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Old 06-02-2009, 03:50 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by toscano View Post
A pro-capital-punishment Christian "pro-lifer" who will argue against the death penalty for another "pro-lifer" who committed pre-meditated cold-blooded murder in a church.
Who is this person?
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Old 06-02-2009, 03:58 PM   #77
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Let me get this straight the Conservative/Republican view is that unborn children and stem cells are to be treated as precious commodities.

The same Conservative/Republican view sent thousands of our Troops to be killed and maimed in the "War On Terror" in Iraq, a country that in no way shape or form had anything to do with the 9/11 attacks while the Perpetraitor of said attacks is (or could be) alive.

Now Folks that's what I would call irony.......
Sorry, but there's quite a bit of difference between an adult man or woman voluntarily deciding to go fight knowing full well that they are putting their own life at risk and a helpless, unborn child who gets no say in whether or not they get to survive, all because his or her mother just decided she didn't want to have a baby anymore.

I think you're confused on what the conservative stance is, but nice try.
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Old 06-02-2009, 04:03 PM   #78
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How can something that is unborn have an opinion at all???

You make it seem like every abortion is some women who's too lazy to raise a child.
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Old 06-02-2009, 04:07 PM   #79
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Sorry, but there's quite a bit of difference between an adult man or woman voluntarily deciding to go fight knowing full well that they are putting their own life at risk and a helpless, unborn child who gets no say in whether or not they get to survive, all because his or her mother just decided she didn't want to have a baby anymore.

I think you're confused on what the conservative stance is, but nice try.
it sounds like you are advocating that abortion is murder.
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Old 06-02-2009, 04:28 PM   #80
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Sorry, but there's quite a bit of difference between an adult man or woman voluntarily deciding to go fight knowing full well that they are putting their own life at risk and a helpless, unborn child who gets no say in whether or not they get to survive, all because his or her mother just decided she didn't want to have a baby anymore.

I think you're confused on what the conservative stance is, but nice try.
oh, i see, since they signed up for the Military it was okay to send them to Iraq, without the body armour and the beefed up hum vees, what was the term "we were going to win this war on the cheap", that you reconcile in your ditto headed brain that fighting a needless war against sworn enemies of the USA in a country that had nothing to do with the attacks makes it "All good".

my bad
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Old 06-02-2009, 04:39 PM   #81
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Who is this person?
Joe Evangelical Christian
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Old 06-02-2009, 04:42 PM   #82
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nor do we want to talk about *why* late term abortions are performed -- baby killin' is just easier to say. all that "moral clarity" stuff.

Good point.

Slain abortion doctor: ‘They need me’ - Crime & courts- msnbc.com

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One woman who turned to him was Miriam Kleiman, of northern Virginia. Nine years ago, a routine sonogram revealed her 29-week-old fetus had major brain abnormalities that prevented the baby's heart and lungs from functioning properly.

Doctors told her the baby would die in utero or soon after birth. Kleiman's doctors told her a third trimester abortion was not possible.

Kleiman says she could not bear a two-month death watch. "There was a baby dying inside of me, and it wasn't if, but when," she says.

After desperate pleas, she says, a doctor scribbled Tiller's name on a scrap of paper. She and her husband flew to Wichita and drove through a gauntlet of protesters to the fortress-like clinic.

She remembers Tiller and his staff as kind and compassionate. She had the abortion and brought home her baby to be buried.
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Old 06-02-2009, 04:48 PM   #83
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i really dont have a stance on abortion other than it's not the government's choice to make. other than that i honestly dont give a shit. that may sound cold or whatever, but it never seemed to be a big issue to me.

i tend to think you cant truly have a STONG or fanatical stance on a topic like this unless you've had an experience with it, cause who knows how you will react when the shit hits the fan.
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Old 06-02-2009, 04:59 PM   #84
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all because his or her mother just decided she didn't want to have a baby anymore.

Yes, that's the only reason women have abortions...
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:04 PM   #85
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Yes, that's the only reason women have abortions...
not the only, put primary reason when tallying the numbers.

<>
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:10 PM   #86
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i really dont have a stance on abortion other than it's not the government's choice to make. other than that i honestly dont give a shit. that may sound cold or whatever, but it never seemed to be a big issue to me.

i tend to think you cant truly have a STONG or fanatical stance on a topic like this unless you've had an experience with it, cause who knows how you will react when the shit hits the fan.
I'm with you on the first part.

The second part....I don't know....maybe you didn't mean it this way but I see some STRONG fanatical stances on abortion coming from people who have never even known anyone facing such a decision, let alone having first hand experience (I have several members of my extended family in mind, not people here because I don't know their circumstance or experience).
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:18 PM   #87
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not the only, put primary reason when tallying the numbers.

<>
And this is exactly why I think we would get a lot further if both sides would work together on trying to reduce the number of, and the reasons for, rather than these deadset absolute stances.
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:41 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
Sorry, but there's quite a bit of difference between an adult man or woman voluntarily deciding to go fight knowing full well that they are putting their own life at risk and a helpless, unborn child who gets no say in whether or not they get to survive, all because his or her mother just decided she didn't want to have a baby anymore.


so, if you're willing to see gray here, can you see the gray between a fetus at 8 weeks and a breathing, crying child?

or is it more about judgment.
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:43 PM   #89
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not the only, put primary reason when tallying the numbers.

<>


maybe they should ask your permission?
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Old 06-02-2009, 06:13 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by bigjohn2441 View Post
i really dont have a stance on abortion other than it's not the government's choice to make. other than that i honestly dont give a shit. that may sound cold or whatever, but it never seemed to be a big issue to me.

i tend to think you cant truly have a STONG or fanatical stance on a topic like this unless you've had an experience with it, cause who knows how you will react when the shit hits the fan.
On your second point -- I think it's actually easier to have a fanatical stance on this type of thing when you haven't had any direct experience with it (or know anyone with direct experience), because it's easier to see things in black and white when you haven't actually had to deal with them. That's not to say I think all people without direct experience with abortion or unwanted or problem pregnancies can't see the issue as black and white, because many do see the situations aren't always so clear.

I do think the pro-life side tends to have more extremists, because the basic premise of that side's stance is "abortion should be illegal" (some do propose to allow it in certain, specific cases) whereas the basic premise of the pro-choice stance is "the pregnant individual should make the decision" (often with certain restrictions). The basic pro-life stance is more rigid, which I feel is more apt to cultivate and encourage those with extremist tendencies.

As for your first point, I tend to agree. However, because I'm female, pregnancy related issues, including abortion, have always been a possibility for me, so my feelings on the issue are stronger. I'm not sure I'd ever get an abortion myself, but I do know I don't want to option removed or made excessively restricted. I never want to feel forced into having a child, and I'm not willing to force anyone else into it either. I feel people have to be allowed to make their own choices.
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