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Old 04-27-2010, 01:27 AM   #106
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There's a lot of English that don't celebrate 1066 - but what does that have to do with the current issue?Unless you are advocating the United States should allow invasion.
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:33 AM   #107
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How is finding a certain quote entertaining "advocating" anything?

I just thought is gives a little perspective, apparently some don't like perspective.
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:20 AM   #108
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the logic you've drawn from what irvine and i said doesn't go anywhere near that.


maybe if you'd post in ENGLISH instead of SPANISH.
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:25 AM   #109
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Not English, American, speak American pal...

Sheesh
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:09 AM   #110
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maybe if you'd post in ENGLISH instead of SPANISH.
the problem is i'm speaking english. the number of pricks who thought i was english was downright insulting. i'd have been less upset if people thought i was australian.
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:10 AM   #111
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I don't know the specifics on this to be honest.

I asked a friend of mine who is in law enforcement here in TX and I asked him about this subject once.

He said, no one wants to touch the subject because it's a butterfly effect. The cops don't care if they aren't doing harm because they know they've used them for labor on their ranch or in their yards at one point. Politicians don't want to do anything because they know local prices would start climbing if a mass exodus was made, or they know that some company they invest in uses illegal labor at some point. It's a dirty not so secret that here in TX a large percentage of farming uses undocumented labor, lots of smaller hotels, cooks and bus boys, a big portion of construction, and even road construction.

There's a local Republican politician that I know for a fact uses undocumented labor(or at least used to as of 5 years ago), it's one of the reasons he remains so quiet on the subject.

The dirty secret is that very few really want to do anything about it, they know there's very little pay off. But it's a great talking point, it solidifies your xenophobic base.

Reagan understood this...
This is a wonderful response BVS. I think it captures both the problem and trouble with finding a reasonable solution.

I personally think that closing the border in the most humane way possible is a first step. I think most of the US population wants to have a sense there is at least some control. In addition to that, I also favor seasonal work permits and allow this to be as hassle free as possible. I think more people would return home in the off-season if they didn’t have to worry about coming back. The only thing I would include is fingerprinting upon issuance of this permit and a file opened in a database. Being able to link a crime to a fingerprint is a critical step in the right direction for reasonable law enforcement.

Additionally, I would at least legalize marijuana, if not all drugs. It’s obvious at this point that things are worse than the prohibition era. Mexico is a big supplier of pot and a big portion of the violence we’re seeing on the border is because of this. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not advocating the use of marijuana, but someone’s choice to use it. Regarding “harder” drugs – there simply has to be a better way of dealing with this issue. In my opinion, people using hard drugs are already punishing themselves. Perhaps take the billions we spend on enforcing drug laws and jailing offenders and spend it on educating and treatment. We have to convince people there’s a difference between legality and endorsement. In the end, this is the responsibility of parents and of course, each individual adult.
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:20 AM   #112
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This is a wonderful response BVS. I think it captures both the problem and trouble with finding a reasonable solution.

I personally think that closing the border in the most humane way possible is a first step. I think most of the US population wants to have a sense there is at least some control. In addition to that, I also favor seasonal work permits and allow this to be as hassle free as possible. I think more people would return home in the off-season if they didn’t have to worry about coming back. The only thing I would include is fingerprinting upon issuance of this permit and a file opened in a database. Being able to link a crime to a fingerprint is a critical step in the right direction for reasonable law enforcement.

Additionally, I would at least legalize marijuana, if not all drugs. It’s obvious at this point that things are worse than the prohibition era. Mexico is a big supplier of pot and a big portion of the violence we’re seeing on the border is because of this. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not advocating the use of marijuana, but someone’s choice to use it. Regarding “harder” drugs – there simply has to be a better way of dealing with this issue. In my opinion, people using hard drugs are already punishing themselves. Perhaps take the billions we spend on enforcing drug laws and jailing offenders and spend it on educating and treatment. We have to convince people there’s a difference between legality and endorsement. In the end, this is the responsibility of parents and of course, each individual adult.
A lot of this makes sense. I'm still uneasy about "closing the border", I assume you mean to build a big wall? That doesn't sit well with me, but everything else makes sense.
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Old 04-27-2010, 10:46 AM   #113
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A lot of this makes sense. I'm still uneasy about "closing the border", I assume you mean to build a big wall? That doesn't sit well with me, but everything else makes sense.
I'm more in favor of a technology/electronic wall with rapid response teams of Border Patrol (alarm goes off, team responds at exact location).

Again, with the permit program and changes in drug laws - these should reduce the illegal crossing problem. If the responsible Mexicans came through the normal "gates" with their seasonal ID, then the ones coming across other areas are more than likely trouble makers of some sort.
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:04 AM   #114
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Ok, that I can actually agree with...
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:46 PM   #115
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Which, again, is still completely different than dealing with illegal immigrants (and legal immigrants) that are here already, which is all this bill does.
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:02 PM   #116
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well fuck me dead, we've got a solution almost all who are actively debating thread can agree on.

i'll go look for some locusts and horsemen.
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Old 04-28-2010, 09:31 AM   #117
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OTTUMWA, Iowa (AP)— President Barack Obama on Tuesday warned of harassment against Hispanics under Arizona's tough new immigration law, saying such "poorly conceived" measures can be halted if the federal government fixes the nation's broken immigration system for good.

Obama pledged to bring his own party along, pleading with Republicans to join in as the only realistic hope to solve a politically volatile problem.

On a day dominated by his economic message, Obama offered a fresh, stern criticism of a new Arizona law that allows police to question anyone about their immigration status if they have reason to suspect they are in the country illegally. He said it targets people who look like they might be illegal immigrants.

"Now suddenly if you don't have your papers, and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you're going to get harassed – that's something that could potentially happen," Obama said of the Arizona measure. "That's not the right way to go."

Obama's comments came on the same day that Attorney General Eric Holder and Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano were critical of Arizona's new law, and Holder said the federal government may challenge it. The president sought to step up Washington's will to get an immigration deal done.

"I will bring the majority of Democrats to the table in getting this done," Obama said in response to a question at a town hall in south-central Iowa. "But I've got to have some help from the other side."

Obama said he hoped to get a deal done "sometime soon" – a politically vague timetable in an election year with a shrinking window for legislative action.
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:02 AM   #118
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some dip shit wants to boycott arizona iced teas because of this new law.

arizona iced tea company is based out of new york.
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:18 AM   #119
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:19 AM   #120
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OTTUMWA, Iowa (AP)— President Barack Obama on Tuesday warned of harassment against Hispanics under Arizona's tough new immigration law, saying such "poorly conceived" measures can be halted if the federal government fixes the nation's broken immigration system for good.

"Now suddenly if you don't have your papers, and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you're going to get harassed – that's something that could potentially happen," Obama said of the Arizona measure. "That's not the right way to go."
I saw this in the paper this morning. It reminded me of South Africa during apartheid. And I remember that plenty of American conservatives were just fine with that back then.
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