Ordinary Love Discussion (Part 2)

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Was pleasantly surpised when I got an email from Bull Moose.com saying my order for "Ordinary Love" was ready for shipment. I never dreamed there would have been any left after RSD. The fact that a record store DIDN'T put the remaining copies on Ebay for a small fortune...
 
Ordinary Love is a total grower...and I've been playing incessantly...:)

It reminds me of Beautiful Day...I wasn't sold on that song at first, but now...c'mon, it's a classic. OL is a great tease for the new album and only gets better with each listen.
 
david said:
IMG_20131129_172008.jpg


Mandela is eyeing my wine.
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Isn't that a brandy snifter? ;)

Abel & Cole organic, right? I thought they only had that here in the UK. Pretty good wine. The song...not so much.
 
Been listening to Ordinary Love again (U2's version :D), 3 times in a row just now while walking the dogs. It's certainly a grower, it's a very catchy chorus. The lyrics are not great and the quick fade-out at the end seems to make it all seem a bit slight...but I like it, very much.
 
Awful, awful, awful lyrics...even by late 00's Bono standards. "Your heart is on my sleeve, Did you put it there with a magic marker..." Really? That's just embarrassing. Did the guy who wrote Heartland write this? And the music, which normally might be able to save the lyric, is just boring as a dog's ass.

U2 used to pride themselves on being able to take the basic conventions of a pop song and turn it into something special. And this is just, well ordinary by today's pop standards and very much below ordinary for U2. It's not the worst thing I've ever heard, but I expect a lot more from U2, and there's absolutely nothing to show me that U2 is still a band capable of greatness in this. Anyone who thinks this is good U2 has seriously checked into fan denial mode.

I'm fairly certain, at some point U2 must have made fun of bands who wrote stuff like Ordinary Love. The good news is, they've put out a number of mediocre, one-off throwaway songs like this over the years, and that hasn't stopped them from still putting out extraordinary stuff on their regular releases. One can only hope that they gave this song to the movie b/c they didn't think it was good enough to be on the record. Or that they just released this song (their first new one in how many years?) just to lower our expectations, so that the first single, no matter how good, or bad, it is, is definitely a step up. So we can say "Well, at least it's better than Ordinary Love!"

I'm not even going to mention the abomination that is the b-side of this snoozer.
 
To each their own Nick66 :shrug:

There's nothing embarrasing about Ordinary Love. Bono's marker lyric took a second to sink in for me but I attribute it to some kind of writing/marking they might've done in jail on a prisoner's arm, perhaps where one's sleeve would normally fall over their bicep. I didn't do any research on this. But it gave me a visual, and it connected me to a prisoner's number perhaps, then to 46664 then to Mandela. It works. He could've said 'Your prisoner number Nelson is on your bicep', so it all works for me. That might be the weakest lyrical moment of the song and it still makes sense.

It's a different song all together than Heartland. I have thoughts and wishes about where I wish Bono could write this or that differently, but I accept what he's doing. I think he did a great job, as did the band, with this recording. I COMPLETELY disagree with you when you throw out there that anyone who thinks this is good U2 has checked into fan denial mode...um no. I don't appreciate my likes being generalized into a category that makes me and a bunch of other people seem like lame followers without thoughts & insight or good taste in music :angry: One thing that always gets to me in this forum is how opinionated people get and trash the majority of people over their like of a song. It's a flippin song. :huh:


Nick66 said:
Awful, awful, awful lyrics...even by late 00's Bono standards. "Your heart is on my sleeve, Did you put it there with a magic marker..." Really? That's just embarrassing. Did the guy who wrote Heartland write this? And the music, which normally might be able to save the lyric, is just boring as a dog's ass.

U2 used to pride themselves on being able to take the basic conventions of a pop song and turn it into something special. And this is just, well ordinary by today's pop standards and very much below ordinary for U2. It's not the worst thing I've ever heard, but I expect a lot more from U2, and there's absolutely nothing to show me that U2 is still a band capable of greatness in this. Anyone who thinks this is good U2 has seriously checked into fan denial mode.

I'm fairly certain, at some point U2 must have made fun of bands who wrote stuff like Ordinary Love. The good news is, they've put out a number of mediocre, one-off throwaway songs like this over the years, and that hasn't stopped them from still putting out extraordinary stuff on their regular releases. One can only hope that they gave this song to the movie b/c they didn't think it was good enough to be on the record. Or that they just released this song (their first new one in how many years?) just to lower our expectations, so that the first single, no matter how good, or bad, it is, is definitely a step up. So we can say "Well, at least it's better than Ordinary Love!"

I'm not even going to mention the abomination that is the b-side of this snoozer.
Click to expand...
 
mofo82 said:
Bono's marker lyric took a second to sink in for me but I attribute it to some kind of writing/marking they might've done in jail on a prisoner's arm, perhaps where one's sleeve would normally fall over their bicep. I didn't do any research on this. But it gave me a visual, and it connected me to a prisoner's number perhaps, then to 46664 then to Mandela. It works. He could've said 'Your prisoner number Nelson is on your bicep', so it all works for me. That might be the weakest lyrical moment of the song and it still makes sense.
Click to expand...

Well, yeah, but that's sort of my point really. As a fan, listener, whatever, I don't think you should have to do all these mental gymnastics to find excuses why a bad line is really an OK line. That's rationalising. If the magic marker story you imagine could be true, then it's Bono's job to convey it better. And in any event, I shouldn't have to know that story to appreciate the song. A truly good lyric...like Bono is capable of (or used to be), is able to convey even a simple, ordinary idea, like the one you describe, in a poetic fashion. That's what lyrics are supposed to be about really. So yeah, I do think trying to rationalise why something mediocre, or poor from something we love is really OK is kind of fanboyish. But that's pretty common place...we do it for music, movies, whatever. I still try to convince myself occasionally that the Star Wars prequels weren't that bad. But let's be real...all of us know U2 is capable of a lot better than this.

But sure, to each their own. I'm glad you liked it...I wish I could have.
 
Bono lyrics from the 80s are overrated -- often, they're pretty but pretty empty of actual meaning, and what he's lost in flourish in the 00's, he's made up for in actual emotional content. he's saying more, and show's a greater overall depth of insight, even if it's awkward (and, sure, there's some "butter on toast" or "heavy as a truck" crap). i think his mid-90s lyrics are the best, the lyrics being perhaps the most successful part of Pop.

i'd say "your heart is on my sleeve / did you put it there with magic marker" conveys much more meaning than "you plant a demon seed / you raise a flower of fire" or, more similarly, "all the promises we make / from the cradle to the grave."
 
Irvine511 said:
i'd say "your heart is on my sleeve / did you put it there with magic marker" conveys much more meaning than "you plant a demon seed / you raise a flower of fire" or, more similarly, "all the promises we make / from the cradle to the grave."
Click to expand...

I think there's no question his lyrics are probably more literate now than they were in the 80's. The question, at least to me, is not how much complex meaning each line contains (however awkwardly), but how well they work as lyrics...as part of the song.

Which is, after all, what we're talking about. Pop songs. You can be attempting to convey any number of ideas in a lyric...philosophy, religion, politics, whatever...and those ideas can be brilliant, but the lyric that contains them doesn't work in terms of the song, then they've failed. Yes, his 80's lyrics made for better songs, even if they weren't as "literate". They just worked better. The 90's, probably even moreso. Of course, the music had a lot to do with that as well. Most people will forgive iffy lyrics if the tune is good enough (e.g. Breathe).

I think a lot of Bono's lesser 00's output lyrically (and count this song among them) just falls flat. I'd rather him convey simple idea beautifully, and poetically, than a complex one in the awkward and stilted fashion that plagues much (but certainly not all) of his recent work. Pride, for example, isn't the most complex song lyrically (even containing an infamous mistake), but, as a song about a great man, succeeds in so many ways that Ordinary Love fails. Is anyone going to spend the next 30 years singing Ordinary Love? Is there anything in Ordinary Love as powerful, or able to evoke the character of the subject, as much as "Free at last, they took your life, they could not take your Pride"? In fact, is there anything in Ordinary Love that would tell you the song was about Mandela if the single didn't have his picture on it? IMO, the song is a failure on every level...lyrically, musically, and as tribute to its subject.

Perhaps in the 90's he hit the sweet spot, lyrically. As you point out, that decade certainly has some of his best.
 
When I listen to lyrics, it's the imagery that can seriously embellish or tarnish a tune. I'll take demon seed and flower of fire over freedom smelling like a baby's head, god helping a little ol' lady, and magic markers on sleeves any day of the week. The imagery in Bono's lyrics has gotten increasingly banal or just plain goofy with shocking regularity over the past 13 years IMHO. He's still capable of moments of poetic splendor, but they are becoming very few and far between.
 
Irvine511 said:
Bono lyrics from the 80s are overrated -- often, they're pretty but pretty empty of actual meaning, and what he's lost in flourish in the 00's, he's made up for in actual emotional content. he's saying more, and show's a greater overall depth of insight, even if it's awkward (and, sure, there's some "butter on toast" or "heavy as a truck" crap). i think his mid-90s lyrics are the best, the lyrics being perhaps the most successful part of Pop.

i'd say "your heart is on my sleeve / did you put it there with magic marker" conveys much more meaning than "you plant a demon seed / you raise a flower of fire" or, more similarly, "all the promises we make / from the cradle to the grave."
Click to expand...

:up:
 
Nick66 said:
I think a lot of Bono's lesser 00's output lyrically (and count this song among them) just falls flat. I'd rather him convey simple idea beautifully, and poetically, than a complex one in the awkward and stilted fashion that plagues much (but certainly not all) of his recent work. Pride, for example, isn't the most complex song lyrically (even containing an infamous mistake), but, as a song about a great man, succeeds in so many ways that Ordinary Love fails. Is anyone going to spend the next 30 years singing Ordinary Love? Is there anything in Ordinary Love as powerful, or able to evoke the character of the subject, as much as "Free at last, they took your life, they could not take your Pride"? In fact, is there anything in Ordinary Love that would tell you the song was about Mandela if the single didn't have his picture on it? IMO, the song is a failure on every level...lyrically, musically, and as tribute to its subject.
Click to expand...



i agree that Pride is a much better song than OL (you can count me in the "sick of PITNOL at concerts" crowd ... though i was moved to tears the first time i heard it live in 1997). it's kind of an unfair comparison -- Pride is an all-time classic, this is a soundtrack song. i think it's a great example of how a fantastic song can elevate lyrics.

we can agree to disagree about OL. i find it a solid B+ song with decent lyrics, actually, and i like how modern and clean it feels. i'm looking forward to finally hearing what DM has to offer, but i won't be disappointed if they don't play OL live.
 
lemonfly said:
When I listen to lyrics, it's the imagery that can seriously embellish or tarnish a tune. I'll take demon seed and flower of fire over freedom smelling like a baby's head, god helping a little ol' lady, and magic markers on sleeves any day of the week. The imagery in Bono's lyrics has gotten increasingly banal or just plain goofy with shocking regularity over the past 13 years IMHO. He's still capable of moments of poetic splendor, but they are becoming very few and far between.
Click to expand...


i think the "fire / dust / sky / rain" JT-era imagery is more banal than the baby's head line. you can call the above lines "baby's head / magic marker" failures because they're weird or whatever, but their not banal. i always thought "tuna fleets clearing the sea out" was pretty bonkers, but it's striking and memorable, even if not in a good way, much like baby's head.

goofy, yes; banal, no.

what do you consider good examples of Bono's past "poetic splendor"?
 
Good track - gets better with each listen which any U2 song that is any good does.

Bono's vocal range sounds excellent at the moment. Bodes well for the new album.
 
Lyrically this song is garbage. The 'Magic Marker' line is indeed pathetic and even more so, totally dated. Bono should have said 'Sharpie'. That's much more modern, and would have changed the complexion of the song to keep the listener totally drawn in. Plus, it would be much harder to wash off, and I'm betting Nelson and Winnie would have never gotten divorced if that were the case. This song is also missing an obvious '..and Winnie needs her man / like an antelope needs a helicopter' line to push it into Achtung-levels of awesome. It's definitely not up to Pride's epic epicness, and there's no reason why it shouldn't be. Both songs are about black guys after all. But *great* black guys! Not at all like that poet guy whose head Bono tripped on, or that bird in an open cage who'd only fly for freedom, but really, couldn't fly without freedom anyhow. Maybe it's just that the guy who got the better song was already dead, and just like how paintings increase in value when the artist dies, maybe if U2 just waited a little longer the Mandela song would have been just as good as the MLK song. That, or independently writing a tribute to the memory of great man is different from writing a song about a great man's love story with his wife for a movie about that man. Either way, I'm completely pissed that U2 were on autopilot for this song. Musically, It just sounds way too generic U2-y. But not nearly as pissed as I am about them writing this unrecognizable abomination of a Coldplay-doing-U2-doing-U2-doing-Coldplay knockoff that sounds nothing like their classic work. It's exactly the opposite of what I was hoping for, and what I was hoping for was something I have never heard before. While I don't know what that sounds like, I'll know it when I don't hear it. This song, I *heard*, and heard too well for it to be something I haven't heard from U2 before. What really irks me about OL is how simple it is. There's no *meat* there. It I can *get* it so quickly, after just one listen, it must be a bland, pale shadow of the more complex, textured, layered, faceted, multi-hued work from their past - and in the invisible future I want from them - that I've listened to a thousand times. It bothers me that even after repeated listens, I still don't get that 'more' I need from a U2 song, that 'something other'. It's a thorn twisting in my side that I find myself humming such a trite offering in the shower without realizing it, never finding that U2 I was looking for in this abomination. Unlike their previous, previous, but no, after that..yes, that work, this song Is just a promise of what could be, without the payoff. I keep listening, but am never fulfilled. If this is what the upcoming album holds, I'll be so disappointed, unless this is a direct sign that the album will be the opposite of what this song is. Whatever that is.
 
Also after reading the last thread on this song

Atlas is not a good track by Coldplay standards.

Ordinary Love sounds very new and fresh compared to this.

I am hoping U2 isn't writing music to win awards, good music will win awards based on its merit.
 
Comparing Pride to OL is ridiculous. Pride is a political song, the lyrics aren't really poetic. Ordinary Love's lyrics are more poetic and full of nature metaphors that I really enjoy simply because I like this sort of poetry. But the messages are totally different, so it makes sense or both songs to have the kind of lyrics that they have. Personally I'm happy with Ordinary Love and think it's a beautiful song and beauty is something I'm looking for in music.
 
All I will say again is if Bono wrote "it's no secret that the stars are falling from the sky" today I would love to see the reaction!!! But because it was in AB it was great
 
I honestly don't see what's so horrible about the "magic marker" line. :huh: Picky much, people?? I also did not mind the "ATM machine" line in Moment of Surrender. Some of you are too difficult to please. Geez! I'm not thrilled about Ordinary Love but I think it's a decent pop song for a film.
 
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