So Whats Wrong With NLOTH
- Thread starter Batfink27
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Consider the context of the album.
Salome
you are what you is
if you're willing to make that leap of faith it shouldn't be difficult to find a theme in each and every U2 album
roy
Refugee
My point is that there's never a strong argument for either a sonic or lyrical cohesion to AB. Practically each reply starts with a 'it could be interpreted' type comment which to me sounds more like people wishing it was something (which to me) it simply isn't.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Well if we want to make those stretches then does that mean EBTTRT is about Edge and his relationship with a blow-up doll?
believer75
War Child
Talking about the Fly? That's what I see. I know it can be taken many different ways. Perhaps it is a leap of faith. But, to me it is about the self rebelling against the soul. Self and soul are at constant battle. To me, that is a relationship we all have to deal with on a daily basis.
I am not saying my interpretation is right, but that is how I can see a theme with this album. The others it is a bit more difficult to me. The new one and last one included.
last unicorn
Blue Crack Addict
All these are not arguments against the cohesion. You can have a book of stories or poems with changing perspectives or a film in episodes, still you can have a motive that's connecting everything. This album is about characters and their fate, and there are a lot of them on the album, and one of them happens to be Bono himself. I don't mind him singing about himself, especially if it's in an ironic way. I
For me, there is something really deep, spiritual, existential about that album, even the "lighter" songs, it's very human, and I don't need to name a theme to make it feel coherent for me. Even though I think I could name a few themes. I think we need to look a little behind the surface and not just take what meets the eye.
And since when do we ask: What are albums about? Novels, movies, okay, but albums? Does an album need a story, a narrative line?
Why can't everybody just make up their own personal theme, depending on their feelings, thoughts, interpretations? For some it may be "just" a collection of songs, which isn't a bad thing, for others there may be a concept behind it, even if it's just depending on a certain mood or feeling. For me, NLOTH is one of the most coherent albums I know. And I generally don't mind albums that have no coherence or concept, because that's usually not what I'm looking for in music.
Edge_Orchestra
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
Assuredly you mean "in your humble opinion".
Almost every review I've read gave it 4/5 or 5/5 stars and raved about how it's their best since Achtung Baby.
It's fine if you don't like it, you don't have to like it. But to make a blanket statement that it's not very good and flopping is not a very accurate statement.
No one is insisting you must like it. But you could be a bit more respectful. There is a huge difference between "It just doesn't speak to me" or "I just don't like it" than your assement that the album is bad, a flop and certain songs are poor.
believer75
War Child
It's cool, man.
That's why I love U2. They have a depth that does encourage people to talk about music. I do not feel like a lot of other bands (that I have heard) have that gift. I do not think anyone is right or wrong. I think that is where the "it could be interpreted" part comes in. I usually put that because I want to put it out there that that's the way I hear it. When I heard these songs, that is what they said to me. It's the album I do feel closest to and I feel like I understand the most. It allowed me to "get" U2. So, it made all their other albums make sense to me. I do feel a flow to these songs and do have a sense they all belong together.
It has been a fun debate. Even though we do not agree, I do respect your opinion.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Just so I have this straight...
1. We start out with a new beginning.
2. Edge has relationship with blow up doll.
3. They break up.
4. They break up again.
5. He wonders if anyone will be able to tame her.
6. He reaches the third stage of greif and lashes out by calling her cruel.
7. The Fly-could it be about the relationship between a man or woman and their soul, apparently
8. Edge finds God and acceptance through a belly dancer.
9. Gets drunk.
10. Tries to go back to her...
11. Realizes he's a hypicrite.
12. Becomes a terrorist...
I see this album in a whole new way now...
1. We start out with a new beginning.
2. Edge has relationship with blow up doll.
3. They break up.
4. They break up again.
5. He wonders if anyone will be able to tame her.
6. He reaches the third stage of greif and lashes out by calling her cruel.
7. The Fly-could it be about the relationship between a man or woman and their soul, apparently
8. Edge finds God and acceptance through a belly dancer.
9. Gets drunk.
10. Tries to go back to her...
11. Realizes he's a hypicrite.
12. Becomes a terrorist...
I see this album in a whole new way now...
believer75
War Child
hahaha...the things I never knew. I will never hear that song the same again.
Salome
you are what you is
oh, I fully agree
but if the battle between the self and the soul fits in because it can also be considered a kind of relationship then you could fit every U2 song in this theme
believer75
War Child
I also agree with you again!
But, I think the Fly and overall Achtung is where the self is trying to defeat the soul....and maybe self is taking the lead and has the upper hand.popshopper
Acrobat
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2002
- Messages
- 459
How on earth is it a stretch?
What do you think Until the end of the world is about if not the betrayal and breakup of a relationship, whether it be Jesus and Judas or a more conventional sexual relationship, the song is extremely careful not to localise.
And I think "I'm ready, I'm ready for what's next" would give Zoo Station's theme away, let me guess you think it's about trains?
I'm just down the line from your love... Zoo Station
You know I'm under the sign... Zoo Station
I've got to make it on time
Make it on time... Zoo Station
I'm gonna be there... Zoo Station
Tracing the line... Zoo Station
That's alright... Zoo Station
Just two stops down the line... Zoo Station
Just a stop down the line...
Achtung Baby from beginning to end is a relationship album, only the Fly is a stretch away from this, every other song is explicit.
popshopper
Acrobat
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2002
- Messages
- 459
Just so I have this straight...
1. We start out with a new beginning.
2. Edge has relationship with blow up doll.
3. They break up.
4. They break up again.
5. He wonders if anyone will be able to tame her.
6. He reaches the third stage of greif and lashes out by calling her cruel.
7. The Fly-could it be about the relationship between a man or woman and their soul, apparently
8. Edge finds God and acceptance through a belly dancer.
9. Gets drunk.
10. Tries to go back to her...
11. Realizes he's a hypicrite.
12. Becomes a terrorist...
I see this album in a whole new way now...
Wow, just wow. Just listen to the pretty noises.
Snowlock
Refugee
1. It's time to start dating again!
2. Meets a girl, tries to woo her
3. Then rationalize her into bed
4. Then scolds her when she refuses
5. Then laments that he can't get her
6. Then calls her a bitch
7. and decides he's too good for her or anyone.
8. But he cant get her off his mind
9. so he tries some drunk dialing
10. then pleading
11. until finally self loathing
12. causes him to give up on love all together.
2. Meets a girl, tries to woo her
3. Then rationalize her into bed
4. Then scolds her when she refuses
5. Then laments that he can't get her
6. Then calls her a bitch
7. and decides he's too good for her or anyone.
8. But he cant get her off his mind
9. so he tries some drunk dialing
10. then pleading
11. until finally self loathing
12. causes him to give up on love all together.
believer75
War Child
Nice!
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
I'm not saying "new beginnings" is a stretch, I just think it's a stretch to put it in context with Edge's relationship. I think it's more about the band.
Well it's not that careful. If anyone knows the story it's obvious. Plus, him calling out to Judas when live seals the deal...
I think some of the songs are painting to look like relationship songs, and if that works as a theme for you then cool, but even if painted as relationship songs I think it's a stretch to say it's all Edge's divorce.
I think LIB and UTEOTW are definately painted to look like relationship songs but are anything but man/woman relationship songs.
I guess I can kinda see how EBTTRT or TTTYAATW look like relationship songs.
But I don't think Zoo Station, The Fly or Acrobat come even close to looking like relationship songs.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
last unicorn
Blue Crack Addict
How does AB have a theme and NLOTH doesn't? I love both albums, but I don't see any more "theme" in AB than in NLOTH.
popshopper
Acrobat
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2002
- Messages
- 459
Zoo Station: "She's just down the line...Zoo Station"
And Acrobat? Come on, it's an obvious end of a relationship song
"Oh, it hurts baby
What are we going to do? Now it's all been said
No new ideas in the house and every book has been read"
Nice, here's my take:
1. start of the thought of starting something
2. start of the flirt/temptation
3. and 4. the conversation between the guy and the significant other for what he did with the other party
5. and 6. the guy's jealous of this second party rejecting/betraying him
7. and 8. but he's drawn back to the temptation
9. and 10. guilty conscience starts and he tries to crawl back home
11. he owns up to himself
12. he lost (the flirt ? Or significant other ?)
Bill Flanagan had the same idea about the album in his book...
solemole
War Child
it ain't 90s U2, and
it ain't 80s U2
it ain't 80s U2
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
It takes a little more than a "she" to make me think it's a relationship song...
To me those songs are obviously about the band.
last unicorn
Blue Crack Addict
Um, no, to both.
How just because two lines contain a YOU or a SHE, it isn't automatically a song about relationship.
Acrobat and Zoo Station are, IMO, clearly not relationships songs.
Not very good and flopping? It's #1 in 31 countries, it's the best-selling album of the year worldwide, most of us can't get enough of it, and, among the major music magazines, it's gotten the best reviews of ANY U2 album ever.
That said, there are a dozen things I would change on NLOTH. But I say that about most of their albums. In fact, Achtung Baby, though I consider it their best ever, frustrated me the most. AB could've been earth-moving, but sadly remains a mere mortal masterpiece. I feel the same way about NLOTH.
That said, there are a dozen things I would change on NLOTH. But I say that about most of their albums. In fact, Achtung Baby, though I consider it their best ever, frustrated me the most. AB could've been earth-moving, but sadly remains a mere mortal masterpiece. I feel the same way about NLOTH.
monsieur fly
War Child
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2008
- Messages
- 793
Oh no, please don't tell me you're one of those people who thinks every song has to be about God, the soul or sectarian violence? Look, LIB is a relationship song- yes there are allusions to terrorism but Bono admits that the Edge's divorce played an important part in its development. On balance the lyrics lead me to the story of a sordid, broken relationship. I agree with you on UTEOTW, though- it is clearly about Jesus- Judas has been "down the hole" i.e. hell and the Messiah will save him at the end of the world.
Many of the others are mainly about relationships in my view
EBTTRT- A sleazy one night stand- instant sexual gratification.
One- I see it as a love song- many don't, that's fine but the Jounaou video features a (rather lovely) girl so I'm guessing it's valid interpretation as any.
WGRYWH- A song about the end of a relationship
SC- Another troubled love song- religious imagery is the servant not the master here
MW- A woman again though I respect spiritual interpretations.
TTTYA- "gonna run to you run to you, woman be still"
UV- "Your love is like a secret that's been passed around"- need I say anymore?
It's only my opinion and I know U2 songs work on a number of levels but if Bono had me at gunpoint and asked me the one thing AB is about, I'd say romantic relationships.
elevated_u2_fan
Blue Crack Supplier
music is subjective
music is subjective
music is subjective
music is subjective
music is subjective
music is subjective
music is subjective
music is subjective
music is subjective
music is subjective
music is subjective
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
I never even mentioned God...
I used to agree with you about LIB, but I never could figure out and justify these lines:
"Love is clockworks
And cold steel
Fingers to numb to feel
Squeeze the handle
Blow out the candle"
Now one can make a stretch about the clockworks and cold steel being a metaphor for something... but the "squeeze the handle" part is pretty obvious to me.
I think that is such a minor part of the song. It's just to put it in context, but that isn't what it is really about...
I understand how many of these songs can look like they are about relationships, but with The Fly, Zoo Station, and Acrobat I have a hard time believing the Edge's divorce concept as a narrative.
Salome
you are what you is
the one thing I did like about Even better than the real thing is that I read the lyrics as (especially at the time) quite an interesting social commentary
if the song is indeed about relationship/one night stand then it slips even further down the rankings
if the song is indeed about relationship/one night stand then it slips even further down the rankings
What's wrong with NLOTH?
Not very much, imo. The only things I find I dislike are: (imo)
1. They wrote GOYB AND released it as the first single. Disasterous decision imo.
2. Bono with the makeup while the other 3 look exactly the same. Lame. imo.
3. SUC should've been a B side with Winter in it's place. imo.
apart from that I'm down wit it. imo.
Not very much, imo. The only things I find I dislike are: (imo)
1. They wrote GOYB AND released it as the first single. Disasterous decision imo.
2. Bono with the makeup while the other 3 look exactly the same. Lame. imo.
3. SUC should've been a B side with Winter in it's place. imo.
apart from that I'm down wit it. imo.
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