2008 U.S. Presidential Election: Vice-Presidential Debate - Page 27 - U2 Feedback

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Old 10-05-2008, 07:52 PM   #391
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Why are Democrats suddenly completely opposed to religi--

Oh wait, it was a STING post, this is a pointless response.
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:00 PM   #392
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And let's not forget how Edge, Larry, and Adam - especially Edge, if I remember, but all of them to one extent or another - were downright uncomfortable when Bono met with and had photo-ops with Bush. I'm not positive, but I think Edge may even have gone on record saying as much.

And let's also not forget, when making sweeping generalizations about what U2 believes politically based on their religion, that one of its members, Adam, is a NON-BELIEVER!

And let's still yet also not forget that that all four have seemed to always embrace science 100%, standing in contrast to a good chunk of hardcore fundamentalist anti-science Christians.

Also, the four of them didn't grow up in America, so they grew up with a different political paradigm altogether in their formative years, so their beliefs aren't likely to fall neatly into "Democrat" or "Republican" the way many of our belief sets do.
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:06 PM   #393
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This thread has taken an absurd turn.
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:10 PM   #394
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This thread has taken an absurd turn.
Sting posted something absurd. The rest of us are just telling him why he's wrong.
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:11 PM   #395
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This thread has taken an absurd turn.
WE have common ground. Mark it on your calendar.
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:23 PM   #396
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You know, I fundamentally disagree with the idea of ignore lists but, over my nigh on 4 years posting here, STING2/Strongbow is, time and time again, the single poster that comes closest to christening mine.


he was my first. and i predict only.
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:27 PM   #397
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WE have common ground. Mark it on your calendar.
It must be a... conspiracy!



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Old 10-05-2008, 08:29 PM   #398
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he was my first. and i predict only.
You always remember your first....
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:47 PM   #399
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I will confess, he was at one time on my list. Nobody else has made it.
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:48 PM   #400
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It must be a... conspiracy!




I am eagerly awaiting the end of this election....maybe there will be more
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:58 PM   #401
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Can we get back to election-related topics, or do I need to lock this one?

And yes, please, if it's a choice between using your ignore lists and collectively slamming another poster (in the third person no less), then use the fricking ignore list.
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Old 10-05-2008, 08:59 PM   #402
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Well being that the last few posts were in response to my perspective from rural, MN, I will assure you that my town of 2000 people along the north shore of lake superior to be a pretty rural area.
Wasn't referring to you, I was reading Irvine's post largely in context of an article he posted on more or less this same topic ("small town values" rhetoric) a few weeks back. Based on 2004 exit polls, rural voters comprised 16% of the electorate and 59% of them voted for Bush, so they were roughly 9.4% of the Republican vote in that election--compare that to suburban voters, 23.4% of the '04 Republican vote, yet you don't hear Republicans talking about or rhetorically positioning themselves as the party of "suburban values," any more than Democrats position themselves as the party of "urban values" (17% of the Democratic vote in '04). So there's more going on here than just a targeted pitch to voters who really do live in "rural America"; that rhetoric evokes something that's in truth independent of which size community one lives in. That's what I was getting at.
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I will waste little time trying to explain rural values to you. Basically, they have a lot to do with "guns, god, and religion." They have to do a lot with personal responsibility and not waiting around for the government to solve problems through social welfare programs. They have to do with, according to a lifetime democrat-voting colleague who will be voting for McCain/Palin this year--that there is an abortion litmus test in todays democratic party that turns many people away.
I think it's "guns, God and gays"--at least, if you meant to use Howard Dean and Chuck Norris as a phrasing source.

I grew up in a town the size of yours and have spent the better part of my life since in towns that size as well, so I do understand the kinds of concerns you're talking about. But I wouldn't characterize most of them as "values," and certainly not as values uniquely characteristic of rural people. Hunting is a pastime and a way of procuring food, not a "value" (although, Scary Urban Elites Are Coming To Take Your Guns Away!! sure makes it sound like one). Rural people are more likely to attend church regularly, because it's a major locus for socialization (and ad-hoc community charity) in an environment that doesn't offer many; but at least in my experience, they're no more likely to be personally pious than people elsewhere. In many cases, rural people don't have anywhere near the access to various publically funded services (nor to private services like abortion clinics, counseling services and daycare centers) that city-dwellers and suburbanites do, so yes, there's a certain sense of self-sufficiency there, and often also a sense of shame about being on public assistance that has much to do with being unable to keep it private in a place where everyone knows everyone's business. But that independence is easily overstated: according to the Census Bureau, rural Americans account for 25% of those on means-tested public assistance (food stamps, Medicaid, SSI, AFDC/TANF etc.), yet they're only 19.8% of the population--meaning they're overrepresented among such recipients by 25%, whereas central-city dwellers (allegedly the great 'welfare magnets,' right?) are overrepresented by only about half as much, 13%. And that doesn't even take into account other forms of public assistance, like price supports and other farm programs, that are widespread in many rural areas. (Alaska **coughcough**, the Great Plains, and the Mississippi Delta region receive the most federal funding.) So the data don't back up this 'smalltown self-sufficiency' rhetoric...and again, even if they did, why all the highly idealized emphasis on this particular group of voters, as if they're the last word in 'authentic' American 'values,' when the truth is they're less than 20% of us and shrinking? Why are so many politicians and voters who in reality don't know the first thing about rural life so eager to proclaim their loyalty to 'small town values'--what's really being said there?
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Old 10-05-2008, 09:26 PM   #403
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Oh, "Strongbow" is actually the artist formorly know as "Sting2"?

I didn't know that. I've been away for awhile in FYM. Now I remember why I left.

Sting2 and I had numerous battles back in 2003, with all his statistics and hyperbole.
You would think anyone that argued for the WMD's in Iraq so badly would have at least admitted he was wrong; or lost complete credabilty in this forum.

Stingbow:
Check it out man: U2 were never pro-war in any shape or form. Maybe you've heard their music at some point? Or you just became a fan in 2001?
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Old 10-06-2008, 02:32 AM   #404
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Oh, "Strongbow" is actually the artist formorly know as "Sting2"?

I didn't know that. I've been away for awhile in FYM. Now I remember why I left.

Sting2 and I had numerous battles back in 2003, with all his statistics and hyperbole.
You would think anyone that argued for the WMD's in Iraq so badly would have at least admitted he was wrong; or lost complete credabilty in this forum.

Stingbow:
Check it out man: U2 were never pro-war in any shape or form. Maybe you've heard their music at some point? Or you just became a fan in 2001?



Quote:
Can we get back to election-related topics, or do I need to lock this one?

And yes, please, if it's a choice between using your ignore lists and collectively slamming another poster (in the third person no less), then use the fricking ignore list.

.
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Old 10-06-2008, 07:48 AM   #405
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so I will waste little time trying to explain rural values to you......... They have to do a lot with personal responsibility and not waiting around for the government to solve problems through social welfare programs.

I have to wholeheartedly disagree.

Tell your rural friends that the US Government will no longer give them farming subsidies.


See how they feel about that.
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