2008 U.S. Presidential Campaign Discussion Thread 13: Victory Lap

[Jeannieco]

I apologize for interrupting the conversation with that enormous picture.
I didn't realize it would copy over so large.

 

[diamond]

A conversation with Bill Ayers on election day. I do feel, and always have felt sorry for the dude through all of this.


Online Only: The New Yorker

Mr. Ayers’s Neighborhood

Early this morning, the Obama family voted at the Beulah Shoesmith Elementary School, in Hyde Park. Long after they had gone, the lawn in front of the school was filled with reporters, mostly Europeans, filming voters. While I was talking to an eight-year-old kid dressed as George Washington, my colleague Peter Slevin, of the Washington Post was across the street, knocking on the door of someone else who had voted at the Shoesmith School this morning: William Ayers.

Ayers has avoided reporters ever since he became an election talking point, scratch pole, and general sensation. But now he answered the door of his three-story row house, and I joined the discussion. Ayers is sixty-four and has earrings in both ears. He wore jeans and a Riley T-shirt—Riley the kid from “Boondocks.” The day was fall-bright and 50th Street was filled with fallen gold leaves. Ayers waved to neighbors and kids as they went by on the sidewalk. He was, for the first time in a long while, in an expansive mood, making clear that, in all the months his name has been at the forefront of the campaign, he and his wife, Bernardine Dohrn—ex-leaders of the Weather Underground and longtime educators and activists in the community—have been watching a lot of cable television, not least Fox.

“No one read it when it was first issued!” He said that he laughed, too, when he listened to Sarah Palin’s descriptions of Obama “palling around with terrorists.” In fact, Ayers said that he knew Obama only slightly: “I think my relationship with Obama was probably like that of thousands of others in Chicago and, like millions and millions of others, I wished I knew him better.”







Ayers said he felt “a lot of sympathy” for the Reverend Jeremiah Wright, “who was treated grotesquely and unfairly” by the media. He said that Martin Luther King Jr. was, in his time, far more radical than Wright: “Wright’s a wimp compared to Martin Luther King—he had a fiercer tone.”

Ayers was referring to the speeches King gave late in his life in opposition to the Vietnam War and on the subject of economic equality. “Martin Luther King was not a saint,” Ayers said. “He was an angry pilgrim.”



Across the street, neighborhood kids chanted “O-ba-ma! O-ba-ma!” and “Yes we can!” for the cameras. Ayers smiled, looking a little like a more boomer Fred MacMurray in an episode of “My Three Sons.”

“I wish I had done more, but it doesn’t mean I wish we’d bombed more shit.”

“While we did claim several extreme acts, they were acts of extreme radicalism against property,” he said. “We killed no one and hurt no one.

Three of our people killed themselves.” And yet he was not without regrets. He mocked one of his earlier books, co-written with Dohrn, saying that, while it still is reflective of his radical and activist politics today, he was guilty of “rhetoric that’s juvenile and inflated—it is what it is.”

“I wish I had been wiser,” Ayers said. “I wish I had been more effective, I wish I’d been more unifying, I wish I’d been more principled.”

Ayers said that his life hasn’t been much altered by recent months, though he decided to postpone the re-release of his memoir, “Fugitive Days”—“I didn’t want it to be put in the meat grinder of this moment.” Two books he co-edited will also be republished soon: “City Kids, City Schools” and “City Kids, City Teachers.”

QUOTE]

Martin Luther King and Jerimiah Wright are not similar in any way.

Ayers and his wife did kill people: people died because of their activities.
He's an unrepentant doper/terrorist. They bombed the Pentagon.


Said his wife and co colaborator of the Manson-Sharon Tate murder:

'Cool. After they kiled them, they stuck forks in their bellies. WILD"

(something to that effect.)

If Obama and Ayers didn't know eachother why did Obama blurb Ayers' book?:

The Blog @ Spolitics � Obama Blurbed Ayers’s Book

I'm sick of the lies.

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[A_Wanderer]

Dopers are terrorists now?

 

[martha]

I'm sick of the lies.

 

[diamond]

if you cannot deduce that ayers likes rope, i can't help you.

<>

 

[diamond]

Why isn't Barrack attending his Grandma's funeral?

After all this is the lady that raised him.

Usmagazine.com | News - Public Memorial Set for Barack Obama's Beloved Grandmother

Something feels odd here.

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[corianderstem]

He's an unrepentant doper/terrorist.
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So liking the wacky tobacky is on par with being a terrorist? Why the hell would you put those two terms together?

.... wait, why am I asking diamond anything? Have I forgotten there's no point? Hmm. I must flee and ponder this.

Pass me that joint, will you?

 

[A_Wanderer]

I'll bring the mushrooms.

 

[anitram]

diamond, you're sick.

 

[onebloodonelife]

if you cannot deduce that ayers likes rope, i can't help you.

<>

He might, but what does that have to do with him being a terrorist? You do realize that there are millions and millions of pot smokers in this country who don't bomb buildings and plenty of people who bomb buildings who have never touched marijuana, right? They aren't related in the least bit.

 

[martha]

Something feels odd here.

Put both hands back on the wheel, then.

 

[A_Wanderer]

He might, but what does that have to do with him being a terrorist? You do realize that there are millions and millions of pot smokers in this country who don't bomb buildings and plenty of people who bomb buildings who have never touched marijuana, right? They aren't related in the least bit.

There is an inverse correlation as the devoutly religious terrorists are less likely to take drugs.

This could be useful though we can have mandatory alcohol on all flights for security and a bacon sandwich

 

[onebloodonelife]

There is an inverse correlation as the devoutly religious terrorists are less likely to take drugs.

This could be useful though we can have mandatory alcohol on all flights for security and a bacon sandwich

Alright, I phrased that poorly then. What I meant to say is that smoking marijuana doesn't automatically make you a terrorist.

 

[A_Wanderer]

It automatically make you a criminal, because of ignorance and prejudice from a block of anti-freedom voters.

 

[onebloodonelife]

It automatically make you a criminal, because of ignorance and prejudice from a block of anti-freedom voters.

Oh, trust me, I know. I suppose a conversation about drug laws is for another thread though...all I have to say is thank goodness that I at least live in a state that has possession under a little over an ounce decriminalized.

 

[diamond]

He might, but what does that have to do with him being a terrorist? .

No, I'm not saying smoking dope makes you a terrorist.

I do question his unrepentant attitude.

His unrepentant attitude could be linked to his not wanting to his face reality.

He *appears* to have the demeanor of a carefree pothead.

Potheads usually have different realities from sober people.

He appears to be a pothead.

<>

 

[diamond]

diamond, you're sick.

or
onto

something.

<>

 

[onebloodonelife]

No, I'm not saying smoking dope makes you a terrorist.

I do question his unrepentant attitude.

His unrepentant attitude could be linked to his not wanting to his face reality.

He *appears* to have the demeanor of a carefree pothead.

A lot potheads have different realities from sober people.

<>

Or, he could simply not be regretful about what he did. Which could have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not he smokes pot.

(For the record, I'm not supporting his actions or apparent uncaring attitude about what he did.)

 

[diamond]

Dopers are terrorists now?

sometimes:

YouTube - OBAMA: Bill Ayers Admits Drug Use and Loss of Memory

 

[diamond]

Or, he could simply not be regretful about what he did. QUOTE]

Apparently he's both.

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[A_Wanderer]

Are mormons immune to irony?

 

[diamond]

no.

 

[VintagePunk]

Martin Luther King and Jerimiah Wright are not similar in any way.

And you know this because you were active in the movement, and know both of these men intimately? Or did your inside people tell you?

Ayers and his wife did kill people: people died because of their activities.
He's an unrepentant doper/terrorist. They bombed the Pentagon.

The only people who died as a result of the activities of The Weathermen are a few of their own members, while messing around with a bomb. I don't think the US government can say the same thing. Kent State, anyone? Quite a few people had blood on their hands back then.

Said his wife and co colaborator of the Manson-Sharon Tate murder:

'Cool. After they kiled them, they stuck forks in their bellies. WILD"

(something to that effect.)

Bernardine Dohrn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dohrn's husband Bill Ayers has written that Dohrn was being ironic when she made the statement:[10]

I didn't hear that exactly, but words that were close enough I guess. Her speech was focused on the murder just days earlier of our friend Fred Hampton, the Black Panther leader [...] She linked Fred's murder to the murders of other Panthers around the country, to the assassinations of Malcolm X and Patrice Lumumba, the CIA attempts on Fidel's life, and then to the ongoing terror in Viet Nam. "This is the state of the world," she cried. "This is what screams out for our attention and our response. And what do we find in our newspapers? A sick fascination with a story that has it all: a racist psycho, a killer cult, and a chorus line of Hollywood bodies. Dig it! ..."

If Obama and Ayers didn't know eachother why did Obama blurb Ayers' book?:

The Blog @ Spolitics � Obama Blurbed Ayers’s Book


I'm sick of the lies.

<>

I don't recall anyone ever having said they don't know each other. Of course they do, that's been well established. They were colleagues. They lived in the same neighbourhood. They were friendly, as neighbours and colleagues often are. But were they bffs? Are you bffs with everyone you work with and live near?

Let's not forget - Bill and Bernadine both turned themselves in. Charges against him were dropped. She was fined and was placed on probation. They've both paid whatever debt they owed to society long ago, and now they're just boring old academics.


Funny, but I saw Palin in an interview yesterday, continuing to blather on about this very thing, saying that Ayers is fair game, and that Obama should be questioned for his associations, just like her and Grandpa Crabby Pants should be for theirs. Okay then. What about Charles Keating? What about the Alaskan Independence Party, with whom good ol' Sarah had been sleeping and residing with a card-carrying member as recently as a couple of years ago, as well as speaking at their meetings herself? They're a pretty radical group, if you look into them. Probably a front for a militant militia group. So yeah, let's go digging there, shall we? I'm sick of the lies.

 

[diamond]

Sarah doesn't blather.



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[U2isthebest]

Sarah doesn't blather.



<>

No, no, because, uh, you know, I'm sure that some of my impatience showed through, in that, uh, in that interview, um, I think it also showed though that certainly as a Washington outsider and as somebody not, um, not, uh, not one ta, uh, justa, I guess kinda play even the, the campaignin' media game that is played in, in, um, just, um repeatin' perhaps memorized lines in a in an interview, that's not me.

That was from the Wolf Blitzer interview. The two year old I used to baby-sit could put together a more coherent sentence.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Can't mormons understand irony?

no.

The correct answer is yes, think about it.

 

[diamond]

i suppose.

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[A_Wanderer]

 

[toscano]

polygon is just doing what Palin tried to do, derail everyone from the issue at hand.

Now that his bigotry has been satiated with prop 8, it's back to being a regular old limbaugh parrot/ass.

replying just feeds the flame.....

 

[Strongbow]

i would have danced if Hillary won, though, and still would have gone down to the White House to say good by to the least popular president in history.

According to the polls, Harry Truman and Richard Nixon were more unpopular than Bush has been at any time during his Presidency. Harry Truman was down to 22% approval in 1952, his last year in office. Nixon was down to 24% before he left office. Bush has been close, but is still ahead of both with his lowest rating coming in at 25% following the financial crises.

All though there are no polls to show it, the most unpopular a President has ever been when they were in office was probably Abraham Lincoln. Nearly half the country was at war with him in 1864, and only half of those who remained in the Union supported his re-election. Without Sherman taken Atlanta in 1864, Lincoln probably would not have been re-elected President by those that remained in the Union.