New Album Discussion 1 - Songs of..... - Unreasonable guitar album

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I'm holding out until the end of Interference.

it'll be you, me, and bluer white occasionally popping in to tell us we're too liberal.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Imagine telling 2004 interference that the band will outlast almost every active poster

it was nice when the Sphere shows were first announced as this place showed a bit of life again - but ultimately, in the year 2025, yea - why come here when you can just go to reddit or the cesspool that is facebook groups

 

[ascender_RS]

I guess given their age it's easier to work backwards with how things are going to pan out which also makes me think there will be a final " (a) celebration" tour and boxset? A proper world tour, perhaps then with a run at the Sphere to round things off?

Which like you say @Headache in a Suitcase, doesn't leave much time for other albums and tours given how they work.

 

[trevgreg]

Too much time is what leads to them reconsidering and second guessing. They’ve probably written, semi recorded and rethought this one album 4 times since 2019

Dull songwriter viewpoint coming...

This is basically par for the course when it comes to writing an album. You're going to re-write things, come up with new stuff and throw old stuff out more often than not. I know the term "tinkering" gets thrown around here like it's a bad thing. But you're very rarely going to come up with something that remains this pristine artifact that will exist untouched a day or two after coming up with it. If that were the case, Until the End of the World would be some predecessor version of I Feel Free, Numb would be a worse Down on the Days, Native Son and Vertigo, Always and Beautiful Day... well, you get the drift! And even those versions were in all likelihood polished up a bit later on, a la the Reassemble material or the Achtung "baby" demos from 2011.

I wouldn't doubt Edge has come up with hundreds of ideas since 2020 (minus even the SOS material). Any mere competent songwriter can sit down on a computer and churn out a decent sounding instrumental within minutes or an hour. And if you're in a position to hire an engineer every so often to help flesh out everything, those ideas can turn into listenable instrumentals very quickly. But if Bono can't write a decent lyric or melody for the life of him over one of those tracks, no matter how good it sounds (and is the common thing songwriters face, even the "professional" ones), then those great sounding instrumentals get cast aside. And you start from scratch on new ideas - or attack the older ones that had potential once you've had some time away from it. Hence the "tinkering" or whatever else. You come up with new ideas to top the "mid" ones you came up with over a year or two, or you try your hand on making the arrangement or lyric a bit better than what you had. Intentions or commercial aspects might vary on the person, but working on songs until they're releasable is just part of the process.

For me, all the interviews just tell me they have a lot of ideas (instrumentals, half-finished ones with Bono toplining over parts, "complete" sounding demos, etc.), but just don't have 15-20 "finished" ones that they're very happy with yet. Or at least ones that stand up after a certain amount of time. Yeah, it's frustrating as a fan, and I suppose some of it does have to do with the freedom they have now. 60-year-olds with adult children and other things, along with a flexible record deal, is a bit different from whatever deadlines they're facing as 20-year-old kids, without much to do other than write songs and hang out. But it does sound like they're working on it and want to have something out before a tour next year, so I'll hold onto that hope until they say whatever again. Or like Headache, wonder why they can't at least tour as the years aren't getting any longer!

 

[mikal]

Dull songwriter viewpoint coming...

This is basically par for the course when it comes to writing an album. You're going to re-write things, come up with new stuff and throw old stuff out more often than not. I know the term "tinkering" gets thrown around here like it's a bad thing. But you're very rarely going to come up with something that remains this pristine artifact that will exist untouched a day or two after coming up with it. If that were the case, Until the End of the World would be some predecessor version of I Feel Free, Numb would be a worse Down on the Days, Native Son and Vertigo, Always and Beautiful Day... well, you get the drift! And even those versions were in all likelihood polished up a bit later on, a la the Reassemble material or the Achtung "baby" demos from 2011.

I wouldn't doubt Edge has come up with hundreds of ideas since 2020 (minus even the SOS material). Any mere competent songwriter can sit down on a computer and churn out a decent sounding instrumental within minutes or an hour. And if you're in a position to hire an engineer every so often to help flesh out everything, those ideas can turn into listenable instrumentals very quickly. But if Bono can't write a decent lyric or melody for the life of him over one of those tracks, no matter how good it sounds (and is the common thing songwriters face, even the "professional" ones), then those great sounding instrumentals get cast aside. And you start from scratch on new ideas - or attack the older ones that had potential once you've had some time away from it. Hence the "tinkering" or whatever else. You come up with new ideas to top the "mid" ones you came up with over a year or two, or you try your hand on making the arrangement or lyric a bit better than what you had. Intentions or commercial aspects might vary on the person, but working on songs until they're releasable is just part of the process.

For me, all the interviews just tell me they have a lot of ideas (instrumentals, half-finished ones with Bono toplining over parts, "complete" sounding demos, etc.), but just don't have 15-20 "finished" ones that they're very happy with yet. Or at least ones that stand up after a certain amount of time. Yeah, it's frustrating as a fan, and I suppose some of it does have to do with the freedom they have now. 60-year-olds with adult children and other things, along with a flexible record deal, is a bit different from whatever deadlines they're facing as 20-year-old kids, without much to do other than write songs and hang out. But it does sound like they're working on it and want to have something out before a tour next year, so I'll hold onto that hope until they say whatever again. Or like Headache, wonder why they can't at least tour as the years aren't getting any longer!

100% accurate.

In fact, I came up with a chorus the other day when singing about the salad I was making with dinner. It was definitely an "idea" but it'll never go from kitchen counter to studio/stage. But the melody might someday.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I can't break this spell I'm under
While I cut this big cucumber

 

[PookaMacP]

To add to @trevgreg's post - as someone who has completed significant creative projects (not music, but the processes are similar) on my own and with others - the dynamics change dramatically once they come into conversation with others.

So, once Edge's ideas are worked up with the rest of the group, they *will* change. And, as far as I can tell from at least the first 25 years of U2's career, this is mainly for the better.

 

[lazarus]

We interrupt the "new album" discussion with this disturbing news:



Definitely not a real country.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

that's it - i'm contacting their prime ministah

 

[TinKnight]

I am very excited to buy and return an Apple Vision Pro for the Bono thingie.

 

[Hewson]

We interrupt the "new album" discussion with this disturbing news:



Definitely not a real country.

 

[super fly guy]

At least if they call it a day in 2030 the vaults will be flung open,right?

 

[mikal]

I am very excited to buy and return an Apple Vision Pro for the Bono thingie.

Now that's an Apple Intelligent thing to do.

 

[dan_smee]

We interrupt the "new album" discussion with this disturbing news:



Definitely not a real country.

To be fair, we find them insane as well

 

[TinKnight]

To be fair, we find them insane as well

yeah, insanely cool.

 

[DancingBrft]

After eight years, going on nine of tinkering, I have to wonder if the work ethic is just not there, or the ideas aren’t exciting enough to have at least three of the band members at any one time buckling down and finishing the “art for art’s sake”. I really hope I’m wrong and we get something good and inspiring, but it concerns me.

 

[Registered Dude]

I heard a rumor that the band almost released a song over Christmas, but that it was really sappy/crappy, and they backed off after being told as much.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

Wow, given the sappy/crappy level of songs they have recently released I'm morbidly curious as to what that would have sounded like.

 

[Irvine511]

or the ideas aren’t exciting enough to have at least three of the band members at any one time buckling down and finishing

Not that I know anything at all, but this is my sense. It’s kind of what “Little Things” was all about. I think they may have finally run fairly dry creatively, and I think that’s ok. Bono can start getting AARP discounts in just a couple weeks. A lifetime of creativity is a lot to ask, and most people don’t do their best work late in their career. It can be interesting work, and maybe even very good work, but best?

A lot of creativity is about simply making decisions, and when you’re young you don’t know what you don’t know, and those decisions come much more quickly and easily. But as you get older, the weight of your previous decisions becomes a lot … it leads to the second guessing, the need to measure up to expectations, the exhaustion, the need to get four kings to agree on something, plus actual physical limitations and actual geographic limitations … how could this result in their best work? It probably results in what we see right now: paralysis. And because they don’t *have* to put something out, it’s easier not to.

 

[Registered Dude]

A lot of creativity is about simply making decisions, and when you’re young you don’t know what you don’t know, and those decisions come much more quickly and easily. But as you get older, the weight of your previous decisions becomes a lot … it leads to the second guessing, the need to measure up to expectations, the exhaustion, the need to get four kings to agree on something, plus actual physical limitations and actual geographic limitations … how could this result in their best work? It probably results in what we see right now: paralysis. And because they don’t *have* to put something out, it’s easier not to.

well said.. I'd argue that a decision can also be a choice to commit - to a concept, a time frame, a promise. For whatever reason, that's not one they're prepared to impose. I guess I need to be ok with that

 

[Irvine511]

But also, I’m sure the business side of them says that there’s no point in releasing an album unless they can guarantee an arena/stadium tour with Larry. Period.

Unless he publicly bows out and passes the drumsticks, which he is likely not yet prepared to do.

 

[david]

I guess there really is no new ideas in the house and every book has been read.

 

[namkcuR]

plus actual physical limitations and actual geographic limitations … how could this result in their best work? It probably results in what we see right now: paralysis. And because they don’t *have* to put something out, it’s easier not to.

But also, I’m sure the business side of them says that there’s no point in releasing an album unless they can guarantee an arena/stadium tour with Larry. Period.

Unless he publically bows out and passes the drumsticks, which he is likely not yet prepared to do.

In regards to "physical limitations", we're talking a lot about Larry, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Bono's voice was also an issue. I hate to keep coming back to this, but I think his voice has had a very noticeable decline, and I'm not talking about since the 80s and 90s, I'm talking about since 2018. He was really good imo on the 360 tour in 2009-11 and the I+E tour in 2015 and the JT30 tour in 2017, but starting in 2018, something happened.

There was that one E+I gig in Berlin in September 2018 where they had to call the show off after a few songs because his voice gave out. That performance of Running To Stand Still during his Christmas Eve busking in 2021 was not very good imo. His voice sounded more limited on SOS, with Edge even taking lead on a number of tracks. The Sphere wasn't bad, but he wasn't close to his vocal form from just a decade ago. IMO.

Just saying, Larry might not be the only physical limitation they're dealing with. Reasonable minds may disagree.

 

[Irvine511]

fair point, but also counterpoint: he sounded *amazing* in the Stories of Surrender show.

like, I was legitimately surprised.

 

[BEAL]

I heard a rumor that the band almost released a song over Christmas, but that it was really sappy/crappy, and they backed off after being told as much.

Your Song Saved America

 

[Irvine511]

Stop! (The Fascism)

 

[mikal]

More like Scrappy, eh?

 

[lazarus]

Unless he publicly bows out and passes the drumsticks

You know who would never pass on drumsticks? Bono.

 

[JamietheEdgefan]

I do agree there’s at least a chance the well has simply run dry. But between Covid lockdowns and then Larry needing multiple surgeries over a long period of time (plus recovery), I have to imagine the band just hasn’t had the opportunity to meaningfully record together until basically this year.

Sure it’s been absolutely ages since the last proper album, but it hasn’t actually been very long at all since they’ve been able to get back together and commit to writing/recording an album. It seems that only really happened towards the end of last year.

U2songs reported that they had actually made a lot of progress on an album last year (the ‘rock album’), but that this was all done without Larry, and would have essentially resulted in Larry coming in at the end to record over the top of pre-written Bono and Edge songs, placing him far more in session player territory. They apparently decided to start from scratch so the full band could write together - hence why, when promoting the HTDAAB re-issue, talk shifted away from pursuing a big guitar/rock album, Bono declared the ‘songs of’ era was over, and they instead expressed an ambition for next album to be created as a full band jamming in the studio, as they had done for HTDAAB (and hadn’t for SoI or SoE, which emphasised more formal ‘song-writing’).

There was also all the stuff they did in the meantime. They didn’t have to re-imagine 40 of their previous songs, they could have just put out another ‘best of’. They even managed to record a new single between some of Larry’s surgeries, even though the draw of the Sphere Shows was Achtung Baby/U2’s legacy hits far more than new music. Then there are Bono and Edge’s side projects - the stories of surrender book and tour, the Letterman special, their song with Martin Garrix. The quality of some of this work is an another conversation, but it certainly seems to me that, where there could, they were trying to make music.

And sure, they’ve probably written lots of music that could be released at this point - maybe more than one album! - and it would be nice to have heard it given its been ~8 years since SoE. But it would be music that isn’t fresh/has been gathering dust on a shelf for a matter of years, and, crucially, probably wouldn’t have had true involvement from Larry (or Adam). It sounds like they didn’t want to go down that route, and instead wanted to work on material that’s brand new, and written as a band. Sure it’s frustrating as it means we have to keep waiting, but if that is the place they’re in right now, it actually seems pretty positive.

If they do have a bunch of near-ready to go albums that they’re sitting on, they can always polish and release them when they’ve retired - I’m glad they’re actually making a concerted effort to write fresh material together as a band while they still have the opportunity. And I imagine a philosophy of using band studio sessions to create songs will play to their strengths infinitely more than B&E writing in isolation, which would likely have just yielded more ‘songs of’, Ryan-Tedder style material.

(And sure, this may mean a tour is further out, which is more of a concern given their age/health, but considering Larry’s situation, it was probably unlikely - and may still be unlikely - that they were going to tour by now anyway.)

 

[ascender_RS]

They keep coming back to touring being the reason to release a new album which I get, but if there's really no impetus to focus on songs and release something without a tour, then we've probably only got one or two more tours to look forward to. Especially as they're wedded to the whole album & tour release cycle from 30 years ago.

And that's before you take into account the health issues and other interests of multi-millionaires in their 60s.