display a giant banner that says "I'm the worst kind of asshole" then you're entitled to do so but you also aren't protected from the consequences of said action), but it makes zero sense that it should be flying over a governmental building.
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Old 06-25-2015, 02:35 PM   #36
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I read an interesting argument/discussion on Twitter last night that talked about how to dismiss the flag "victory" as "not the real issue" discounts decades and decades of work and activism that many people put into trying to get the Confederate flag removed from general existence.

While it's true that it's just a symbol of the pervasive racism and isn't going to magically fix anything, it's still a huge deal to finally have some movement on it.
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Old 06-25-2015, 03:12 PM   #37
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Seriously agreed. I remember being a kid the last time this was a huge issue. One state, I don't remember which, ended up making the flag a tiny portion of their state flag instead of the whole thing and it was a huge deal. It has bugged me for most of my life that I haven't heard of much progress since. I guess I'm just glad to see there's some movement here again.

Now if only this whole $20 bill thing would get resolved
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Old 06-25-2015, 03:36 PM   #38
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i know this is a thread about the Confederate flag, but that's the problem.

it should be a thread about guns and how they are a threat to public safety.
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Old 06-25-2015, 03:43 PM   #39
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Anyone who gets bent out of shape about a piece of cloth -- any of them, for any reason -- is misplacing importance into symbolism.

Anyone who stomps on or burns a flag to make a point is just as much of an idiot as those who proudly wave as big of a flag as they can in their front yard.

Its just a piece of freaking cloth. With that being said, knowing that people actually do, for some stupid reason, but into symbolism... the flag probably had no place being there at all. Obnoxious shit, really.
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Old 06-27-2015, 10:23 AM   #40
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Incredible. What a moment.

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Old 06-27-2015, 03:04 PM   #41
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That was fucking awesome.

Less awesome:

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Old 06-27-2015, 03:36 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobl04 View Post
Incredible. What a moment.



a net - minus
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Old 06-27-2015, 03:56 PM   #43
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That was fucking awesome.

Less awesome:



they wanted that image so that racists can post it on Facebook and say, "SEE! BLACK PEOPLE LIKE THE CONFEDERATE FLAG TOO."
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Old 06-27-2015, 04:39 PM   #44
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The problem was never that the flag exist and is displayed.

The problem is that it is displayed on state property under color of law.

It can only be removed by color of law. And this is the direction it is going. This person, these people have played into the hands of pro-flag people.
as useful as the trans-gender heckler that crashed Obama's event.



Of course the state employee does his job. And I am sure he will feel much better when he gets to take it down for the final time.
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Old 06-27-2015, 05:15 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iron yuppie View Post
The history of the symbols doesn't matter because the nature of symbolism is to be fluid. What matters is the multiplicity of interpretations in the present. Banning or discouraging the Confederate flag does nothing to ease racism and racial tension in the south the same way that restricting the swastika in Europe has done little to nothing to obstruct Neo-Nazism and other far-right groups.
have partly disagree w you.

To have to see everyday a symbol on a government building that did symbolize the Southern way of life - the system of slavery (among other things) that some people WANT TO restore _ See articles on the extreme extreme religious Right( cant think of the general term-- oh wait Christian Dominionism yeah that's one of them.

Irving like your Stars & Bars Rainbow flag Example as a different but same type of in your face officially approved --
a similar type of effrontery.

That awful to see that every day since institutional and personal rascim
still both exist in The South AND The North.
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