Rental/Roommate Issues

[absintheminded]

I have two good friends.

One had her own one bedroom apartment, clean, neat, nicely furnished.
She recently lost her job and was not able to pay for her rent so she allowed one of her friends to temporarily move in with her, while she was having a financial set back.

"Amber" told "Jessica" that she pays $750 a month total for her apartment, and that she would have to ask Jessica to pay for half. Jessica agreed.
However, Jessica paid $350 for the first month, then went behind Amber's back and found out the rent of the apartment was only $640. She then started only paying $320 a month while Amber was out of town, creating a balance on Amber's account. Amber came back to find out not only was her roommate not paying the full amount she had asked for, Jessica had decided that $320 was the amount due for rent, NOT the $375 they had agreed upon. (The amount monthly was rent PLUS cable/internet/phone).

Amber was very annoyed and had asked Jessica to pay the amount she had asked for. Jessica disagreed.
Amber paid for the cable/internet/phone the whole time (Six months- Jessica did not pay) and all of the furniture-everything was Amber's. Amber had slept on the futon couch the whole time while Jessica had the bedroom all to herself. Not to mention, Jessica was a slob who took every space of the apartment for her unnecessary junk, nor did any cleaning- even after her candles burned "soot" on the apartment walls when she moved out, she did not do ANY cleaning for the full six months she had been living there- that includes leaving her unsanitary 'sanitary' pads in a bathroom garbage bin until it overflowed and Amber had to clean it up- which disgusted her, so she cleaned out the filthy bin and removed it from the bathroom entirely so it would not happen again.

Jessica vacated the apartment, 12 days after she paid her $350 and is now trying to sue Amber for the amount she paid for rent.

IF Amber does not pay her back, Jessica threatens to take Amber to small claims court to have her pay for the "food" that Amber had eaten of Jessica's, plus her portion of the rent.


Who is in the right here?

 

[Liesje]

Neither, really, unless Amber drew up a written and signed sublease agreement that proves Jessica agreed to pay $375, utilities, and food. Based on what's described, neither person legally owes the other person anything worth going to court over. They can't get mad at at each other and then decide after the fact that one actually owes the other money for food or utilities or whatever.

I've been in these situations myself and done many similar case studies in business law. There's not much someone can do if there was never a formal agreement written out and signed by everyone. If the original amount Jessica owed included utilities, she should have been aware of this so at that point she could have refused to pay for someone else's cable/Internet/phone services. We've had people in our house try to do this before, just decide out of the blue that they don't watch TV and will no longer pay, but part of our sublease agreements including EVERYONE paying for one share of ALL utilities regardless of who uses them. After we learned the hard way, we made sure every new subletter was aware of this and agreed to it before moving in.

Jessica's not going to get her "food" money back; I'm not sure why she would sue Amber for something so marginal. And if she was a slob, Amber could have thrown her out at any time.

 

[Bonochick]

It's laughable to think that Jessica would be able to get her rent back. She DID live there...and for crying out loud, she had the bedroom even!

However, Amber should have specified exactly what Jessica's share of money would go towards...it doesn't sound like she told Jessica that she'd also be paying for cable/internet/phone...just rent. If I hadn't been told that and then found out that the rent was less than what Amber told me, I would have been mad and felt like I'd been lied to. However...I would have asked Jessica about it before just deciding on my own to start only paying half of the actual rent. Amber also should have had Jessica sign something. I can understand Jessica wanting to take Amber to court for the rent...but she's not going to have much of a case, if nothing was signed. It will be her word against Amber's, and the judge would probably chalk it up to a very expensive lesson learned. I also think the judge would find the request to be reimbursed for food as ridiculous.

 

[U2Man]

"amber & jessica"

 

[Diemen]

Never, ever agree to a living arrangement involving money without getting it in writing.

 

[U2Man]

Never, ever agree to a living arrangement involving money without getting it in writing.

 

[indra]

Amber has just learned to get it in writing next time. Jessica needs to be told that she got a sweet deal, to stop being a bitch and just drop it. And Amber should make sure the guest gets the futon the next time.

 

[anitram]

This will get laughed out of court.

 

[Party Boy]

Jessica agreed to pay half of the $750. Regardless of what her half goes towards (whether its rent, utilities, phone, internet etc) she had agreed to pay this. End of. Maybe i watch too much Judge Judy but I can't imagine any court finding in Jessica's favour.

It has made me think - I have a tenant renting a room from me in my house. It is all verbal and nothing is in writing. I am currently getting my basement converted and once its finished, I am going to rent it out for about $850-$900 a month. My housemate can't afford to move into the basement and nor do I want to rent her room AND the basement out. So I am going to ask my housemate to leave. However I will let her stay till she has been here for a year and will give her 2 months notice which seems fair.

Verbal agreements can work with people who are reasonable. Unlike Jessica in this case!

 

[BonoIsMyMuse]

This is why good friends often have trouble living together. I don't think "Amber" was unreasonable to ask more than half of the rent, considering the extra was clearly going toward household necessities. Had "Jessica" given her a hard time about it, she easily could've shown how much phone, cable, etc. bills were each month.

If they were really friends, Jessica would realize that Amber is going through a tough time financially and would try to be more understanding. Is a friendship really worth less than $55?

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Jessica should slash Amber's tires and then punch her in the face.

 

[Liesje]

It has made me think - I have a tenant renting a room from me in my house. It is all verbal and nothing is in writing. I am currently getting my basement converted and once its finished, I am going to rent it out for about $850-$900 a month. My housemate can't afford to move into the basement and nor do I want to rent her room AND the basement out. So I am going to ask my housemate to leave. However I will let her stay till she has been here for a year and will give her 2 months notice which seems fair.

Verbal agreements can work with people who are reasonable.

I think that's fair. My previous lease agreements have required me to notify the landlord 30 days before the end of the lease if I was not renewing. This is sort of opposite, but the same principle. Two months is plenty of time to shop around and move out on good terms.


Personally, we've been screwed (or people tried to screw us) multiple times so we always went with a written agreement, but to make it less daunting for the new tenants, basically after they viewed the house and agreed to move in, I would send an e-mail reiterating everything we agreed on and also that they agree to pay their part of ALL utilities regardless of whether they use them, and if they leave for summer/a semester they are still responsible for rent and utilities, etc. and their response OK/yes to this e-mail means they've agreed to our terms. When they respond, I save both e-mails. It's prevented a lot of problems and also keeps everyone on the same page. The new tenants cannot argue that they weren't told what amounts they owe for what utilities, etc. Even a lease agreement doesn't require the person to pay since you usually sign "jointly and severally" meaning if one person up and leaves, they don't HAVE to pay any rent or utilities and everyone else has to cover the difference. Our e-mail agreements are more detailed and hold each person accountable. I'm not sure if they constitute legal contracts, but they've prevented it from getting to the point where I'd have to argue it as such.

 

[Another U2 nut!]

If you're the lease holder, you call the shots. You have to be fair though. It just sounds like this Jessica person thinks she can start acting like she owns the place. Why on earth would she want to take it to court? What's wrong with a world/country where people can't just settle their differences like adults? Run to mummy and daddy instead.

 

[fly so high!]

Who is in the right here?

Amber is in the right............but there is diddly-squat Amber can do to get her utility $$ back, UNLESS Jessica's name is on the lease.....'cause that would be proof that she lived in the apartment, therefore she WOULD be able to take her to small claims.

Feel sorry for you though.......are'nt you gonna be the meat in the sandwich.......your're gonna hear "she did this,she did that"......."but she said this ,but she said that" for the rest of your life!!!

 

[absintheminded]

Yep, I'm caught straight down the mid-diddle.

The only thing though now Amber's mother was present at the time of the agreement of the rental happened. Amber's MOTHER heard Amber tell Jessica that her share would be $375 a month and Jessica agreed. She even paid that amount with a cheque to the rental place!

Jessica has since backed down and shut up with the whole thing.

Thanks for all your input guys. Your intelligence has really shed light on a whole new perspective.

 

[anitram]

Verbal agreements can work with people who are reasonable. Unlike Jessica in this case!

Never, never, never enter verbal agreements. It doesn't matter if the person is reasonable. Sometimes circumstances will push things out of your control. It is really important to protect the lessor and the lessee to have things in writing. It is also important in case you ever need to rely on an insurance claim.

I know that it seems petty and if you're getting along well with somebody, it's nice not to have to sign a contract. But you can have huge problems later without one.

 

[absintheminded]

^ Lesson hard learned for me. I just now got a roommate of mine own, and it was only after she moved in I learned of her bad habits and things that I will not tolerate.

For instance, she's broken a few of my things, but she keeps throwing money at me, like if the floors need cleaning, she'll throw a $20 at me for doing it. Or if the dishes need to be done, she'll throw another $20 at me to do it. And if she's borrowed an item of mine, she throws more money at me, and says she's sorry.
The only thing is, this girl is not really living with me, she only uses my apartment on the weekends so she can spend time with her boyfriend- to watch movies and stuff, because she lives with her mother and does not have that kind of privacy. So basically she's paying $300 for a "flop house". She just informed me that she might not even put in for next month either- just for this month.

But I've still got a guideline for her to sign. I can see this fast-heartedly going into a direction neither one of us planned on.

 

[MrPryck2U]

If they went on Judge Judy, she would tell them to move on and dismiss the case. Neither party would win.

 

[Liesje]

If they went on Judge Judy, she would tell them to move on and dismiss the case. Neither party would win.

Yeah, with no documentation to present, the case would be dismissed and both people would just end up losing more money in filing fees.