New Album Discussion 1 - Songs of..... - Unreasonable guitar album

[DancingBrft]

I would like to see him get back to writing in a less literal fashion. He's always been a bit of the platitude and slogans, though I do perceive to be more cringe as of late.

For the actual music, I know this came up before....Atomic City beginning really comes off as a Miracle rip off. The generic riff / guitar line is what does it for me, and a bit of the drums. The song does get better with more bounce and some of the "Clash" style guitar.....I'm not that bothered by the Blondie reference, instead it falls back into the generic guitar sound Edge has fallen in love with. I suppose it's always been there, but he's using less effects now to cover the blandness.

For whatever they're working on right now, I say Edge please break out the effects. I don't even care if it's just the delay haha, but bring something unique back to your playing. While I love all of the band and what they bring, it was always The Edge that had me the most intrigued when new music was coming out. What weird sounds was he going to come up with? What interesting solo to break the song apart?

I do think they're too old to have a rock song like the Fly, or even something like ABOY 2 (that's my fav version). I say lean into IYWTVD or Blue Room.....slower, darker, moodier.

Fine if there's some rock songs, but again throw a shit ton of effects!

I’ve never seen another artist that I’m aware of, besides U2, almost completely forget what makes them or made them great, and for 20-25 years, try to force square pegs into round holes. Edge becoming a generic rock guitar player 2000-present (with some great exceptions of course), the whole “we have to write songs like the Beatles” thing, the slick, overcooked but under creative output. The lack of self awareness baffles me. Where is the objectivity of “you know what, these aren’t our strengths, we tried it and it’s not our best work?” They seem
to have either completely forgotten what made them great, or realized that it’s too much work to be great and there are “yes” people all around them telling them that “The Miracle” ( pick your 2000’s song) is just as good as JT or AB.

 

[dan_smee]

Edit: I forgot that the finished version of 40 Foot Man was in the end credits of the ASOH doc. I just remembered the short scene where Bono and Edge played Letterman an acoustic snippet.

Did 40 Foot Man get a full playthrough in the Letterman U2 documentary? I can’t remember. I might have to see if it’s on Disney + still.

Gimmie an hour or so and I’ll send you an mp3 of it

 

[Joey788]

Looks like U2 has returned the favor to HAIM by letting them basically lift the percussion and guitar of "Numb" on their new album.

 

[dan_smee]

Link isn’t working for me - which song are you referring to?

 

[namkcuR]

Re: Atomic City

To me, I have no strong feelings about it. Between the Clash riffage and the Blondie quote, it feels like a well-executed love letter to punk and post-punk scene they came out of all those decades ago. I don't mind listening to it all, it's just fine, but I can't say that I'd pro-actively put it on very often.

That said - and it's a low bar - but I certainly take it over American Soul or The Blackout, which are two of my least favorite U2 songs ever. So at least it's an improvement on those, as far as rock songs go.

I really love the guitar and bass work on Atomic City. That's another reason to be optimistic. I know the mix could have been a bit rougher, but I (still) think it's their best "single" in YEARS.

Eh, I'd say Every Breaking Wave(slow version) and Invisible blow it out of the water pretty easily, as recent-ish singles go. I might even take Best Thing or maybe even The Miracle(though I've never disliked the song like a lot of you do).

"Dad Rock" is not the term. After all, they're dads and granddads. They're the music that many dads listen to. But that's not the problem, nor is "dad rock" a good descriptor for what I think everyone's trying to say. After all, U2, The Red Hot Chili Peppers, The National, Bruce Springsteen, The Foo Fighters, and Metallica are all considered 'dad rock' and they all have different sounds and come from different eras.

Atomic City is just kind of toothless. It exists in the sort of 3 minute jangly pop song territory that some fans - myself included - dislike. It's even hard to describe why I don't like it - similar to The Miracle (of Joey Ramone). It's just...lifeless. It's got a melody and lyrics and a structure, but none of them are particularly pleasing to my ear. It's more annoying than anything.

Just wanted to say, I was surprised to see The National in that list. I barely think of them as rock, much less "dad rock". They're also a lot younger than the other artists you've mentioned.

See, I can disagree with most of this but at least respect that there's some thought behind your mindset, as opposed to just labeling things with silly catchphrases like "dad rock."

I get your complaint about the Blondie connection - but I feel this one was more a case of "hey that one part in the chorus sounds like Blondie, we should give a credit," vs the other two examples, which were "hey, let's build a song around someone else's riff." Big difference in my eyes.

I like that Edge's guitar is prominent in the song. That's been a big miss for a while. I also like how it's a come-all-ye to the fans. It also has a bit of an old school swing to it, specifically around the bridge, that I like - and is unlike anything U2 has done before.

And hey, I like that it's Vegasy. Down to the last lines... I got the keys to the cages, ready for bright lights. Could be seen as keys to cages as being free (as he says repeatedly), but cages are also a rather large thing in Vegas - as it's where the money's kept. Always found that line to be clever.

It's not ranking in their top 10 anytime soon, but it's a solid addition to the catalogue in my opinion.

Like I said, I'm happy to call it an homage to Blondie and not obsess over it too much. I think maybe it'd bother me a bit more of this were a track on an album.

I think they're terrified of losing American AOR audiences

I also wish he's use his lower register vocals again. It just feels more mature than the soundtrack of a mid life crisis which is U2 in 'rawk' mode.

While I agree that they've been much too focused on "hits" for years, particularly in America, I have some hope that maybe they're starting to change their tune. I recall Bono saying something, maybe back when he was touring in support of his book, about not wanting to be the old guy at the party or something, and that the band wouldn't necessarily try so hard to be relevant any more going forward. It's Bono though, so take it as you will.

I 100% agree about his lower register. It's one of the reasons I like Iris, because of the lower register in the verses.

For the actual music, I know this came up before....Atomic City beginning really comes off as a Miracle rip off.

I don't really hear that.

 

[namkcuR]

So what does a "rock" album from a band like U2 sound like given their back catalogue... their age... where we are in music etc.

If you look at AB, as we all know, the moods on that album and Edge's playing in particular were influenced by a lot of personal stuff going on in their lives and the band dynamics. There's some fantastic guitar lines, solos etc and they're front and central in the songs. The majority all have some incredible "rocking" solos.

Since then? There's been moments on other albums, but is there anything as raw and rocking as The Fly, let along Acrobat, Until the End of the World, Love is Blindness.

What have they said are what they'd consider rock songs? All Because of You? Does Vertigo count? Stand Up Comedy? Little Things reminds me of some of those AB songs where there's a great solo and guitar work in what is just a great song.

Interesting question.

Besides the ones you mentioned, I'd say, since 2000...Elevation, New York, LAPOE, NLOTH(title track), Raised By Wolves, Cedarwood Road, Volcano, Red Flag Day, American Soul, The Blackout.

And I'd say I enjoy all of those except for the last two. Ok, and I'm not wild about Red Flag Day.

But yeah, Elevation is great pop-rock number, even if it is not deep lyrically. It just works.

LAPOE is polarizing but I've always dug it.

NLOTH, RBW, Cedarwood are legitimately great IMO.

Also, since you asked "since then", then being AB, I'd have to include all those rockers from Pop - Discotheque, Mofo, LNOE, Gone, Miami(live versions anyway), and Please. But I know that's not really what you were asking.

 

[namkcuR]

It is interesting in that the band have actually released a few songs outside of the "traditional" vein of guitar/bass/drums, or the usual chord progressions... like, say, Book of Your Heart or Sleep Like a Baby Tonight. But somehow, everything's focused on just one or two songs or a single with a prominent guitar on them (the horror! /s).

Granted, the singles might be more in a vein of something else... but pretending that any fanbase just wants to hear 10 or 12 tracks in the same exact vein seems somewhat of a stretch to me anyway. They can be more than one thing at once.

Thank you for saying this. There are probably 4-5 great songs like that per album/album sessions like the ones you mentioned:

NLOTH - Moment Of Surrender, Fez-Being Born, White As Snow, Cedars Of Lebanon, Winter
SOI - Sleep Like A Baby, Reach, The Troubles, Crystal Ballroom, Invisible, EBW(slow version), Iris
SOE - Love Is All We Have Left, Book Of Your Heart, Landlady, Little Things

At this point, if they are still putting out new albums that five songs I find interesting and that I actively want to come back to, I'll take it as a win. It's not just American Soul and Get On Your Boots and The Miracle.

And in the case of SOI, it's more than that. I think it's a genuinely strong album that got screwed by the iPhone stuff.

I do think they're too old to have a rock song like the Fly, or even something like ABOY 2 (that's my fav version). I say lean into IYWTVD or Blue Room.....slower, darker, moodier.

Again, I agree. I'd love it if they leaned into those types of quieter songs.

if they try to sound hip and cool with the kids? they're pandering.

if they act their age? dad rock dinosaur act.

can't win.

Well, to be fair, I'd guess that the people making those criticisms don't distinguish between "pandering" and "dad rock". I'd guess that in that context, "act their age" is more akin to less rock and more Ground Beneath Her Feet, Stateless, Kite, Sometimes You Can't Make It, A Man And A Woman, Mercy, Moment Of Surrender, Fez-Being Born, Every Breaking Wave(slow), Sleep Like A Baby, The Troubles, Little Things, etc etc.

 

[namkcuR]

I was thinking about this in the middle of the night, while trying to fall back asleep last night and the horror hit me. Bono can talk all he wants to about feeling a room and avoiding keeping things too tight on the next album, but you don't spend 7.5+ years to create something "loose".

Well, that assumes they've been spending the entire 7.5 years working on a new album, which I don't think is the case, between E+I Tour, JT19 tour, Bono's book, Surrender tour, Songs Of Surrender album, Sphere, promoting this new Surrender film, etc.

 

[namkcuR]

Looks like U2 has returned the favor to HAIM by letting them basically lift the percussion and guitar of "Numb" on their new album.

Wow, that's like a direct sample. I hope they are given credit.

 

[namkcuR]

Agree to disagree on NLOTH. I think it's their worst album by a lot.

Eh, its high points are damn good and its low points aren't as low as American Soul/Get Out Of Your Own Way/Blackout imo, so there's that.

 

[Fly-2000]

Link isn’t working for me - which song are you referring to?

Found one on TikTok:

TikTok - Make Your Day

 

[mikal]

Eh, its high points are damn good and its low points aren't as low as American Soul/Get Out Of Your Own Way/Blackout imo, so there's that.

I'd argue that Crazy Tonight and SUC are the worst songs they've ever released. Much worse than the ones you mentioned.

 

[dan_smee]

I think SUC, Crazy Tonight and American Soul (and maybe the Refugee?) are the ones universally thought of as not worthy of the legacy, right? Everything else has pockets of fans, or suffers the arguably worse outcome of being bland (YSSML comes to mind - it’s not BAD, it’s just not anything).

 

[PookaMacP]

Just wanted to say, I was surprised to see The National in that list. I barely think of them as rock, much less "dad rock". They're also a lot younger than the other artists you've mentioned.

I don't see the National as 'dad rock' either, although hey've been clever enough to embrace the 'sad dads' label that's thrown at them as their own.



PS - they are a lot closer in age to U2 than you might think. Matt Berninger is in his mid-50s, I think.

 

[namkcuR]

I'd argue that Crazy Tonight and SUC are the worst songs they've ever released. Much worse than the ones you mentioned.

Different strokes for different folks, but I simply don't agree.

I think SUC, Crazy Tonight and American Soul (and maybe the Refugee?) are the ones universally thought of as not worthy of the legacy, right? Everything else has pockets of fans, or suffers the arguably worse outcome of being bland (YSSML comes to mind - it’s not BAD, it’s just not anything).

FWIW, I always dug The Refugee. Young Bono's vocals are so aggressive and impassioned. It at least comes across as organic and genuine and raw. I don't skip it. But I'm in the minority in that, I think, so you're not wrong.

Also, while I'd rarely put on the album cut of Crazy Tonight, I don't mind the 360 version at all.

 

[Irvine511]

I don't see the National as 'dad rock' either, although hey've been clever enough to embrace the 'sad dads' label that's thrown at them as their own.

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PS - they are a lot closer in age to U2 than you might think. Matt Berninger is in his mid-50s, I think.

I recently saw The National along with The War on Drugs. The audience was mostly Dads, I assume many of them also sad, and many dressed like creative directors in their 50s worried about being replaced by a younger version.

War on Drugs was better. The National's best moment was an Echo & The Bunnymen cover.

 

[super fly guy]

Re: Winter and Viva la Vida: if it hasn’t already been mentioned, technically they both copied each other. Brian Eno was producing for both at the same time and he gave each band the same opening chord sequence and challenged them both to come up with a song based on it.

Well,coldplay won.

 

[vaz020202]

Well,coldplay won.

If memory serves, not done a wiki, Violet Hill was launched first and it didn’t resonate and Viva came out and the rest is history. Unfortunately, that was the high watermark of their creativity.

 

[MattD]

I understand their need to want to play these songs live, Bono is a performer who gets his kicks from a large crowd but an emphasis on that shouldn't negate their studio efforts. It certainly didn't impact their most sonically ambitious period in the 90s.

The poster above who mentioned The Edge straying from his signature sound got it spot on. Why deviate from that unique textural sound for something so generic? This is perhaps the most puzzling aspect of modern day U2, turning your band into 'just another bland MOR act'. If it ain't the guitar, its Adele style snooze fest piano based wallpaper.

When all is said and done and we are all dead and buried, it is the recordings that survive for posterity. Not the live performances, not the idea of relevance, not the grandstanding, but the music. The Beatles legacy continues primarily because of this emphasis, so I wish more acts would do similarly and push the boundaries of what the recording studio can do. While the money isn't in studio recordings anymore, particularly for young artists, U2 nonetheless have the luxury to still be able to attempt this. David Bowie did so at the end of his career and Radiohead continue to do so as just similarly established acts.

So do something that exists primarily for the art of recording itself, something that can exist for posterity's sake. Chasing relevance ain't gonna do it, playing over-expensive technological wonders to a very select audience in Las Vegas ain't gonna do it, shoe-horning yourself into a desperate need to be accepted by youngsters and America (did you know it's an 'idea'?) ain't gonna do it.

 

[MattD]

I 100% agree about his lower register. It's one of the reasons I like Iris, because of the lower register in the verses.

Yeah so many promising points in that song but ultimately destroyed by Tedder. I like his vocal delivery in the verses of Iris, but the song would be stronger if they had kept the original version (minus the EDM nonsense, as featured in Stars Don't Go) combined with the introspective verse delivery of the final version. Instead, the chorus's 'Hold me close' Adele style crap is a mood killer turning it into a naff OneRepublic song.

The original version, while not exactly Lemon level quality, does sound authentically U2.

 

[BEAL]

I think it speaks to the uniqueness and oddness that made U2 great is that as they all became better at their craft, the music didn’t improve.

They couldn’t play their instruments well (compared to other bands). It was the spirit of punk without the rapid fire chords….it was something else

Now when I read that Edge really wants to figure out if the song works on an acoustic guitar or piano I already know it’s doomed. It doesn’t mean the song is “bad”, it means it will be without the essence that made the band so special.

As others have said, even in their biggest moments of career, the songs all follow a basic melody / formula / key progression…..what really stood out was the Edge and the others playing off of it.

WOWY….a literal uniquely built guitar. A driving bass line and drums that slowly build up to the climax of Bonoism Ooohhhhh ohhhhhhhh

Now, we get the oh ohs but it’s so tightly packaged and structured….there really isn’t much of an impact.

Said before, I’d be perfectly fine if they dropped the chase for THE SONG, and settle into an atmospheric landscape….Eno is perfect for that.

If THE SONG pops up organically from those sessions, great. If not, it’s ok!!

I don’t feel the world is wanting a new U2 tour or even album, but it would be a nice gift if we got one

 

[MattD]

I think it speaks to the uniqueness and oddness that made U2 great is that as they all became better at their craft, the music didn’t improve.

They couldn’t play their instruments well (compared to other bands). It was the spirit of punk without the rapid fire chords….it was something else

Now when I read that Edge really wants to figure out if the song works on an acoustic guitar or piano I already know it’s doomed. It doesn’t mean the song is “bad”, it means it will be without the essence that made the band so special.

As others have said, even in their biggest moments of career, the songs all follow a basic melody / formula / key progression…..what really stood out was the Edge and the others playing off of it.

WOWY….a literal uniquely built guitar. A driving bass line and drums that slowly build up to the climax of Bonoism Ooohhhhh ohhhhhhhh

Now, we get the oh ohs but it’s so tightly packaged and structured….there really isn’t much of an impact.

Said before, I’d be perfectly fine if they dropped the chase for THE SONG, and settle into an atmospheric landscape….Eno is perfect for that.

If THE SONG pops up organically from those sessions, great. If not, it’s ok!!

I don’t feel the world is wanting a new U2 tour or even album, but it would be a nice gift if we got one

Yes I very much agree. U2 songs that went for the ecstatic always used the 'wooahs' as a catharsis, rather understated songs that were brinming with tension both vocally and musically that exploded into euphoria. The big vocal and sonic gestures were tastefully done, employed selectively.

Nowadays, they still employ 'woahs' and go for big guitar lines but replicate a cheap and tacky Coldplay trick to entice stadium chants.

 

[Rich79]

Well, that assumes they've been spending the entire 7.5 years working on a new album, which I don't think is the case, between E+I Tour, JT19 tour, Bono's book, Surrender tour, Songs Of Surrender album, Sphere, promoting this new Surrender film, etc.

I almost added a bit of a caveat along these lines. I don't really think they've focused all those years on new material, of course, but I also know it goes back quite a ways to when they at least started putting pen-to-paper. Yes, there were talks like they had restarted the process at least once along the way, but I think it still stands to reason these are not musicians crafting an album "off-the-cuff". I certainly don't want a U2 improv/jam album (well, for the most part; thought that would make a cool fan gift) but something in-between is good.

Most of us seem to be in agreeance the music needs more breathing space, the vocals don't need to be soaring/anthemic/arena-chants 100% of the time, and the lyrics just need to let the audience back in rather than pigeon-holing into more specific/personal territory.

 

[super fly guy]

I think SUC, Crazy Tonight and American Soul (and maybe the Refugee?) are the ones universally thought of as not worthy of the legacy, right? Everything else has pockets of fans, or suffers the arguably worse outcome of being bland (YSSML comes to mind - it’s not BAD, it’s just not anything).

I like the Refugee.

 

[PookaMacP]

I recently saw The National along with The War on Drugs. The audience was mostly Dads, I assume many of them also sad, and many dressed like creative directors in their 50s worried about being replaced by a younger version.

War on Drugs was better. The National's best moment was an Echo & The Bunnymen cover.

I saw the National just after Boxer came out and I think about three times since. But then things began to sound a bit samey and I've kinda lost touch. Ironically enough, given the subject of our debate here, I think the best National-adjacent song of recent years is Taylor Swift's Last Great American Dynasty. I always imagine Matt Berninger singing that one.

 

[PookaMacP]

Re the issue of whether they've still "got it" as songwriters, I think the problem is that they've lost a bit of confidence since 2009 and started to throw the kitchen sink at their songs. This manifests in a couple of ways: first, the sheer number of tracks released, including bonus tracks and so many remixes; and, second, the huge number of people involved in producing and adding additional production to the records. At some point, that many voices must create paralysis.

Having said all that, my method for listening to material from the 2013-2017 period is via a "Songs of Innocence & Experience" playlist that I think holds up really well - and has plenty of interesting sounds and songs on it. It's just a pity there's so much mediocre material surrounding the good; it distracts from the quality.

Anyway, here's my alternative 2013-2017 single album:
1: Invisible ((RED) Edit)
2: Ordinary Love (Original Mix)
3: Every Breaking Wave (Radio Mix)
4: The Crystal Ballroom
5: Book Of Your Heart
6: The Troubles
7: Lights Of Home (St Peter's String Version)
8: Sleep Like A Baby Tonight
9: The Little Things That Give You Away
10: 13 (There is A Light)

 

[Registered Dude]

hypothetical situation that may not be too far removed from the present truth:

U2 have 10-12 solid songs that they could get over the finish line if they devoted 8-12 weeks.

Problem is they're from very different recording sessions, and sonically are all rather different from one another.

let's say..
- 2-3 tunes from Sphere days (recording session that yielded Glorify)
- 3-4 folky or electronic tunes from recent Lee/Eno sessions
- another couple rock tunes from some other sessions (Tedder/Lillywhite)

Assume they're all good songs that most of us nutjobs will love. So we're not comparing Eno to Lillywhite, or anything like that.

Would you rather:
- they get them to finish line and release 2-3 distinct EPs over this year and next
- they pick one sonic focus, and pursue a 10-ish track album, dropping stuff not tied to that sound, and taking the time to write new songs to round out the album. Album comes out late 2026 or 2027.

 

[mikal]

hypothetical situation that may not be too far removed from the present truth:

U2 have 10-12 solid songs that they could get over the finish line if they devoted 8-12 weeks.

Problem is they're from very different recording sessions, and sonically are all rather different from one another.

let's say..
- 2-3 tunes from Sphere days (recording session that yielded Glorify)
- 3-4 folky or electronic tunes from recent Lee/Eno sessions
- another couple rock tunes from some other sessions (Tedder/Lillywhite)

Assume they're all good songs that most of us nutjobs will love. So we're not comparing Eno to Lillywhite, or anything like that.

Would you rather:
- they get them to finish line and release 2-3 distinct EPs over this year and next
- they pick one sonic focus, and pursue a 10-ish track album, dropping stuff not tied to that sound, and taking the time to write new songs to round out the album. Album comes out late 2026 or 2027.

Because I don't think they're capable of the 2nd one, even with Eno yelling at them, I'd go for the EP's.

 

[dan_smee]

The first one is an interesting thought. My feeling is that the second option is actually what they’ve done since 2006 and the sheer volume of material they’ve shelved in that time presents a really interesting “what if” alternate timeline.

So option 1. Get stuff out there. They are getting very old very fast.

 

[JamietheEdgefan]

hypothetical situation that may not be too far removed from the present truth:

U2 have 10-12 solid songs that they could get over the finish line if they devoted 8-12 weeks.

Problem is they're from very different recording sessions, and sonically are all rather different from one another.

let's say..
- 2-3 tunes from Sphere days (recording session that yielded Glorify)
- 3-4 folky or electronic tunes from recent Lee/Eno sessions
- another couple rock tunes from some other sessions (Tedder/Lillywhite)

Assume they're all good songs that most of us nutjobs will love. So we're not comparing Eno to Lillywhite, or anything like that.

Would you rather:
- they get them to finish line and release 2-3 distinct EPs over this year and next
- they pick one sonic focus, and pursue a 10-ish track album, dropping stuff not tied to that sound, and taking the time to write new songs to round out the album. Album comes out late 2026 or 2027.

Good question!

Assuming they were all genuinely good songs, I’d rather they all get them all out asap, even as separate EPs; it could also actually be quite fun to have an exploration of different sounds, especially considering it’s been so long since the last album. So option 1 in that scenario.

However, I’ve realised lately that I’m just not really going back to listen to the last few albums, and it’s largely because I’ve felt their stylistic and production choices haven’t brought out what I feel makes the band so special. I have a feeling that any new material with Lillywhite/Jacknife Lee, or leftover from Tedder sessions that emphasises a ‘rock’/ ‘four guys in a room’ sound or songwriting philosophy will be more of that.

Whereas I think work with Eno would get closest to what I consider to be U2 at their best, creating work that really captures magic and sets them apart from other artists. And if anyone could convince them to get away from the ‘songwriting’ approach of the Songs of era, and turn once again to sonic exploration and the mad alchemy that comes from deliberately not knowing entirely what they’re doing, it would be Eno. Plus, I really love the idea of them exploring Irish folk, combined with an Eno-led direction.

So really, I think in the long run, I’d rather they drop other work and pursue an album fully dedicated to Eno-produced songs, even if it took a year or so longer. We’ve already waited 8 years, one more isn’t much. And I don’t see them breaking out of the 5-year album/tour cycle, which, combined with their age and health issues, means I think this is likely the last, or penultimate album. So I’d rather it be one fully devoted to work with Eno, rather than largely filled with material I suspect I wouldn’t connect with.