2008 U.S. Presidential Campaign Discussion Thread 13: Victory Lap - Page 34 - U2 Feedback

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Old 11-09-2008, 08:39 PM   #496
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qft
How does it even make sense to address someone in the form of, "Former President Clinton, What do you think...?" Um, he knows he's not the president anymore, dumbass.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:09 PM   #497
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So at church today, my pastor said that God told him that history will vindicate President Bush, and he'll end up being one of our best loved and most successful presidents. At that point, I walked out. I'm pretty sure I'm done at this church.
I have a huge problem with *anyone* who says that God told him/her something!
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:49 PM   #498
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Kids, this is why you should never watch the floating, empty heads at Faux News. What an

EPIC FAIL
Indeed. I liked in the related videos the one about Matt Groening on the Daily Show who told Jon Stewart how he was no longer allowed to ridicule Fox News on the Simpsons because viewers could mistake that for real news. Can be viewed here: Matt Groening | The Daily Show | Comedy Central

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How does it even make sense to address someone in the form of, "Former President Clinton, What do you think...?" Um, he knows he's not the president anymore, dumbass.
The viewer might not know and get confused.

In German it's also different. Former Chancellors get commonly referred to as ex-Chancellor. But when directly addressed, we almost never call a person by their position.
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Old 11-12-2008, 05:10 AM   #499
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"After US Breakthrough, Europe Looks in Mirror"

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/12/wo...html?ref=world
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Old 11-13-2008, 03:05 AM   #500
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A conversation with Bill Ayers on election day. I do feel, and always have felt sorry for the dude through all of this. By all accounts, he's lived a very quiet, uncontroversial, conventional life for decades now. Were his former activities wrong? I guess that's up to each individual to decide, but you have to look at it within the context of the era and culture to get the full picture. I do know that every time Palin made the claim that Obama had been "pallin' around with terrorists," I wanted to shake her and tell her to get a grip. Geez, what a dumbass. Anyway, here it is:




Online Only: The New Yorker

Mr. Ayers’s Neighborhood



Early this morning, the Obama family voted at the Beulah Shoesmith Elementary School, in Hyde Park. Long after they had gone, the lawn in front of the school was filled with reporters, mostly Europeans, filming voters. While I was talking to an eight-year-old kid dressed as George Washington, my colleague Peter Slevin, of the Washington Post was across the street, knocking on the door of someone else who had voted at the Shoesmith School this morning: William Ayers.

Ayers has avoided reporters ever since he became an election talking point, scratch pole, and general sensation. But now he answered the door of his three-story row house, and I joined the discussion. Ayers is sixty-four and has earrings in both ears. He wore jeans and a Riley T-shirt—Riley the kid from “Boondocks.” The day was fall-bright and 50th Street was filled with fallen gold leaves. Ayers waved to neighbors and kids as they went by on the sidewalk. He was, for the first time in a long while, in an expansive mood, making clear that, in all the months his name has been at the forefront of the campaign, he and his wife, Bernardine Dohrn—ex-leaders of the Weather Underground and longtime educators and activists in the community—have been watching a lot of cable television, not least Fox.

One night, Ayers recalled, he and Dohrn were watching Bill O’Reilly, who was going on about “discovering” Ayers’s 1974 manifesto, “Prairie Fire.” “I had to laugh,” Ayers said. “No one read it when it was first issued!” He said that he laughed, too, when he listened to Sarah Palin’s descriptions of Obama “palling around with terrorists.” In fact, Ayers said that he knew Obama only slightly: “I think my relationship with Obama was probably like that of thousands of others in Chicago and, like millions and millions of others, I wished I knew him better.”

Ayers said that while he hasn’t been bothered by the many threats—“and I’m not complaining”—the calls and e-mails he has received have been “pretty intense.” “I got two threats in one day on the Internet,” he said, referring to an incident that took place last summer when he was sitting in his office at the University of Illinois-Chicago, where he has taught education for two decades. “The first one said there was a posse coming to shoot me, and the second said they were going to kidnap me and water-board me. This friend of mine, a university cop, said, ‘Gosh, I hope the guy who’s coming to shoot you gets here first.’”

Ayers seemed curiously calm and cheerful about the way he had been made an issue in the campaign. He seemed unbothered to have been part of what he called “the Swiftboating” process of the 2008 campaign.

“It’s all guilt by association,” Ayers said. “They made me into a cartoon character—they threw me up onstage just to pummel me. I felt from the beginning that the Obama campaign had to run the Obama campaign and I have to run my life.” Ayers said that once his name became part of the campaign maelstrom he never had any contact with the Obama circle. “That’s not my world,” he said.

As the polling day drew into the late afternoon, the level of security in Hyde Park matched the level of anticipation. Obama’s house, four blocks away, was surrounded.

Ayers said he felt “a lot of sympathy” for the Reverend Jeremiah Wright, “who was treated grotesquely and unfairly” by the media. He said that Martin Luther King Jr. was, in his time, far more radical than Wright: “Wright’s a wimp compared to Martin Luther King—he had a fiercer tone.” Ayers was referring to the speeches King gave late in his life in opposition to the Vietnam War and on the subject of economic equality. “Martin Luther King was not a saint,” Ayers said. “He was an angry pilgrim.” Ayers said that he had commiserated recently with yet another former Hyde Park neighbor (and fellow Little League coach), the Palestinian-American scholar Rashid Khalidi, now at Columbia University, who has also been a punching bag of the right wing in recent weeks.

Across the street, neighborhood kids chanted “O-ba-ma! O-ba-ma!” and “Yes we can!” for the cameras. Ayers smiled, looking a little like a more boomer Fred MacMurray in an episode of “My Three Sons.”

Ayers said that he had never meant to imply, in an interview with the Times, published coincidentally on 9/11, that he somehow wished he and the Weathermen had committed further acts of violence in the old days. Instead, he said, “I wish I had done more, but it doesn’t mean I wish we’d bombed more shit.” Ayers said that he had never been responsible for violence against other people and was acting to end a war in Vietnam in which “thousands of people were being killed every week.”

“While we did claim several extreme acts, they were acts of extreme radicalism against property,” he said. “We killed no one and hurt no one. Three of our people killed themselves.” And yet he was not without regrets. He mocked one of his earlier books, co-written with Dohrn, saying that, while it still is reflective of his radical and activist politics today, he was guilty of “rhetoric that’s juvenile and inflated—it is what it is.”

“I wish I had been wiser,” Ayers said. “I wish I had been more effective, I wish I’d been more unifying, I wish I’d been more principled.”

Ayers said that his life hasn’t been much altered by recent months, though he decided to postpone the re-release of his memoir, “Fugitive Days”—“I didn’t want it to be put in the meat grinder of this moment.” Two books he co-edited will also be republished soon: “City Kids, City Schools” and “City Kids, City Teachers.”

It was late afternoon, and Ayers was talking about his plans for the evening: he was heading to Grant Park with some friends for what they assumed would be a mass victory party. “This is an achingly exciting moment,” he said.

As we were getting ready to go, after an hour of front-stoop conversation, a neighbor came by and ironically reminded Ayers of the event that he and his wife held for Obama in 1995 when Obama was making his run for the Illinois state senate. "Everyone, including you, wants to have a coffee here," he joked to the neighbor. “I don’t know what the fuck I’m going to do!”

(Photograph by Peter Slevin, Washington Post, outside Bill Ayers’s home in the Hyde Park neighborhood of Chicago, Nov. 4, 2008.)
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Old 11-13-2008, 02:13 PM   #501
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Hillary would have won by a much wider margin?

Why do you say that?

I have the utmost respect for her and feel that she would have been a great president. I respect what Bill Clinton did politically and wish his presidency never ended. However, there is a huge divide between the GOP and Bill Clinton and it would have carried on. I think we would have been headed for a presidency full of jokes and scandals pushed at the media by the GOP because of Bill Clinton's past. It just wouldn't have worked.

Obama is the change needed to hopefully bridge the parties together. I voted for him by a narrow decision in the primaries because I truly respect Hillary, but she just wouldn't have been the right choice to take over after Bush/Clinton/Bush.

Quote:
Who Were Those Clinton-McCain Crossover Voters?

Posted by Vaughn Ververs| Comments113


CBS News’ Election and Survey Unit’s survey analyst extraordinaire Jennifer De Pinto goes inside the exit polls from last week’s election and finds some interesting nuggets about those Hillary Clinton supporters who voted for John McCain:

As voters left the polls on Election Day, many were asked how they would have voted if the election match-up were between Hillary Clinton and John McCain rather than Barack Obama and McCain. 52 percent said they would have backed the former Democratic candidate; 41 percent would have voted for McCain, wider than Obama’s 7-point margin over McCain.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/11...e=search_story


And this does not take into account if Obama was her V P.
this way McCain only lost by about 6%

Please understand, I am happy Obama won.
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Old 11-13-2008, 02:20 PM   #502
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So at church today, my pastor said that God told him that history will vindicate President Bush, and he'll end up being one of our best loved and most successful presidents. At that point, I walked out. I'm pretty sure I'm done at this church.

In 1993-94, I was attending what I thought was a broad-minded non-denominational large Christian Church.

Then they started plastering the cars with right-wing political tracks during the service. Also, I was not not happy that their book store contained books that bashed other religions, and even misrepresented them.

At that time I realized I what I was seeking was more 'spiritual' and less 'religious'.
I am much happier now not attending any church on a regular basis.
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Old 11-13-2008, 02:28 PM   #503
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And this does not take into account if Obama was her V P.
this way McCain only lost by about 6%

Please understand, I am happy Obama won.


exit polls.

i think the GOP would have been able to have run a much more effective campaign against HRC, and i don't think that Palin would have been on the ticket had HRC been the nominee.

i think Hillary would have won, but there would never have been the dancing in the streets like you saw last Tuesday.

i would have danced if Hillary won, though, and still would have gone down to the White House to say good by to the least popular president in history.
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Old 11-13-2008, 02:48 PM   #504
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exit polls.

i think the GOP would have been able to have run a much more effective campaign against HRC, and i don't think that Palin would have been on the ticket had HRC been the nominee.

i think Hillary would have won, but there would never have been the dancing in the streets like you saw last Tuesday.

i would have danced if Hillary won, though, and still would have gone down to the White House to say good by to the least popular president in history.
The reason I left this conversation is because it is pointless

it is so hypothetical,

But I do believe Hillary would have had Obama as her V P and his supporters would have still been fired up and ready to go, to have him be V P, seen as a stepping stone to the Presidency.

Also, If McCain chose Romney, that would really have hurt him more.

Palin was the best pick.


I do not bring this up to detract from Obama's win.

Just like Palin fired up a good portion of the base and was a bigger draw than McCain at rallies.

Obama would have had his same star power for a Hillary / Obama ticket.

It would have been seen as the launching pad for a future Obama Presidency.


and I do believe there would have been some dancing in the streets.


Again, I am happy for the Obama/ Biden win.
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Old 11-13-2008, 02:56 PM   #505
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a Hillary/Obama ticket would have been very powerful, no question.
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Old 11-13-2008, 03:14 PM   #506
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Palin failed to draw in moderates, which is why I don't think she was the best pick for VP.
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Old 11-13-2008, 03:37 PM   #507
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Have you guys seen this? It's the new cover of The New Yorker.. I love it!

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Old 11-13-2008, 03:40 PM   #508
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That's pretty cool.
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Old 11-13-2008, 03:56 PM   #509
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Palin failed to draw in moderates, which is why I don't think she was the best pick for VP.
And here lies the entire problem. John McCain and others are calling her the future of the Republican party. It simply goes to show how out of touch Republicans are with the American people. She's the demise of the Republican party if they allow her to advance much more in the national system. She's the breed, so to speak, of Republican that has to die if the GOP ever wants to join the rest of us in the 21st century. She's of the far right, evangelical neocons. This year, we as an electorate finally realized they don't have our best interest at heart. We finally realized that it's because of that small base of powerful Republicans that we've been stuck in a rehash of the 1968 election for the past 40 years. Simply put, the Republicans of 2008 and the past 30-odd years are going to go the way of the Democrats in 68 unless they find a way to reach out to voters of every bloc and not just their small, narrow-minded partisan yes-people. And frankly, they (the GOP leaders) have shown no real understanding or desire to understand what has gone so terribly wrong with their party and its role in governing. Maybe it's their turn to wander in the wilderness for 40 years.
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:07 PM   #510
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I have to say, that's a beautiful magazine cover. I might have to pick that up.
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