Another Malaysian Airline Disaster? - Page 5 - U2 Feedback

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Old 07-18-2014, 09:07 AM   #61
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Also, an Australian woman lost a brother on MH370 and now lost her stepdaughter on MH17.

Unbelievable. Incomprehensible.


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Damn..
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 07-18-2014, 09:14 AM   #62
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and Ukranien jets were escorting that flight earlier for a while and didnt go near Russian border
Why would there be a need for fighter jets to escort the plane if the Ukrainians knew that the BUK system at the rebels' disposal wasn't operational, though? That the fighter jets were escorting the plane contradicts the events the air traffic controller had witnessed, and interestingly his Twitter account has been closed/deleted since his tweets.
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Old 07-18-2014, 09:22 AM   #63
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every country does that sometimes, even for practice for pilots to identify planes and so on, might just been like that, dont know

seems they got confirmation now that it was shot down with missiles
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Old 07-18-2014, 09:32 AM   #64
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In reference to that video you posted on the last page, the title says that fighters are driving the BUK system from across the Russian border but it's in the town of Krasnoarmeysk, which is far from the border and has been under Ukrainian control for a while now. There's a lot of deliberate misinformation from the Ukrainian side, such as the internet allows.
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Old 07-18-2014, 09:36 AM   #65
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I reckon there's a lot of misinformation from both sides, and we really have no way to figure out what is true and what is not...
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 07-18-2014, 09:41 AM   #66
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Agreed. That's the biggest problem, pretty much the only thing I can trust is eyewitness videos of events happening, I try to avoid both sides of mainstream media (both Western and Russian). The problem with that 'border' video is that it could be filmed anywhere and passed off as such, there's nothing to prove that it's at an actual border, and I don't think they'd have advertisement billboards so close to a border either.
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:00 AM   #67
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Why would either the Russian or Ukrainian military do this? It is such a clearly awful idea with absolutely no benefits that could flow from it.

It makes a lot more sense that it was a rebel group, who got the weapon somehow (stole from the Russians, was given it by the Russians, whatever). Rebel groups are not trained, professional and disciplined armies and just relying on your common sense should tell you that this is the most likely cause. A group of rebels who thought they were aiming at something else (Ukrainian cargo flights, etc), don't have military radar, not plugged into air traffic, etc.

The important question is, if these groups have these sorts of weapons and clearly lack the brains required to hold off on operating them, what then? We all know that the Israelis blew up the same Syrian weaponry very recently precisely because they didn't want aircraft in their air space to be sitting ducks. Can't say I blame them.
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:05 AM   #68
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There are quite a lot of reasons.... with a BUK system you cannot see what kind of plane you are shooting at, it's just a blimp on the radar. Ukrainian troups could've shot at what they thought was Putin's plane, which was in the same airspace a little earlier. The Russians could've done it to blame Ukraine somehow so they can justify starting a war, like what happened with Finland in the 1930s... I'm not saying any of these possibilities is realistic, but they are possible. Of course the rebel groups is the most likely option, I'm just not excluding the other options right now since I just don't know.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:08 AM   #69
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Do you really believe that either of those governments/militaries are so stupid as to try to shoot down Putin or otherwise start a war? I just think that it makes absolutely no sense at all.
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:13 AM   #70
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But would rebels have access to weaponry that can knock a plane out of the air at 32,000 feet? I understand that they have suppliers giving them weaponry, but that kind of weaponry?
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:17 AM   #71
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Notice that Putin didn't explicitly say Ukraine shot it down. Putin didn't even deny that rebels were behind the shooting. Instead, Putin blamed Kiev for "the tensions" in the area. The fact that even Vlad has not denied that pro-Russians are involved is pretty much a smoking gun in my book.
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:17 AM   #72
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I sincerely doubt that starting a full on war is something Russia really want to do, it would be a suicide mission for them, even if they could feel that they could justify it. They know it wouldn't end well for them, they don't want to risk it and above all I think their preference is for the UA government and the rebels to establish an indefinite ceasefire, so contrary to what many are lead to believe I don't think Russia is particularly eager to start something so big.

Of course, the UA government could have avoided this conflict if they had granted the Donetsk/Lugansk regions some degree of autonomy several months ago. With that said, UA's concerns about the south east go further than just getting rid of the rebels, as a very large portion of the population are opposed to the current government, and even more so with having their cities mercilessly shelled by the army.
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:24 AM   #73
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Do you really believe that either of those governments/militaries are so stupid as to try to shoot down Putin or otherwise start a war? I just think that it makes absolutely no sense at all.
The only way I can see this being a possibility is if the UA government wanted to stage something elaborately senseless, knowing they will have the full backing of the West, and try to make it appear that Russia was the culprit. But that's not even worth being discussed.

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But would rebels have access to weaponry that can knock a plane out of the air at 32,000 feet? I understand that they have suppliers giving them weaponry, but that kind of weaponry?
I doubt it. Their best luck is to try and steal it from the Ukrainian army, the Ukrainians have already stated earlier that if they leave anything behind that it's going to be damaged and unusable.

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Notice that Putin didn't explicitly say Ukraine shot it down. Putin didn't even deny that rebels were behind the shooting. Instead, Putin blamed Kiev for "the tensions" in the area. The fact that even Vlad has not denied that pro-Russians are involved is pretty much a smoking gun in my book.
Even me? I don't think I've ever stated that I'm a supporter of the Russians and/or the rebels, if that's what you're getting at.
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:44 AM   #74
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nah, just put that here as watched that speech again

and By Vlad I ment Putin lol
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:49 AM   #75
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Oh shit ...
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