2008 Presidential Election : Third Debate - Page 32 - U2 Feedback

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Old 10-16-2008, 12:03 PM   #466
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Originally Posted by diamond View Post
What's stopping the Obama camp from clicking endlessly?

With ACORN they vote more than once, why not here?



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Good point. Apparently there are more citizens of Nevada than previously thought?
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:24 PM   #467
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I didn't watch much of it at all. I had to see the Project Runway season finale and then I tried to watch the debate, but McCain's smarmy smirk made me tune out quickly.

I just want to know if Joe the plumber has plumber's crack
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:26 PM   #468
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He should lose just based on this. Seriously.
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:29 PM   #469
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He should lose just based on this. Seriously.
He's like "Bull$&it, Obama."
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:31 PM   #470
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Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post
He's like "Bull$&it, Obama."
Actually he looks like a smarmy teenager
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:40 PM   #471
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Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:43 PM   #472
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Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post
He should lose just based on this. Seriously.
It sort of looks to me like he nodded off for a sec, then caught himself.

I wonder if these long campaign hours are tiring him out. He is 72, after all.
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:58 PM   #473
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the problem is the following: McCain's entire career and campaign have been built around this one assumption -- McCain is awesome!

and people have bought into this for years. sure, he did some awesome things, and some not so awesome things, but there's nothing coherent about his record other than that it was about his own belief in his own awesomeness. he got the media to believe it. but when Obama calmly challenged that awesomeness, McCain went nuts because he's always based himself on his own unchallenged awesomeness. so that's as big a reason as any as to why McCain is losing these debates -- he's insulted that someone has the temerity to challenge his central narrative, especially when that narrative, under scrutiny, turns out to be little more than a well maintained self delusion.

Obama wants to talk about issues he thinks that people care about. McCain wants to talk about how awesome he's been and will be as president. no wonder Obama crushed him in all three debates.
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:07 PM   #474
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My Dad, the Jessie Jackson supporter felt that McCain won last night. I did not. What scares me is I have never ever voted for a winning Presidential candidate before. I am about to vote for Obama.
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:36 PM   #475
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http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/15/smal....smb/index.htm
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Fact check: Plumber Joe's taxes
McCain has entrepreneurs spooked about tax hikes, but fewer than 2% of small business owners would pay more under Obama's plan.


See all CNNMoney.com RSS FEEDS (close) By Stacy Cowley
Last Updated: October 16, 2008: 12:30 PM ET

Plumber Joe Wurzelbacher heard his name invoked more than two dozen times in the final presidential debate.

(CNNMoney.com) -- In speech after speech, presidential candidate John McCain hammers on the claim that his rival Barack Obama will raise taxes on many small businesses.

At the debate on Wednesday night, McCain said, "The small businesses that we're talking about would receive an increase in their taxes right now."

More typically he has said: "What [Obama] hasn't told you is that he would tax half of the income of small businesses in America," a line used in La Crosse, Wisc., last week.

Should small business owners fear for their wallets if Obama is elected? Not the vast majority, business and tax experts say.

To make its claim, according to a McCain spokesman, the campaign counts as a small-business owner any taxpayer who files a Schedule C, E or F - the forms used to report gains and losses from business ventures and farms.

Using that definition and citing IRS data, the campaign notes that "56.8% of total small business income is earned by businesses in the top two rates, which Barack Obama has pledged to raise."

It's true that Obama has proposed raising taxes on the top two income rates.

But there are three main problems with McCain's charge.


What is a small business?
First, it relies on a broad definition of what counts as a small business, including everyone who files a Schedule C, E and F.

But most people who file those forms don't run a business for a living: Those forms are also used to report income from freelance and consulting work, real-estate rentals, and most other non-salary sources.

For example, McCain and Obama both file Schedule C returns, thanks to their book royalties - but they hardly should be considered small business owners.

In 2005, there were 21.5 million Schedule C returns filed, according to the IRS.

A more realistic definition of small businesses turns up far fewer firms. The Small Business Administration estimates that there were 6 million small businesses in 2005, as measured by those with fewer than 500 employees and with staff on the payroll other than the owner.

Who pays?
Second, even using the broad definition of small business that McCain likes, very few owners would see their own taxes rise.

That's because the lion's share of taxable income comes from a small number of wealthy businesses. Out of 34.7 million filers with business income on Schedules C, E or F, 479,000 filers fall into the top two brackets,
according to an analysis of projected 2009 filings by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.

The other 34.3 million - or 98.6% - would be unaffected by Obama's proposed rate hike.

That includes Joe "The Plumber" Wurzelbacher, whom McCain invoked nearly two dozen times at the debate Wednesday night to illustrate the plight of the average worker and small business owner.

"Joe wants to buy the business that he has been in for all of these years ... he wanted to buy the business but he looked at your tax plan and he saw that he was going to pay much higher taxes," McCain said.

In an interview afterward with WTOL, Wurzelbacher acknowledged that he'd still like to eventually buy the plumbing company he works for but that he wouldn't yet be hit by higher taxes.

"I want to set the record straight: Currently I would not fall into Barack Obama's $250,000-plus," he said. "But if I'm lucky in business and taxes don't go up then maybe I can grow the business and be in that tax bracket - well, let me rephrase it. Hopefully, that tax won't be there."

Few owners are that lucky in business. In a member survey conducted late last year, the National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB) found that only 14% of respondents said they had $200,000 or more in annual income.

As Tax Policy Center fellow Len Berman recently told Fortune Small Business: "Most owners of small businesses have small incomes."


What gets taxed?
Third, even if you're one of the rare business owners making enough money to be affected by Obama's proposed tax increases, you still won't see a big hike in your tax bill.
McCain's claim that Obama "will increase taxes on 50% of small business revenue" - the line he used in the second presidential debate - is incorrect because of how income is taxed.

If a business owner falls into the top bracket, that doesn't mean that all of his or her income is taxed at the highest level.

For example: If a small-business owner makes $210,000 in taxable income, he edges into the 33% bracket, one of the two top tax rates that Obama would like to raise.

But he would pay the higher tax only on the amount that exceeds the cutoff
- in 2007, the two top tax rates applied to single filers with income of $160,850 or more and joint filers with income of at least $195,850. As a single filer, this business owner would see his federal taxes increase $1,475 under Obama's plan, which calls for raising the 33% tax rate to 36%.

"While Obama does favor raising the top two rates, the quote is not true because not all the small business income of those in the top two rates is taxed at the 33% and 35% rates," said Gerald Prante, a senior economist at the nonpartisan Tax Foundation.

The bottom line: McCain's claim only works by using an overly broad definition of what counts as a "small business" - and even with that definition, fewer than 2% of business owners would be hit by Obama's proposed rate increase. For those who are affected, the increase would be levied only on a part of their earnings, not all of them.
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:40 PM   #476
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:47 PM   #477
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:49 PM   #478
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What is he doing in that first one?

Suddenly GWB looks dignified
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:54 PM   #479
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Officials: FBI investigates ACORN for voter fraud



Oct 16 01:25 PM US/Eastern
By LARA JAKES JORDAN
Associated Press Writer Write a Comment


WASHINGTON (AP) - The FBI is investigating whether the community activist group ACORN helped foster voter registration fraud around the nation before the presidential election.
A senior law enforcement official confirmed the investigation to The Associated Press on Thursday. A second senior law enforcement official says the FBI was looking at results of recent raids on ACORN offices in several states for any evidence of a coordinated national scam.

Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity because Justice Department regulations forbid discussing ongoing investigations particularly so close to an election.

ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, says it has registered 1.3 million young people, minorities and poor and working-class voters—most of whom tend to be Democrats.

Republican accusations about the group were raised during Wednesday's presidential debate between Democrat Barack Obama and GOP candidate John McCain.

Some ACORN employees have been accused of submitting false voter registration forms—including some signed `Mickey Mouse' or other fictitious characters.

Those voter registration cards have become the focus of fraud investigations in Nevada, Connecticut, Missouri and at least five other states. Election officials in Ohio and North Carolina also recently questioned the group's voter forms.

ACORN has said the "vast majority" of its workers are conscientious, but some might have turned in duplicate applications or provided fake information to pad their pay. Workers caught submitting false information have been fired, ACORN officials say.

ACORN says laws in a number of states require it to submit all registration cards it collects even dubious ones, so its workers segregate applications with missing, suspicious or false information and flag them so state election officials can quickly check them further.
Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:57 PM   #480
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If Mickey Mouse is a Democrat then the Republicans need Bugs Bunny.
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