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Old 12-02-2009, 10:30 PM   #211
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And to hasten its demise on the basis of speculative, politically-polluted science hardly seems prudent.

global warming is only one of many reasons to move away from oil.
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:54 PM   #212
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Cap and Trade schemes would only make matters worse as our industries would only "outsource" work to countries with cheaper energy and no burden of a carbon cap. We would no longer import crude for example but also refined gasoline as domestic refineries closed (taking jobs with them) in this country.

For economic reasons (no other source can compete with the energy density of fossil fuels) and because of their nature (the supply of renewable energies rarely corresponds with energy demand), carbon based energy is not going away anytime soon. And to hasten its demise on the basis of speculative, politically-polluted science hardly seems prudent.
Who mentioned "cap and trade"? Certainly not I. My approach to 21st century energy is not some neo-Luddite fantasy of "simpler times," but the reality that the U.S. recipe for success--cheap oil produced by impoverished nations that consume little themselves--is over. And that means switching to new sources of energy not dependent on a limited, non-renewable resource like oil, which already exist according to current technology, and just needs some old-fashioned political will and effort.

Again, if you want $200/bbl oil prompted by increased demand from developing countries and American energy security determined by the whims of unstable third-world energy producing nations, then, by all means, let's sit back and do absolutely nothing at all.
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Old 12-02-2009, 11:56 PM   #213
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global warming is only one of many reasons to move away from oil.
Isn't that the tragedy about all this? It's all about conforming to conservative dogma now, regardless of the fact that leftist concerns about climate change and right-wing concerns about energy independence have the same solution. But, like absolutely everything else about the U.S. today, it's still about bickering over superficial and trivial hot-button bullshit!
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:00 AM   #214
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Isn't that the tragedy about all this? It's all about conforming to conservative dogma now, regardless of the fact that leftist concerns about climate change and right-wing concerns about energy independence have the same solution. But, like absolutely everything else about the U.S. today, it's still about bickering over superficial and trivial hot-button bullshit!


drill, baby, drill! nuclear power!

i think such things get support not because they are good ideas but because they make liberals cringe.

like Sarah Palin.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:06 AM   #215
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drill, baby, drill! nuclear power!

i think such things get support not because they are good ideas but because they make liberals cringe.

like Sarah Palin.
As you know, I'm generally supportive of nuclear power as the backbone of a new energy strategy. Nonetheless, what I really hear is....

drill, baby, drill! nuclear power!

....probably because the oil lobby is much stronger than that of the nuclear lobby, presuming that one even exists. It certainly does underscore the fact that the GOP energy policy can really only be summed up as "more of the same."
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:50 AM   #216
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You know what makes conservatives cringe?
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"We can't drive our SUVs and, you know, eat as much as we want and keep our homes on, you know, 72 degrees at all times, whether we're living in the desert or we're living in the tundra, and then just expect every other country is going to say OK, you know, you guys go ahead keep on using 25 percent of the world's energy, even though you only account for 3 percent of the population, and we'll be fine. Don't worry about us. That's not leadership."
Cringe-worthy on many levels but now that he's president hypocritical as well given that Cadillac One gets far less mpg than any SUV, given that "Even before President Obama sets foot on Air Force One tomorrow (Nov 12th) to begin a 9-day trip to Asia, he has traveled to more countries in his first year in office than any of his predecessors... made 7 foreign trips and visited 16 countries, 3 of them twice. (CBS News)" And given that senior advisor David Axelrod said of President Obama and the Oval Office, "He's from Hawaii, O.K.? He likes it warm. You could grow orchids in there."
To his credit the president does not yet appear to be eating as much as he wants.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:59 AM   #217
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Cringe-worthy on many levels but now that he's president hypocritical as well given that Cadillac One gets far less mpg than any SUV, given that "Even before President Obama sets foot on Air Force One tomorrow (Nov 12th) to begin a 9-day trip to Asia, he has traveled to more countries in his first year in office than any of his predecessors... made 7 foreign trips and visited 16 countries, 3 of them twice." And given that, according to senior advisor David Axelrod, President Obama keeps the Oval Office, "...warm. You could grow orchids in there."
To his credit the president does not yet appear to be eating as much as he wants.
The president certainly has unique career circumstances that require a custom-built SUV outfitted like a fortress (i.e., the average SUV isn't made to withstand assassination attempts like the Cadillac One) and the kind of regular flights required by world leaders.

But this, alone, supports my point that conservation, while an admirable goal, cannot be the centrepiece of the 21st century energy plan. We have to switch to more sustainable energy types like a combination of nuclear, wind, and solar (who says you can't do all three?) and hydrogen fuel, which is more than powerful enough to power planes, trains and automobiles. We do not have to sacrifice strength in switching away from oil!
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Old 12-03-2009, 01:27 AM   #218
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The president certainly has unique career circumstances that require a custom-built SUV outfitted like a fortress (i.e., the average SUV isn't made to withstand assassination attempts like the Cadillac One) and the kind of regular flights required by world leaders.
Well. in truth I want the president to be in the safest vehicle available to him and fly to foreign countries as often as he deems necessary. But I want that same option for all Americans. Drive and travel in whatever you want and can afford and as often as you please. And I'd like that level of prosperity spread around the world. I'm glad more Chinese and Indians are driving cars. And I hope they now use some of their greater societal wealth to clean up true pollution like smog and dirty water. I wish more Africans could control the temperature of their environment as we and our president now do.
That's why the earlier rhetoric makes me cringe. That's unfounded guilt about yesterday, not hope for a better tomorrow. That's pulling some down to achieve equality rather than lifting others up.
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But this, alone, supports my point that conservation, while an admirable goal, cannot be the centrepiece of the 21st century energy plan. We have to switch to more sustainable energy types like a combination of nuclear, wind, and solar (who says you can't do all three?) and hydrogen fuel, which is more than powerful enough to power planes, trains and automobiles.
Hey, I'm all for it when it makes economic sense. I went back to my college in western Oklahoma for the first time in 25 years for the U2 concert and the place is now swarming with giant wind turbines where none existed when I was there. "Ok-lahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plain." Makes all the sense in the world... but everyone still drove cars and used natural gas to heat their water. Because that still makes sense as well.

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We do not have to sacrifice strength in switching away from oil!
I think you're smart enough to realize some people don't wish for us to maintain our strength. Quite the opposite in fact.
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Old 12-03-2009, 07:31 AM   #219
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I think you're smart enough to realize some people don't wish for us to maintain our strength. Quite the opposite in fact.
And the Rush paranoia surfaces again...
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Old 12-03-2009, 10:39 AM   #220
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You know what makes conservatives cringe?


Cringe-worthy on many levels


you find personal responsibility cringe-worthy?

i agree with every word he says. and as melon pointed out, the POTUS does live under quite different circumstances than the rest of us.

use the correct light bulbs, wash your clothes in cold water, make sure your car gets a minimum of 35 mph, and put on a damn sweater in the winter.
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:40 PM   #221
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Most media in the U.S. are not reporting anything about the email leaks.
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Old 12-03-2009, 06:44 PM   #222
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We've got 5 years to save world says Australia's chief scientist Professor Penny Sackett | Herald Sun

guess ziggy was right after all.
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Old 12-03-2009, 07:47 PM   #223
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From the link posted:

THE planet has just five years to avoid disastrous global warming, says the Federal Government's chief scientist.

Prof Penny Sackett yesterday urged all Australians to reduce their carbon footprint.

Australians - among the world's biggest producers of carbon dioxide - were "better placed than others to do something about it", she said.

"Australians can make an enormous contribution, so why would we not rise to this challenge and this opportunity," she told a business conference in Melbourne.

Prof Sackett refused to comment on the failure of the emissions trading scheme to be passed by the Senate this week.


No comments in reply on the site posted.



The earth is in good hands. The sun will shine. The birds will sing

I wish we could be a lot more concerned about treating each other as friends and stop adding to Al Gore's bank account.

Did I say that right?
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:03 PM   #224
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The earth is in good hands. The sun will shine. The birds will sing


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Old 12-03-2009, 11:20 PM   #225
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and stop adding to Al Gore's bank account.
Exactly how are you or I adding to his bank account?

Do you feel better adding to the bank accounts of those invested in oil?

This part of the statement makes no sense.
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