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Old 12-14-2008, 05:32 PM   #16
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Its stupid and I think it is a waste of money, but the market has spoken. These people bring in masses of cash and its only fair they get a decent slice.

If you have a problem, point the finger at society in general, which celebrates people that can kick a ball around rather than scientists and artists.
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Old 12-14-2008, 05:34 PM   #17
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Well hell if I was making tens of millions I'd be doing it just for the money! And I didn't say "all, just "they", as ing, the ones that are total idiots that treat everyone else like dirt. Yes, I really believe ALL of THEM are doing it for the money. How many would actually play if it COST them money....I don't know much about pro sports, you know way more. How many do you think would work out 8 hours a day, 6 days a week all year long if it cost them $100,000?
Lies, this is a silly post. You're an intelligent person so this is a surprisingly weak argument. I don't think you measure one's dedication or love for something by asking if they'd pay to do it. The economic backgrounds of professional athletes would likely suggest that they are not in a position to even consider such a scenario. I know that I couldn't pay that sort of $$$ to do anything, especially if it took up 48 hours per week.

I wish I knew who "they" were. I've televised every sport under the sun, including collegiate gymnastics, field hockey, soccer, volleyball, track/field, swimming/diving, equestrian, etc...non-revenue sports.....and, you'd better believe that every sport under the sun has participants that are idiots that treat everyone like dirt.
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Old 12-14-2008, 06:10 PM   #18
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reality is we're all idiots and hypocrits. reality is that the majority of professional athletes, just like the majority of actors, musicians, etc.... just like the majority of people in general are in actuality good people who are just going about their lives.

but we as a society are sick in the head and focus in only on the negatives... we have no problem bitching and moaning about how bad athletes and celebrities behave as we watch TMZ while we browse gossip sites on our blackberrys.

we have no problem bitching and moaning about how much money athletes make while we wear our 100 dollar jersey, sitting in front of the thousand dollar HD watching the games.

athletes and celebrities make obscene amounts of money because we, you and i, pay them obscene amounts of money to watch them do their thing. and the worst of those groups get splashed all over the news because we, you and i, like seeing famous people dragged down to our level and find the story about the guy who donated money to his high school to be, frankly, boring.
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Old 12-14-2008, 06:17 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
Its stupid and I think it is a waste of money, but the market has spoken. These people bring in masses of cash and its only fair they get a decent slice.

If you have a problem, point the finger at society in general, which celebrates people that can kick a ball around rather than scientists and artists.
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athletes and celebrities make obscene amounts of money because we, you and i, pay them obscene amounts of money to watch them do their thing. and the worst of those groups get splashed all over the news because we, you and i, like seeing famous people dragged down to our level and find the story about the guy who donated money to his high school to be, frankly, boring.
yep.
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Old 12-14-2008, 06:31 PM   #20
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Define artists. Because if artists includes musicians, writers or even actors, then we celebrate artists, too.
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Old 12-14-2008, 06:48 PM   #21
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We value what engages us, what pleases us, our own professions. Everyone else is overpaid.
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Old 12-14-2008, 07:13 PM   #22
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Lies, this is a silly post. You're an intelligent person so this is a surprisingly weak argument. I don't think you measure one's dedication or love for something by asking if they'd pay to do it.
How is that weak? You don't even want to know how much I have and will spend on my dog sports, lord I don't even want to know! All I'm saying is if you do something b/c you LOVE it than yes, you would do it even if it costs you money. Otherwise you mean to say humans are only motivated by making money? I don't know about everyone else but I do tons of things I love that cost me money (or at least don't make me any money). Dogs, photography, travel, volunteering...I'm sure everyone has their own list. No, I do not expect people to work for free but maybe therein lies the problem. If it's just seen as "work" and not something you do because it's self-rewarding.

And what about all the kids doing sports in high school or younger? Do they love it less because they can't cash in on it?

Don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with pro sports because most of the country seems to eat it up and it makes no difference to me. I think a lot of it is a total joke but people probably say the same about U2 concerts and Schutzhund trials. I'm not into it myself but I live with someone who is and I'm the first to admit I spend a lot more on my dogs than he spends being a fan of pro sports!

Anyway, I think Carlos made a good point about how the fans are treated. I've wondered about that myself. Maybe that's just the norm, I dunno. Again I don't attend pro sports but the the things I DO do that I love it seems the entertainers/athletes/idols/people at the top are more appreciative and approachable. Heck even Bono seemed like a pretty approachable guy. When I'm at a dog show or trial it's not difficult to approach the top breeder, handler, or even the top dog and even get some help from them. When we were at the north american Sieger show in October (top dogs from around the world) the top handler from Germany did a free seminar for the little kids.
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Old 12-14-2008, 07:17 PM   #23
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How is that weak? You don't even want to know how much I have and will spend on my dog sports, lord I don't even want to know! All I'm saying is if you do something b/c you LOVE it than yes, you would do it even if it costs you money. Otherwise you mean to say humans are only motivated by making money? I don't know about everyone else but I do tons of things I love that cost me money (or at least don't make me any money). Dogs, photography, travel, volunteering...I'm sure everyone has their own list. No, I do not expect people to work for free but maybe therein lies the problem. If it's just seen as "work" and not something you do because it's self-rewarding.

And what about all the kids doing sports in high school or younger? Do they love it less because they can't cash in on it?

Don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with pro sports because most of the country seems to eat it up and it makes no difference to me. I think a lot of it is a total joke but people probably say the same about U2 concerts and Schutzhund trials. I'm not into it myself but I live with someone who is and I'm the first to admit I spend a lot more on my dogs than he spends being a fan of pro sports!
Since there is no way to really climb inside the head of a pro athlete and see if they play for $$$ or if they play because of their passion yet sure don't mind making the $$$, we will simply disagree on this one. I appreciate your point of view, though.

As for the dogs, Lies, anyone that uses this site has some inkling of how much time, effort and $$$ you are pouring into it.
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Old 12-14-2008, 07:37 PM   #24
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Its all relative-supply and demand
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Old 12-14-2008, 07:50 PM   #25
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I'm not defending sportsplayers. I've certainly seen almost a wall of unapproachability for some teams even in minor leagues, certainly a decrease in approachability over the last 10 , 15 years or so.

But I've also seen sports dealers approach young kids and offer them a couple of dollars to get a player's autograph which the dealer will then sell. It's a business on both ends.
It's cynical on both ends.

Even so, there are still players who are approachable. I'm used to seeing baseball and hockey players close up. We have two minor league teams in town. One of them used to be the Phillies Triple A affiliate, the other is the Penguins affiliate. Many of the Phillies players were still pretty approachable even when they made the majors. I haven't seen the Penguins players who stayed with the big club after they made it so
I can't speak for them. I did notice a change when we got the Yankees affiliate though.
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:02 PM   #26
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I'm not defending sportsplayers. I've certainly seen almost a wall of unapproachability for some teams even in minor leagues, certainly a decrease in approachability over the last 10 , 15 years or so.

But I've also seen sports dealers approach young kids and offer them a couple of dollars to get a player's autograph which the dealer will then sell. It's a business on both ends.
It's cynical on both ends.

Even so, there are still players who are approachable. I'm used to seeing baseball and hockey players close up. We have two minor league teams in town. One of them used to be the Phillies Triple A affiliate, the other is the Penguins affiliate. Many of the Phillies players were still pretty approachable even when they made the majors. I haven't seen the Penguins players who stayed with the big club after they made it so
I can't speak for them. I did notice a change when we got the Yankees affiliate though.
Scranton!
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:36 PM   #27
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Scranton. Hey, but don't forget Wilkes-Barre. WB's somewhere in the name of both teams!!!! And we've got the hockey team. As you can see there is a (not so) friendly rivalry.

But I have season tickets for both teams (three rows behind home plate and four rows off the ice in the attack zone). Hence, the reason I never can afford to go on vacation.
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:39 PM   #28
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Scranton. Hey, but don't forget Wilkes-Barre. WB's somewhere in the name of both teams!!!! And we've got the hockey team.
My apologies.

A close friend of mine played College Basketball at Scranton, so there's that, too. She played for love of the game.
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:45 PM   #29
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Apology accepted. We're hardscrabble, after all. Scranton's got a good basketball program.
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:55 PM   #30
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I don't like the idea that there is something to be done about sportsmen (a fair generalisation about the gender of worshipped players) making huge amounts of money; it should be the responsibility of the leagues, I don't have a problem with letting the market decide when it comes to sports (I do have a problem with public funds being drawn off to subsidise big events, and the cultish attitude that Australians have towards sportsmen).

The idea of having the state step in with salary caps is repellent, it would stop players getting a fair slice of the billions that they generate for clubs.
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