New Album Discussion 1 - Songs of..... - Unreasonable guitar album

[PookaMacP]

don't think they even did a single live promotional performance to push the album.

Hmmmm. They did Tiny Desk and appeared on BBC (a very good version of Vertigo), so it was relatively under-stated alright. But it did also come off as the back of Bono's book and tour, so I think the "we're playing it down" might have been a deliberate ploy too.

EDIT: and the whole Letterman film on Netflix, too - not to forget about that. "Let's get every indie musician in Ireland to do backing on Invisible" is a flex.

 

[dan_smee]

Might be a flex but it doesn’t mean they gave it a hard promo push. They didn’t ignore it, but that would have been foolish. A few tv appearances and a niche film about their home isn’t much

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

It's certainly not typical.

Tiny Desk and the Piano Room are not exactly Graham Norton and the Tonight Show.

 

[PookaMacP]

They didn't give it a hard promo push and it wasn't.a typical marketing campaign, but it also constructed a particular narrative of the band with the Bono-Edge writing partnership to the forefront. The under-statedness served a deliberate purpose, in other words.

 

[ascender_RS]

How successful was SOS I wonder? And versus their expectations? How do you measure success of something like that these days when there's no tour. It was very throwaway and as much as they talked-up how much time they took over it, it did seem like a hobby project during lockdown.

I know we're down on them for various reasons, but I still hear Atomic City being played on the radio. If they want to get out of the SOI/SOE over-produced rut, they can still do it and there will be an audience for it. If they embrace the "heritage" thing, looking at bands like The Rolling Stones, just record an album, get it out there and tour focusing on the greatest hits and a few new songs. Simple.

Just don't overthink the album bit.

 

[Irvine511]

They didn't give it a hard promo push and it wasn't.a typical marketing campaign, but it also constructed a particular narrative of the band with the Bono-Edge writing partnership to the forefront. The under-statedness served a deliberate purpose, in other words.

and this is a narrative that i don't think plays to ... not necessarily "their strengths" but to what makes them truly unique. yes, they are good songwriters. yes, Bono and Edge have a connection. no, they are not Lennon/McCartney, nor should they be (even if they want to be).

the magic of U2 is creating a world within a song, and within said world Bono goes on one of his quests for truth, love, god, etc. think Bad, One, Streets, UTEOTW, even COBL. it's the full band effort that casts the spell and let's them do what no one else on their level can do -- the emotional transportation that happens when they are at their best. the Bono/Edge songwriting is a critical component of that, but it isn't the most important thing. they use their musical instruments as tools to world build, which was something i think they were criticized for (Edge only knows 2 chords! the music is too simple! Edge can't play fast!) and, as ever, are responding to.

it also seems as if they as a band are unable to work in a way that lets them build said worlds anymore. and that's life. the magic may well be gone, so the emphasis goes to what you actually can do with hard work: write well-constructed, highly-polished songs. and that's what the SOS project was about. "hey, underneath all that U2-ness, we are actually good songwriters, too." yes, sure. they are! i enjoyed some of SOS. but they are/were much more than that.

there was a passage in "Race of Angels" which I think is the most intellectually rich book written about U2. they were talking about writing "streets" and how Bono wanted to polish the lyrics more, but Edge stopped him, saying, "we don't want it to be smarter, we're going for something higher than smart." (remembering this off the top of my head).

now, it's about being smart. and i think we've lost something.

 

[Registered Dude]

and this is a narrative that i don't think plays to ... not necessarily "their strengths" but to what makes them truly unique. yes, they are good songwriters. yes, Bono and Edge have a connection. no, they are not Lennon/McCartney, nor should they be (even if they want to be).

the magic of U2 is creating a world within a song, and within said world Bono goes on one of his quests for truth, love, god, etc. think Bad, One, Streets, UTEOTW, even COBL. it's the full band effort that casts the spell and let's them do what no one else on their level can do -- the emotional transportation that happens when they are at their best. the Bono/Edge songwriting is a critical component of that, but it isn't the most important thing. they use their musical instruments as tools to world build, which was something i think they were criticized for (Edge only knows 2 chords! the music is too simple! Edge can't play fast!) and, as ever, are responding to.

it also seems as if they as a band are unable to work in a way that lets them build said worlds anymore. and that's life. the magic may well be gone, so the emphasis goes to what you actually can do with hard work: write well-constructed, highly-polished songs. and that's what the SOS project was about. "hey, underneath all that U2-ness, we are actually good songwriters, too." yes, sure. they are! i enjoyed some of SOS. but they are/were much more than that.

there was a passage in "Race of Angels" which I think is the most intellectually rich book written about U2. they were talking about writing "streets" and how Bono wanted to polish the lyrics more, but Edge stopped him, saying, "we don't want it to be smarter, we're going for something higher than smart." (remembering this off the top of my head).

now, it's about being smart. and i think we've lost something.

well said

at times, I think they're content with "Clever" - which is worse than smart, even!

overall, they are greater than the sum of their parts. If they don't have the time, space, capacity, desire, or ability to get together in the interests of making music (which is OK. As you say, "that's life") I think it's unfair to expect the sort of greatness they once produced

 

[DeVaul]

The B-platitudes and overworked “clever” turns of phrase have been the worst part of the songwriting since Bomb, couple that with shite production choices and baby you got a stew goin’

 

[wolbersu2]

They did right by their legacy with U2:UV. More of that, please.

I don't see it that way. As a lot of fans couldn't affort a ticket it's more damaging their image. Nowadays they are seen as a rich band that cares for the rich fans.
Doing the Sphere concerts without Larry is not the best decision regarding their legacy.
Then again releasing a film for only the Sphere feels not great. They could've made a imax/normal movie available to fans, or a live audio-show. They've gone too far with the whole Sphere circus. Though I think it was a great experience for fans and themselves, that' s of course great. Good for them and the fans who could attend the show. For me it's a dull, far away, page in their legacy.

 

[PookaMacP]

and this is a narrative that i don't think plays to ... not necessarily "their strengths" but to what makes them truly unique. yes, they are good songwriters. yes, Bono and Edge have a connection. no, they are not Lennon/McCartney, nor should they be (even if they want to be).

the magic of U2 is creating a world within a song, and within said world Bono goes on one of his quests for truth, love, god, etc. think Bad, One, Streets, UTEOTW, even COBL. it's the full band effort that casts the spell and let's them do what no one else on their level can do -- the emotional transportation that happens when they are at their best. the Bono/Edge songwriting is a critical component of that, but it isn't the most important thing. they use their musical instruments as tools to world build, which was something i think they were criticized for (Edge only knows 2 chords! the music is too simple! Edge can't play fast!) and, as ever, are responding to.

it also seems as if they as a band are unable to work in a way that lets them build said worlds anymore. and that's life. the magic may well be gone, so the emphasis goes to what you actually can do with hard work: write well-constructed, highly-polished songs. and that's what the SOS project was about. "hey, underneath all that U2-ness, we are actually good songwriters, too." yes, sure. they are! i enjoyed some of SOS. but they are/were much more than that.

there was a passage in "Race of Angels" which I think is the most intellectually rich book written about U2. they were talking about writing "streets" and how Bono wanted to polish the lyrics more, but Edge stopped him, saying, "we don't want it to be smarter, we're going for something higher than smart." (remembering this off the top of my head).

now, it's about being smart. and i think we've lost something.

Yes! This is exactly what I was getting at. They are searching for the wrong thing and, in doing so, have drifted quite a bit away from what made them great.

In the same vein as what you quote above, I read the following passage of Bono's book with a mix of dismay (that he dwells on the 'smart') and hope (that he can nonetheless recognise what the song does to people). Lean into the 'invocation' a bit more, please.

'With "Bad" we were after the soulful intensity of Van Morrison and the street poetry of Lou Reed. Unfortunately, the poetry was not so eloquent. Unfortunately, the song was never finished. Unfortunately for the lyricist, Brian Eno loved the sound of unfinished songs.

'Fortunately, for people who think "Bad" is one of our finest moments, Brian had his way. And though I'm left every night filling in the gaps of this most unwritten lyric, I see how it is mouth music, invocation, tongue singing. I see how it transports people.'

[Surrender: 40 songs, one story, p. 183]

 

[DeVaul]

They’re Dumb.

 

[Irvine511]

They’re Dumb.

that sounds like a Bono-ism.

"while trying to reach our highest smarts, we only caught our laziest dumbs."

 

[DeVaul]

“Only by shutting up - by being literally dumb - could I stop writing dumb. Of course Larry has been telling me this for years, but it often can be difficult to hear his snarls over his snares.”

 

[BEAL]

that sounds like a Bono-ism.

"while trying to reach our highest smarts, we only caught our laziest dumbs."

Sounds like something Tedder watered down

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

i know the lyrics are dumb. but you don't have to be.

 

[mikal]

Speaking of 13, after revisiting this album a few days ago, it's funny because the 5 more chill songs are probably my favorite:

Love Is All We Have Left
Summer Of Love (yeah I know Edge didn't even write his guitar part)
The Little Things That Give You Away
Landlady
13 (There Is A Light)

All of those songs have room to breathe and aren't trying to squeeze too many sounds in at once.

 

[DaveC]

I really hope we get the full story someday as to why they've treated Little Things That Give You Away like it's a terrible outtake from the Popmart era. It's the best song they've made since ATYCLB (imo) but it's like they wanted to sweep it under the rug as soon as the album came out for some baffling reason.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I really hope we get the full story someday as to why they've treated Little Things That Give You Away like it's a terrible outtake from the Popmart era. It's the best song they've made since ATYCLB (imo) but it's like they wanted to sweep it under the rug as soon as the album came out for some baffling reason.

can they really be that finicky that they canned it after a crowd of people on the JT30 tour didn't go nuts about it because, well, they had never heard it before?

 

[mikal]

So...as a musician, I do understand the mental trauma that can happen when the audience doesn't respond to a song you are really excited to share. But where you have to be strong is your awareness. Like Headache said, did they really think the crowd was going to roar like they would during the beginning synths of "Bad"?

 

[DeVaul]

The crowd really responded to Song for Someone, slow Best Thing, GOOYOW and American Soul night after night…

 

[Irvine511]

I really hope we get the full story someday as to why they've treated Little Things That Give You Away like it's a terrible outtake from the Popmart era. It's the best song they've made since ATYCLB (imo) but it's like they wanted to sweep it under the rug as soon as the album came out for some baffling reason.

it's like, again, they are fully misunderstanding their appeal and what makes them stand out.

what the people want from U2 are the songs that you sing along with alone in your car, tear running down your cheek as the chorus builds to a Bono wail -- ie, "with the demons you drown" "when all you got is hurt" "don't you look back" "it's a long way down to nothing at all" -- and that's what Little Things actually gives you, and some super-emotional performance of that song on Fallon or whatever would have reminded people of what is great about U2, those emotions they can access that no one else can.

instead, we get American Soul.

edit: i guess they did perform it on Kimmel, and it comes across really well! more of that.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

they're always trying to run away from edge's chimey guitars and bono tugging on heartstrings... but, like, that's U2. be U2. don't be old guy One Republic.

 

[DeVaul]

Free yourself to be yourself if only you could see yourself as legends who don’t need to try to be popular because you already are so lean into your strengths and enjoy the adoration of your global fanbase you fucking dummies… if only you could see

 

[pacemaker]

I’ve said it before but more than ever, now would be a great time for them to work with Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross.

I remember seeing a photo in a magazine of Trent at the opening night of Popmart and my 13 year old mind was blown that my favorite band was a fan of my other favorite band.

If they must branch out, I’d rather they do it with their contemporaries.

 

[MattD]

The crowd really responded to Song for Someone, slow Best Thing, GOOYOW and American Soul night after night…

The fact they regurgitated GOOYOW and Song For Someone for Songs of Surrender tragically suggests they think such deep fried shit are modern classics.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Honestly? Now would be a great time to make nicey nice with Brian Eno and Daniel Lanois and just lean in to bring U2.

Every time Edge says "we can't use that riff because it sounds too much like our old stuff," someone steals one of his beanies.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

obviously take the above with a huge grain of salt - but this guy's been dead on balls accurate in the past, apparently. and he's pretty confident.

so, man, i dunno. 2025 it is?

 

[Joey788]

Honestly? Now would be a great time to make nicey nice with Brian Eno and Daniel Lanois and just lean in to bring U2.

Every time Edge says "we can't use that riff because it sounds too much like our old stuff," someone steals one of his beanies.

I've thought for a long time that Nigel Godrich would be a good match with them for this stage of their career. He did great work with helping Paul McCartney craft a late-era gem. He also feels like he wouldn't let U2 get away with any subpar material - he doesn't seem afraid to tell a band their work is bad and they should redo it. It'd be a similar Eno/Lanois vibe while working with someone new.