Canadian politics maybe getting interesting! - Page 7 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-02-2008, 10:29 PM   #91
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
purpleoscar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In right wing paranoia
Posts: 7,597
Local Time: 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VintagePunk View Post
Just because you're in the bastion of Conservatism doesn't mean that much of the rest of the country isn't left. I'm not sure how old you are or how long you've lived here (you've mentioned your father is an immigrant, I'm not sure if you are too?) but this country has been mainly left for a long time, and will continue to be. Further, the economics you preach, and the sources you trot out on a regular basis are not the definitive answer to the entire profession, no matter how much you may like to pretend they are. People should save? Yeah, that's common sense. But beyond that, you're guessing, like a lot of other people. It's laughable that you think you have all the answers to the economic problems currently facing most nations in the world. You're offering opinions, and nothing more.
I look at the history of Keynesian economics and then I infer from that. Stimulus packages are short-term. Keynesian economics is popular because economists need jobs beyond just teaching, and politicians usually look to Keynesians to increase government intervention. Keynes believed that once the debt was incurred then during the next boom the government should then pay it back. This can happen but it usually is unpopular and requires spending cuts. Harper only wanted to do a little stimulus because what's happening in the U.S. is not working.

The reason for stimulus is to encourage people to spend with low interest rates and forcing tax dollars (or debt/future tax dollars) to go to infrastructure expenses to create make work jobs. If you have good finances it doesn't really matter, but if you have tons of debt I don't see how listening to economists and spending more from borrowing would help you.

At least you get the savings idea. The savings rate is historically low so at least some people like you get it.

Yes I am aware that the east is more left-wing but I think I'm as human as anyone in the east so I feel that what works for healthy individuals here works in other countries let alone other regions.

Ireland used to be a third world country but not anymore.
__________________

__________________
purpleoscar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 10:34 PM   #92
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,294
Local Time: 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post
Harper only wanted to do a little stimulus because what's happening in the U.S. is not working.
Harper actually cooked the books in this budget update. They are going to get what, $4 billion dollars from the sale of assets that they haven't yet identified? That's so outrageous that a 10th grade business student should laugh at them. Nevermind their oil profits projections that were completely out of line with that of financial institutions and in fact were off by something like $10-15/barrel. Just absurd, trying to actually project a surplus! Aren't you an accountant? This should make your blood boil.

Quote:
Yes I am aware that the east is more left-wing but I think I'm as human as anyone in the east so I feel that what works for healthy individuals here works in other countries let alone other regions.
Yeah well, the rest of the country disagrees with you. And we're not a third world country by any means (nor are many leftist European nations which go against just about every principle that you advocate).
__________________

__________________
anitram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 10:38 PM   #93
Blue Crack Addict
 
love_u2_adam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Heaven In Alberta, Where We Got All Hell For A Basement..
Posts: 22,307
Local Time: 10:36 AM
The whole country doesn't disagree with us. If we look at facts and the future there wont be anything left if they screw over alberta. We bring in so much revenue. You don't understand until you live here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post
I don't know why you're waving unless you like the government spending your money. At least in Alberta they try and let us keep more of what we make.
No PST
__________________
love_u2_adam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 11:30 PM   #94
Self-righteous bullshitter
 
BoMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Soviet Canuckistan — Socialist paradise
Posts: 16,666
Local Time: 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by love_u2_adam View Post
The whole country doesn't disagree with us. If we look at facts and the future there wont be anything left if they screw over alberta. We bring in so much revenue. You don't understand until you live here.



No PST
You want to work in the oil industry? That's good. The fact of the matter is that Alberta's days as the primary revenue stream of the country are slowly coming to an end.

And this is not only due to the drop in oil prices. For one, the new royalty scheme that Premier Stelmach is pushing through on Jan. 1 is encouraging investment and exploration out of the province and into northeastern B.C. and Saskatchewan. The royalty rollback announced two weeks ago—in the face of intense pressure from Big Oil, I might add— has done little to stem the tide, at least initially. The numbers that oil industry organizations recently released certainly support that. And the fact that the province is now projecting a $2 billion surplus instead of the $8.5 billion projected only a few months ago is also an indication that things are slowly getting worse.

In addition, the agriculture and forestry industries are ailing, some of it due to circumstances beyond their control, such as the pine beetle, but also due to the slowdown south of the border.

My point is, don't get too used to being thought of as the gravy train of the country. Even a province like Newfoundland is pulling in the big money now.
__________________

BoMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2008, 11:41 PM   #95
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,294
Local Time: 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoMac View Post
My point is, don't get too used to being thought of as the gravy train of the country.
All it will take is for the first affordable and efficient alternate energy vehicle to set Alberta on the road to bankruptcy.

The biggest irony is when an Albertan starts talking about taking their toys and going home while in the same breath bashing Quebec for behaving exactly the same way.
__________________
anitram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 12:18 AM   #96
Blue Crack Addict
 
love_u2_adam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Heaven In Alberta, Where We Got All Hell For A Basement..
Posts: 22,307
Local Time: 10:36 AM
Well only time can tell my fellow Canadians.
But the country did choose a conservative government... So i find it unfair to have another election and i find it very childish with what the opposition is doing.
__________________
love_u2_adam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 01:20 AM   #97
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 02:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
All it will take is for the first affordable and efficient alternate energy vehicle to set Alberta on the road to bankruptcy.

The biggest irony is when an Albertan starts talking about taking their toys and going home while in the same breath bashing Quebec for behaving exactly the same way.
So, you're not going to need chemicals and plastics in the future?
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 08:35 AM   #98
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,294
Local Time: 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
So, you're not going to need chemicals and plastics in the future?
That isn't the point. The Alberta provincial government has basically done nothing to improve infrastructure or many other things while they've been sitting on this surplus, instead choosing to cut taxes and return $ to people in (obviously) popular province-wide profit sharing programs. And this will just become a more pronounced problem that compounds itself as the oil profits dissipate in decades to come - which they obviously and clearly will since this is not a renewable resource.

And as for the "country" voting for Harper - yeah, 37% of it did. The other 63% said no thanks.
__________________
anitram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 08:36 AM   #99
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,294
Local Time: 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by love_u2_adam View Post
But the country did choose a conservative government... So i find it unfair to have another election
We're not having another election.
__________________
anitram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 08:46 AM   #100
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 02:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
That isn't the point. The Alberta provincial government has basically done nothing to improve infrastructure or many other things while they've been sitting on this surplus, instead choosing to cut taxes and return $ to people in (obviously) popular province-wide profit sharing programs. And this will just become a more pronounced problem that compounds itself as the oil profits dissipate in decades to come - which they obviously and clearly will since this is not a renewable resource.

And as for the "country" voting for Harper - yeah, 37% of it did. The other 63% said no thanks.
The profits may dissipate, but only after the price experiences some decent highs.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 09:18 AM   #101
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,294
Local Time: 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
The profits may dissipate, but only after the price experiences some decent highs.
You have to remember that the profits in Alberta are not like the profits in Saudi due to the huge cost of extracting the oil out of the oil sands. Since most of the oil is in this state, the cost/barrel must be VERY high in order to actually see major profits. As things stand right now, profits are low which is why Alberta's own budget surplus projection has been decreased by more than four-fold.
__________________
anitram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 10:15 AM   #102
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,732
Local Time: 11:36 AM
I read somewhere that the price per barrel has to be either $70 or $80 for Alaska to operate at a surplus. Fortunately for her, the price was high enough during the earlier part of the year that they've got a bit of a cushion, but things could be very different next year for the state.

I wonder what that number is for Alberta. Does anyone know?
__________________
VintagePunk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 12:41 PM   #103
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,294
Local Time: 11:36 AM
Goldman Sachs says it's $70. Which is why you are seeing a problem now.

Nevermind that extraction from oil sands contributes anywhere from 2.5-8 more pollution than regular oil extraction, which in itself is a terrible source of pollution. Alberta's oil companies should be heavily taxed to compensate for this, but heaven forbid anybody mentions it.
__________________
anitram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 01:00 PM   #104
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
purpleoscar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In right wing paranoia
Posts: 7,597
Local Time: 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
Harper actually cooked the books in this budget update. They are going to get what, $4 billion dollars from the sale of assets that they haven't yet identified? That's so outrageous that a 10th grade business student should laugh at them. Nevermind their oil profits projections that were completely out of line with that of financial institutions and in fact were off by something like $10-15/barrel. Just absurd, trying to actually project a surplus! Aren't you an accountant? This should make your blood boil.
When you know liberals are going to attack you for deficit spending what do you do? Lay back and do nothing? He wanted surpluses so they wouldn't have ammunition to attack him. His failed manuver in cutting pork barrel spending on political campaigns opened the door for the coalition but something eventually would cause that sometime or another. It's a minority government.

[/QUOTE]Yeah well, the rest of the country disagrees with you. And we're not a third world country by any means (nor are many leftist European nations which go against just about every principle that you advocate).[/QUOTE]

That's true. That's why they aren't as successful as they could be. Not everyone can work in the government and partake of those benefits. Maybe you're right. I should quit my private sector job and just join the government ASAP and start getting vested in a nice pension and flip the bird to the taxpayer. Then the people who work in the private sector with no union who have to pay for those benefits....Well too bad for them. They can go to hell.

It shows that if you are not in power or not an authority figure you can be ignored. When authority figures fail at the bailout like the U.S. then what will the followers do?

BTW there are conservatives in Canada and Europe and their presence keeps the socialists alligators from not biting more than they can chew. If my principles are so crappy why not have the government just take over the means of production?

Evenutually the Bloc will stab the liberals in the back. As soon as they overreach and ask for things liberals don't want it will be over. Ignatieff will try and look like the hero and save the day, and the Conservatives will be enticed to go left since it's mainly someone elses taxes they are spending so why fight? Politicians have got to eat too.
__________________
purpleoscar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2008, 01:01 PM   #105
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
purpleoscar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In right wing paranoia
Posts: 7,597
Local Time: 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
Goldman Sachs says it's $70. Which is why you are seeing a problem now.

Nevermind that extraction from oil sands contributes anywhere from 2.5-8 more pollution than regular oil extraction, which in itself is a terrible source of pollution. Alberta's oil companies should be heavily taxed to compensate for this, but heaven forbid anybody mentions it.
Good idea! Next time the east wants transfer payments from Alberta they can eat shit.
__________________

__________________
purpleoscar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com