An FYM Poll - Page 9 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
View Poll Results: Did Jesus physically ascend to heaven?
Yes he did 20 31.75%
No he didn't, it is a pointless fabrication 21 33.33%
No, it is figurative 22 34.92%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-24-2008, 05:56 PM   #121
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
A_W, what exactly was this poll intended to measure? Just curious.
I have a bet going about what proportion of people actually believe in the claims of their religion, most people I know are secular - they may be Catholics or Jews and may well believe in God but they don't believe in miracles.

My contention is that if you scratch the surface people are more rational than they might otherwise seem (for instance if America was 90% Christian but only 30% of people believe in a physical ascension then it gives a vague idea about what sort of faith they subscribe to).

Obviously it could have been worded differently, I am not sure that would be a good thing though.
__________________

__________________
A_Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2008, 06:00 PM   #122
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 11:10 PM
Wanderer, suppose you're mistaken-who will you look for in the next life?

me
comegen
Christ
Confucius

??

<>
__________________

__________________
diamond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2008, 06:01 PM   #123
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by toscano View Post
We can individually be 100% convinced we are right though. Essentially making the certainty factor a personal one.
That is bad thinking, what we believe has nothing to do with the truth of these types of claims. Since we can't be absolutely certain we can't ever be 100%. Having a high confidence level that a claim is untrue is not certainty.

I can't prove a negative, but the burden of proof isn't on me, it rests on the people making the claims.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2008, 06:02 PM   #124
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond View Post
Wanderer, suppose you're mistaken-who will you look for in the next life?

me
comegen
Christ
Confucius

??

<>
That depends on which religion is true, they aren't exactly mutually compatible, though if there was an afterlife and no God I would be more right than most.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2008, 06:12 PM   #125
Refugee
 
toscano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,032
Local Time: 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
That is bad thinking, what we believe has nothing to do with the truth of these types of claims. Since we can't be absolutely certain we can't ever be 100%. Having a high confidence level that a claim is untrue is not certainty.
Well, I am 100% certain that the sun will rise in the East tomorrow, obviously barring any major astronomical anomalies which may happen overnight.

Maybe it's the "common sense certainty" or something, but that's us Engineers for you, we're always rounding !
__________________
toscano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2008, 06:16 PM   #126
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by toscano View Post
Well, I am 100% certain that the sun will rise in the East tomorrow, obviously barring any major astronomical anomalies which may happen overnight.

Maybe it's the "common sense certainty" or something, but that's us Engineers for you, we're always rounding !
I'm not, I can think of several reasons why.
- The Earth experiences a magnetic reversal which switches the north and south magnetic pole making the sun rise in the West tomorrow, it happens with periodicity and we are about due for one now.
- Astronomical anomalies
- Aliens



Always maintain multiple working hypothesis
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2008, 06:16 PM   #127
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 07:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
I have a bet going about what proportion of people actually believe in the claims of their religion, most people I know are secular - they may be Catholics or Jews and may well believe in God but they don't believe in miracles.
OK, though I might question your use of the phrase "the claims of their religion." That could be taken to suggest that Christianity 'proper,' Judaism 'proper,' Vaishnaiva Hinduism 'proper' etc., entails taking every word of every text generally considered 'scripture' by said religion literally--which is not in fact how most religions or denominations have ever worked. Some religions or denominations have no formal doctrinal code at all. I'm not arguing the point that adherents of various religions do indeed often disbelieve in specific doctrines which really are formally proclaimed by the designated institutional leaders of their denominations, merely observing that this notion of "the claims of their religion" is prone to being conceived of as something more set-in-stone than it actually is.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2008, 06:19 PM   #128
Refugee
 
toscano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,032
Local Time: 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
I'm not, I can think of several reasons why.
- The Earth experiences a magnetic reversal which switches the north and south magnetic pole making the sun rise in the West tomorrow, it happens with periodicity and we are about due for one now.
- Astronomical anomalies
- Aliens



Always maintain multiple working hypothesis
Rounding helps me sleep better.........
__________________
toscano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2008, 06:21 PM   #129
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
OK, though I might question your use of the phrase "the claims of their religion." That could be taken to suggest that Christianity 'proper,' Judaism 'proper,' Vaishnaiva Hinduism 'proper' etc., entails taking every word of every text generally considered 'scripture' by said religion literally--which is not in fact how most religions or denominations have ever worked. Some religions or denominations have no formal doctrinal code at all. I'm not arguing the point that adherents of various religions do indeed often disbelieve in specific doctrines which really are formally proclaimed by the designated institutional leaders of their denominations, merely observing that this notion of "the claims of their religion" is prone to being conceived of as something more set-in-stone than it actually is.
Very fair call.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2008, 06:22 PM   #130
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by toscano View Post
Rounding helps me sleep better.........
Knowing, but then judging the likelihood is better.
__________________
A_Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2008, 06:23 PM   #131
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 11:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Wanderer View Post
That depends on which religion is true, they aren't exactly mutually compatible, though if there was an afterlife and no God I would be more right than most.
Actually they're all linked..and based on your desire to progress will determine where you feel the most comfortable.


Eventually all who desire to do good will accept Christ and find that He was the author of all things good.

Todd Bentley -God is Releasing a Sundar Singh Annointing | http://deceptionbytes.com

<>
__________________
diamond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2008, 06:26 PM   #132
Refugee
 
toscano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,032
Local Time: 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond View Post


Eventually all who desire to do good will accept Christ and find that He was the author of all things good.
Bollocks.
__________________
toscano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2008, 06:28 PM   #133
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 11:10 PM
Another Protestant that taught truths that were similar to Joseph Smith was this guy:

Emanuel Swedenborg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He saw that departed souls were taught Christ's true gospel, those that desired it and never had a chance in the flesh.

He taught that the Trinity notion was man made and that Faith alone can't save us.

All this was based on the visitation of Angels and visions he had over 3 decades.

Quote:
Bollocks.


He was presecuted by unbelievers and the main stream church in his day as well.

<>
__________________
diamond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2008, 06:39 PM   #134
Refugee
 
toscano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,032
Local Time: 11:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond View Post

He was presecuted as well.

<>
you should spend more time here

Welcome to Reading Is Fundamental

calling your blanket statement about christ/people who do good "bollocks" is hardly the same as presecuting (sic) you

Or do you react that way every time someone disagrees with something you say ?
__________________
toscano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2008, 06:48 PM   #135
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Vincent Vega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Berlin
Posts: 6,615
Local Time: 07:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by toscano View Post
you should spend more time here

Welcome to Reading Is Fundamental

calling your blanket statement about christ/people who do good "bollocks" is hardly the same as presecuting (sic) you

Or do you react that way every time someone disagrees with something you say ?
That's like the reaction I alluded to earlier. You say you don't believe in God, and they react as if heaven just exploded.
__________________

__________________
Vincent Vega is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com