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Old 07-05-2010, 12:53 PM   #46
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Of course both sides are pointing at each other with the same accusations leaving no resolution.

That's why it is "normal" to discuss, rather than throw things . In the end, one can agree to disagree.

Time will tell, but I don't see the ocean any closer to my house than I did 15 years ago. The weather is no different than it was 15 years ago. So I guess they havve to keep resetting the clock.

The one thing that bugs me about the Climate Crisis, is why the alarmist sit there and let them chop down the rainforrest. The rain forrest is a lot smaller than it was 15 years ago, but it has nothing to do with the weather.
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Old 07-05-2010, 01:08 PM   #47
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I'm just some guy. I'm young, I'm a college student. I don't make money or lose money right now based on how oil does or how Greenpeace does or how new green jobs are created or not. I have no direct connection to anything on this issue.

I'm just a guy who thinks there are very valid concerns about what we're doing to our environment that are being dismissed because the politics has caused portions of environmentalists to go over-the-top. I have not a connection in the world that gives me a reason to be on this side other than my concerns through reading up on the issue. To suggest otherwise is laughable.
Yeah but you're willing to admit portions of environmentalists go over-the-top. Those portions unfortunately influence IPCC reports which are the basis for a political cash grab. I think we agreed before that developing green energy is a good thing for many other reasons. Therefore I don't include you in that category. But it's not laughable to point out that many people want to make billions off of cap and trade for a non-disaster.
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Old 07-05-2010, 01:14 PM   #48
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That's why it is "normal" to discuss, rather than throw things . In the end, one can agree to disagree.

Time will tell, but I don't see the ocean any closer to my house than I did 15 years ago. The weather is no different than it was 15 years ago. So I guess they havve to keep resetting the clock.

The one thing that bugs me about the Climate Crisis, is why the alarmist sit there and let them chop down the rainforrest. The rain forrest is a lot smaller than it was 15 years ago, but it has nothing to do with the weather.
Yeah but there are professionals who get paid to comment on it and I already wasted hours on many of these believers and they are going to believe what they want and alarmism is their tool. It's like trying to debate with a megaphone with an agenda. The paid commentators and funded scientists are already doing this debate and making most of the headway.

But by all means if you find it fun to prove them wrong we already have a thread right here you can peruse on top of what we have already learned recently about many faults of the IPCC reports.

BBC: What Happened to Global Warming?

Have fun.
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Old 07-05-2010, 01:19 PM   #49
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And I've wasted too many hours going over the same talking points that get belched out by the denialist mill.

It's always the same conspiratorial and obscurantist rubbish. I think my ability to have changed my mind on climate change is a better demonstration of free thinking than any Lomborg or Lindzen article which gets posted.
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Old 07-05-2010, 01:34 PM   #50
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right out of the playbook .
And which playbook is it that you are using?

The one that says make up your numbers/fact and when people ask you to back them up ignore them. Even when it's as bold and stupid as a high seat making an announcement that he's leaving. Tell them you have evidence that you don't have and then when they ask for sources tell them it's all out there to find. No lie is too big. Don't say otherwise and they might think you're a doctor.

Because that's a great playbook. What a joke...
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Old 07-05-2010, 01:36 PM   #51
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Yeah but you're willing to admit portions of environmentalists go over-the-top. Those portions unfortunately influence IPCC reports which are the basis for a political cash grab. I think we agreed before that developing green energy is a good thing for many other reasons. Therefore I don't include you in that category. But it's not laughable to point out that many people want to make billions off of cap and trade for a non-disaster.
But how many people on that side of the argument are in a position to make any money off of it?
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Old 07-05-2010, 03:21 PM   #52
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You're wasting your time. The science has been proven junk over and over again. I have hours in another thread that refutes their beliefs ad nauseum. You're talking to fellow travelers who looked at the environment as the best place to get people to give up their freedom (because who's against the environment?). There is no way they are going to give this up until the defeat is so obvious to even the most ignorant person or if they find another cause that leads to the same end then they will switch to that. Alarmism is the key to getting funds and has been this way for decades with Greenpeace and WWF. Both of these organizations have horrible records of prediction and have been dubious sources for IPCC reports. This is why anyone who hopes for freedom is hoping Republicans take enough seats in Congress so we can move on with our lives in the real world. It's like arguing with big brother.

Apparently this guy has no worries about CO2 emissions to go to the world cup so neither will I:

YouTube - Leonardo DiCaprio 2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa(Germany/Argentia )





Yes, I know. Maurice Strong, who wrote this BS was saying the same crap in 1971.. The end is near. He clearly writes what the purpose of all this is. He neglects to say he made his money in oil and gas, and strip mining . seems to me that is a bit hypocritical.

Carbon footprint while traveling . Isn't it amazing how Al Gore now has a jet, all the actors and such travel all over the place, not to mention what a rock tour does as to carbon footprint.

Cap and Trade is a money transfer, not to who they say, but to someones( multiple) "bank accounts." It is for the benefit of Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan , and a host of other" greeddy wall street fat cats" that everyone thinks are about to be reformed. Uh huh. The connection to the treasury secretary alone is astounding . times that by 100 as to the rest of the Chicago connection. we all know how honest their politicians are. 3 govs i a row, indicted. That has to be a record.

I agree about the science. If you look at the CSD's in the UN 21 plan, it is like a who's who of special interests .

I would love to see the thread though. Can you link it?

Good post BTW. Until they get their first 15,000 electric bill, they will never believe it .

Californians who were around during Enron, should already know. Maybe they forgot over time.... I respect peoples right to views, but this, I cannot understand, with as much information that is out there, they can still fall for this .

ahh missed Mick. I knew he was there. I doubt he walked.
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Old 07-05-2010, 03:54 PM   #53
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I would love to see the thread though. Can you link it?
I linked it in my last post. Here it is again. The whole debate going back to October 2009.:

BBC: What Happened to Global Warming?

Have fun. They are going to call you "obscure", take your posts out of context, ignore facts, say your sources are distored and biased and theirs is not and like Prince Charles and Leonardo DiCaprio they will burn as much or more energy than you. If you cut corners and read less they will take your comments out of context even more. If you read more than them you will win the argument after lots of time wasted to be greeted by silence. In the end no side will give in.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:05 PM   #54
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So there's celebrities that jump on issue/cause bandwagons and are hypocritical in their support. So what? Surprise, nothing new there. Doesn't mean the issue or cause themselves are any less valid.

Angela
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:35 PM   #55
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But how many people on that side of the argument are in a position to make any money off of it?
I ask this again, because as long as you're talking about hypocritical celebrities you're missing the point.
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:01 PM   #56
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But how many people on that side of the argument are in a position to make any money off of it?
Anyone who can get a "green job" via government transfers of wealth will benefit and it will be at the expense of economic growth. Anyone who doesn't benefit from this and supports these policies because they say they are generally concerned about the environment are shooting themselves in the foot. Millionaire Celebrities don't really care because they have enough money to pay increased taxes or energy prices but most everyone else is much more price sensitive.
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:04 PM   #57
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So there's celebrities that jump on issue/cause bandwagons and are hypocritical in their support. So what? Surprise, nothing new there. Doesn't mean the issue or cause themselves are any less valid.

Angela
It does matter. If people can't walk the walk don't expect people with less money do so either.
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:04 PM   #58
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Anyone who can get a "green job" via government transfers of wealth will benefit and it will be at the expense of economic growth. Anyone who doesn't benefit from this and supports these policies because they say they are generally concerned about the environment are shooting themselves in the foot.
Are military and NASA jobs just transfers of wealth as well?
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:10 PM   #59
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It does matter. If people can't walk the walk don't expect people with less money do so either.
Anyone whose actions completely mirror that of a celebrity they follow day in and day out is an idiot. If you give up on a cause because some of the celebrities involved give up or don't walk the walk, then that's your problem. There's still plenty of people with not a lot of money on them that do whatever they can to support a cause or an issue, and they don't care if they get celebrity endorsements or not. They may not be vocal about it most of the time, lest it come off as preachy or whatever, but they still get involved. The issue itself is still important, it just happened to have some dumb people attached to it because they like the notoriety and attention and like looking as though they care. It's an unfortunate side effect sometimes, sadly.

Angela
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:11 PM   #60
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Are military and NASA jobs just transfers of wealth as well?
Paying people to do nothing (while they pretend to save the world) is hardly the same thing. Military mistakes and NASA waste can be criticized just the same as CO2 alarmism. Taxpayers don't grow on trees. There is also a political dimension involving world governance that would be a challenge to sovereignty. Also forcing enormous money on unproven technologies carries the risk that everyone will invest in them and when the bubble bursts (some of these technologies suck) we'll have more people who don't have savings for retirement.
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