"Pop" psychology

[Sherry Darling]

So I use to hate Pop and still don't think it will ever be my favorite but...it's growing on me. The idea, at least, if not the reality. They were obviousl out to shock and push the envelope and I gotta love that, even if I don't enjoy the end result as much.

Anyway, after some interviews and some Flannagan, some Pleba and some listening to the songs...does it seem to anyone else that Bono was going through something really dark during this time? Just seems like he was fighting with something, himself, the world, and was almost looking for the darkness. Happy to go blind.

Just a thought. Would love to hear yours.

Cheryl

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You don't have to be Henry Kissenger to figure out that a more prosperous world is a more secure world; a more educated world is a more tolerant world; and a more healthy world is a more stable world, and I think that would be a fitting memorial to those who lost their lives on Sept. 11th. ~Bono on Leno, Thanksgiving 2001

 

[*Stormy*]

Sherry, the first thing I would like to say is, don't let anyone pressure you into thinking there is something wrong with you if you don't like it. I don't, it has never 'grown' on me, and I get irritated when people can't accept that. I do agree it was coming from a 'dark' place, but that is someplace I don't want to go, and maybe that's what repels me so much about it. I'd love to talk to you in private, please email me at: Stormy@rt.nl. I called the number you posted thinking it was yours and I got the rescue squad LOL, I didn't know!

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~"A little out of touch, little insane, just easier than dealin' with the pain!" ~Soul Asylum, "Runaway Train"

 

[Lilly]

The 'dark place' it comes from is the thing that calls me to this album. There is this sick sense of hope that someone who has been there knows all too well. There is a specific amiguity in Bono's lyrics that I can never get over. Once I think I have a song figured out, it up and changes on me. Which is true with most if not all of U2's stuff, but I really noticed it on POP. Albums that we love have this intangeable something in them that makes us love them. POP, for me, has it and keeps it.

But Sherry, don't feel out of place or anything at all like that if you don't like POP. It doesn't make you a 'lesser fan' and people who say that are full of crap. If it doesn't work for you, then it doesn't.

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"Why do you have to be such a smart ass?" -my mom

 

[*Stormy*]

Originally posted by Lilly:

But don't feel out of place or anything at all like that if you don't like POP. It doesn't make you a 'lesser fan' and people who say that are full of crap. If it doesn't work for you, then it doesn't.

Thank you Lilly! (((HUGS))) I appreciate someone saying that. Thanks for understanding.



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~"A little out of touch, little insane, just easier than dealin' with the pain!" ~Soul Asylum, "Runaway Train"

 

[rafmed]

Bono once said that the idea with Pop was to make an album that were like a party, but, that yes the album is like a party, for 2 songs and then is like a hungover.
Bono and Edge had spent some time having a good time in France before this album, listening to club music, and tryed to reflect that in this album, maybe some guilts came also from that period, who knows, I'm just ranting

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Please...don't make me say please, champagne and ice cream, it's not what I want, it's what I need.

 

[Sherry Darling]

Hey all! Thanks for the responses.

I agree, I don't feel like I "have" to like it (not sure I even intend to try Zooropra...LOL) and generally, compared to JTree and AB and others I don't but songs themselves are great, at least most of them, if you can get past the costums and the Lemon (WTF was that about, boys?), etc. Songs like Please and Wake Up Dead Man and Staring at the Sun and Mofo and Gone...GOOD songs! I mean, tight and edgy lyrically and melodically, and I love the irony of making fun of "Pop" music while making (finally, good) pop music at the same time. And like I was saying, soooo dark! I wonder if he got sick of the fame, sick of himself, teh business, the world. (Our Bono has something of an Atlas complex.

) Makes me hurt for him and be glad ATYCLB came out...it's our boys in a much healthier place, I think.

Stormy, I remember you saying once with Pop Bono took a chainsaw or somthing to a lot fo what you'd loved about him-- the earnestness, the hair, the leather, the boots, the "heart" in the music. You know, I totally agree! But suddenly it's occured to me...that's exactly what he wanted. I don't consider the experiment a total success as a "reinvention" of U2... (esp since they've so successfully striped things back down and become more "them" again)but I gotta say, go on 'em for evolving and experimenting at all. That's rare (*godIloveU2*)

I'm also a sucker for irony.

Too bad they didn't make smarter decisions as far as the timing of the album and the tour...hear they really rushed themselves and went out before they were really ready.

Anyway, appreciate the discussion and would love to hear what anyone else thinks.

Sorry to ramble for this long.

Cheryl

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You don't have to be Henry Kissenger to figure out that a more prosperous world is a more secure world; a more educated world is a more tolerant world; and a more healthy world is a more stable world, and I think that would be a fitting memorial to those who lost their lives on Sept. 11th. ~Bono on Leno, Thanksgiving 2001

 

[Foxxern]

Nothing wrong with not liking something, nothing wrong at all, as long as you've given it an equal opportunity. I do think there was something dark going on at that time, although several of the songs on Pop actually originated during the AB sessions. I think it all culminates in WUDM, which is probably the darkest and saddest song U2 has ever written. Something about Pop seems to be very dark and almost cynical, and I think that for U2, that was actually quite refreshing at the time. But then they emerged from all that to make probably their most optimistic album to date.

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Change is the only constant

 

[mebythesea]

...does it seem to anyone else that Bono was going through something really dark during this time? Just seems like he was fighting with something, himself, the world, and was almost looking for the darkness. Happy to go blind.

I remember sitting at a banquet at a church convention with a priest friend of mine who is a big U2 fan. Pop had just come out, but my reaction to Bono at that point was kind of "Oh my God, I can't watch." You know, when say Aerosmith, or Kid Rock writes about (just to use a shorthand for all this dark stuff --) sin, ok, it's like "SIN ROCKS DUDE!" And there is a certain raw appeal to that. Go for it!

But I feel like when Bono writes about it he just can't help slipping in "and the wages of sin is death." He can't write the wild party without the hangover. There is always that twist. "You get to like the way it feels, so you hurt yourself, you hurt your lover and then you discover what you thought was freedom is just greed." And hearing him go through this was all really painful to me, a JT-era U2 convert who really valued the transparency, the earthy Christian spirituality, the social justice of 80s U2.

So by the late 90s I'd half given up on the band that had

 

[truecoloursfly]

Sherry D,
thanks for posting this! I've thought about this a lot, and written here and elsewhere about my take on POP's Bono, waiting for someone who was there (I was on Planet Beethoven at the time) to corroborate what I've since seen in videos of POPmart -- a man lost, angry, alienated; most of the responses were either, 'POPmart rocked! Bono was cool!' or 'I didn't get it, exactly...' without directly addressing the question you've so succinctly expressed.

I loved the album -- it takes on the darkness in the world much as AB takes on the darkness of love. I wasn't so much concerned about Bono's personal darkness until I saw him onstage. Have you seen POPmart Mexico City? My initial reaction to it is here: http://forum.interference.com/u2feedback/Forum1/HTML/014813.html

I wrote from a slightly different (deeper, maybe) perspective in PLEBA: http://forum.interference.com/u2feedback/Forum7/HTML/002115.html

I've since seen Sao Paolo and Montreal, and although Bono seems stronger, i.e. no longer freshly grieving his friend, Michael Hutchence, it still seems like strength in the anger, in his soul-hunger. The more I watch him, the deeper my curiosity about whatever place he was in then. "Pop" psychology, indeed (nice one).
Looking forward to hearing from more of you.

Deb D

 

[zooropa16]

Originally posted by Foxxern:
Nothing wrong with not liking something, nothing wrong at all, as long as you've given it an equal opportunity.

Exactly! I personally love Pop and Zooropa although a lot of U2 fans and music fans in general don't care for them, which is fine, as long as they gave them an open minded listen. Pop and Zooropa don't jump out at you the way Joshua Tree or ATYCLB do. Pop and Zooropa are heavy and dense albums that IMO have to be "experienced" rather than listened to. I also remember that a lot of people didn't like AB when it came out and it wasn't until it started getting a lot of air play that people came around to it. I get annoyed when someone tells me that those albums sucked (blasphemy!!!!!!

) and when you ask why, they really don't have any reason and the majority of the time they will say, I really have't listened to them!! Pop and Zooropa took quite a few listens before I started grooving, but once I did, I haven't stopped. Here's a good suggestion for listening to them, take the phone of the hook, get rid of any distractions, turn of the lights, find a comfortable spot to lay down, put on a nice pair of headphones, close your eyes and just experience Zooropa and Pop, start to finish. No breaks, just take 2 hours. Feel the music. The sounds and colors... You may see them in a different light. If you still don't like them, then you are a stupid person that is NOT A U2 FAN!!!! (just kidding about that) If you don't like them than OK. No one should think any less of your U2 fandom and/or music sense. Does this make sense to anyone?

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Don't let the bastards grind you down.

Zooropa FTP

[This message has been edited by zooropa16 (edited 04-14-2002).]