New Album Discussion 1 - Songs of..... - Unreasonable guitar album

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Teenager becomes musician to find an outlet for angst and grief in a war weary nation.

Teenager grows into successful young rock star, yet is still filled with angst and grief in a war weary nation.

Young rock star becomes one of the most famous persons on the planet, yet is still filled with angst in grief in a war weary nation.

Middle aged rock icon sees friends and other rock icons commit suicide, deals with own grief and angst. Plays small part in helping to broker peace in war weary nation. Uses celebrity for good.

Older rock icon is happy and doesn't have same angst and grief that drove past lyrics, nor the the war weary nation as a stepping off point for songs. People mock his use of celebrity for good, wonder why he can't write songs like he used to.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Well said Headache. I would only add that older rock icon has serious brush with death, which likely makes him face his own mortality head on and realistically. That also brings back the trauma from the early loss of his Mom and the later loss of his Dad. Wants to slow down and enjoy his family and his life while he can.

 

[ferball415]

I would also add four decades of increasingly incredible wealth/privilege/insulation from “normal person” (or worse) problems, give or take some health scares. The course of such a swath of time usually doesn’t do wonders for the creative (or at least daring) drive.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I think it's just the four decades more than the wealth and privilege and insulation.

Taylor Swift is young and has so much wealth and privilege, she cranks out the songs and albums like there's no tomorrow and her tour was a blockbuster. I know, horrors for even mentioning Taylor blah blah.

On the other hand Bruce Springsteen is older than U2, and so is the E Street Band, but they recently finished a world tour and Bruce has put out many solo albums, did a show on Broadway. He also sold his catalog for an insane amount of money and he has to be richer than U2. Bruce and the E Street Band are obviously touring at this point because they love it so much, and deaths in the band have made it really hit home that time is finite.

 

[ferball415]

Yes, horrors for even mentioning her (thank you for acknowledging this).

But the point, or my point, at least, isn't that U2 and Bruce continue to do things, it's the quality of the output. And even though it could be argued that Bruce has kept to a relatively higher standard in his elder statesman years, I don't think anybody is going to confuse Magic or Working on a Dream with Nebraska or Darkness on the Edge of Town.

Now Nick Cave on the other hand...

 

[dan_smee]

I refuse to enter any pro or con Taylor Swift arguments. I don’t care for her music, and have what I feel are very valid criticisms of her work, but she is undeniably a force for good and positivity in a world that desperately needs it. My male, critical view has to be tempered because so much of the slander and nonsense thrown at her is absolutely male anger at her popularity and difference from their comfort areas.

That said, I think it’s worth noting the Taylor Swift output argument needs to be read in the context of her approach to songwriting - namely a significant amount of co-writing and production “development” from people like Jack Antonoff that goes beyond a traditional dynamic. Again - I am not making a value based statement, just saying that for the most part U2 do a lot of their creative lifting themselves (barring a couple of very obvious and out of character examples like summer of love) so their productivity needs to be balanced with context

 

[mikal]

Teenager becomes musician to find an outlet for angst and grief in a war weary nation.

Teenager grows into successful young rock star, yet is still filled with angst and grief in a war weary nation.

Young rock star becomes one of the most famous persons on the planet, yet is still filled with angst in grief in a war weary nation.

Middle aged rock icon sees friends and other rock icons commit suicide, deals with own grief and angst. Plays small part in helping to broker peace in war weary nation. Uses celebrity for good.

Older rock icon is happy and doesn't have same angst and grief that drove past lyrics, nor the the war weary nation as a stepping off point for songs. People mock his use of celebrity for good, wonder why he can't write songs like he used to.

Is it possible he could pretend to have the same angst? And pretend to be younger?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Well someone suggested in this thread that U2 should try working with Jack Antonoff

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

What is the list of the bands or solo artists who have been around for four decades whose music is just as good now as it was four decades ago? In the opinions of the Interference more than five.

 

[PookaMacP]

Well someone suggested in this thread that U2 should try working with Jack Antonoff

I wouldn't mind if they decided to work with Aaron Dessner, certainly.

 

[The John Tree]

Teenager becomes musician to find an outlet for angst and grief in a war weary nation.

Teenager grows into successful young rock star, yet is still filled with angst and grief in a war weary nation.

Young rock star becomes one of the most famous persons on the planet, yet is still filled with angst in grief in a war weary nation.

Middle aged rock icon sees friends and other rock icons commit suicide, deals with own grief and angst. Plays small part in helping to broker peace in war weary nation. Uses celebrity for good.

Older rock icon is happy and doesn't have same angst and grief that drove past lyrics, nor the the war weary nation as a stepping off point for songs. People mock his use of celebrity for good, wonder why he can't write songs like he used to.

I'm not sure how to respond to this because I don't think anyone is begrudging Bono for changing his lifestyle or being successful or happy. The knock is about the quality of the band's recent music. Furthermore - it's not the subject matter of the current material/lyrics so much as it is the quality of them. I don't know who here is mocking his use of celebrity - I'm certainly not - but "can't write songs like he used to" is absolutely a valid criticism, considering the songs are what we're all here to talk about. I don't buy into the theory that being successful just drains you of your creativity - see the earlier comments about Nick Cave and even Bruce.

On the other hand Bruce Springsteen is older than U2, and so is the E Street Band, but they recently finished a world tour and Bruce has put out many solo albums, did a show on Broadway. He also sold his catalog for an insane amount of money and he has to be richer than U2. Bruce and the E Street Band are obviously touring at this point because they love it so much, and deaths in the band have made it really hit home that time is finite.

True. The one thing Bruce has going for him, though, is that Bruce calls all the shots. If Bruce writes a song and likes it, he records it (with or without the E Street Band) and puts it out when he wants to. He doesn't have to wait for Stevie Van Zandt to fall back in love with the electric guitar and kick out some Venusian punk rock. That probably helps with his more prolific nature.

I don't think anybody is going to confuse Magic or Working on a Dream with Nebraska or Darkness on the Edge of Town.

Certainly not - but there are some real gems on both of those albums (Magic, especially), and Wrecking Ball, Western Stars, and Letter To You as well. Western Stars features some great lyricism from Bruce - "Moonlight Motel" is as good as it gets for latter-day Bruce.

 

[The John Tree]

What is the list of the bands or solo artists who have been around for four decades whose music is just as good now as it was four decades ago? In the opinions of the Interference more than five.

 

[The John Tree]

Well someone suggested in this thread that U2 should try working with Jack Antonoff

I like Jack Antonoff. I like his style. The problem is that everything he produces sounds like Jack Antonoff. I have a feeling it would sound like a Bleachers album, but with Bono singing.

It was only a short little intro, but I liked Andy Barlow's work on "Love Is All We Have Left." I wouldn't mind him at the helm.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Yes I agree that Bruce calls the shots creatively in the E Street Band, by all outside appearances that has worked well for them.

Whereas U2 is an egalitarian band creatively and seemingly in other ways as well, and that can cause creative stalemates.

 

[dan_smee]

Well someone suggested in this thread that U2 should try working with Jack Antonoff

That was me as well. I think they should, because I think they’d actually benefit from a sound developer like him. I want him and Edge to nerd out on sound and see what was spat out

 

[dan_smee]

I like Jack Antonoff. I like his style. The problem is that everything he produces sounds like Jack Antonoff. I have a feeling it would sound like a Bleachers album, but with Bono singing.

It was only a short little intro, but I liked Andy Barlow's work on "Love Is All We Have Left." I wouldn't mind him at the helm.

I’m not convinced that would be a bad thing.

Bleachers have a modern, mild beats based flavour to their jersey/springsteen love fest. I can’t see a saxophone heavy u2 album, and I don’t think his stuff all sounds the same. Like a great Edge riff is instantly identifiable as him, but Sunday Bloody Sunday and The Fly don’t sound homogenised.

Strange Desire sounds like a very different band to self-titled IMO, but instantly recognisable as Jack. And those are wildly different to Norman Fucking Rockwell. But still Jack. I thinks he’s. A generational musician who can create signatures that work in several colours and shades, and he has a unique ability to both be the star and make other stars shine brighter. He’d be perfect for U2 in both developing their sound and giving them some hit-worthy direction.

 

[pacemaker]

Every time potential producer talk comes up, my broken record comes out and I suggest my dream collaborators (whose names aren’t Eno and Lanois):

Trent Reznor + Atticus Ross
Andy Barlow + Flood
Jeff Lynne (who would have been great for SOS, really)

Really, though, at this point they may have to stay with the Jackwhite Lees and the Steve Lillyknives of their production wheelhouse world because of their innate ability to play grabass and alienate and push producers away.

 

[The John Tree]

I’m not convinced that would be a bad thing.

Bleachers have a modern, mild beats based flavour to their jersey/springsteen love fest. I can’t see a saxophone heavy u2 album, and I don’t think his stuff all sounds the same. Like a great Edge riff is instantly identifiable as him, but Sunday Bloody Sunday and The Fly don’t sound homogenised.

Strange Desire sounds like a very different band to self-titled IMO, but instantly recognisable as Jack. And those are wildly different to Norman Fucking Rockwell. But still Jack. I thinks he’s. A generational musician who can create signatures that work in several colours and shades, and he has a unique ability to both be the star and make other stars shine brighter. He’d be perfect for U2 in both developing their sound and giving them some hit-worthy direction.

I can't really argue with any of this. Again, I'm a big Bleachers fan. Maybe my mind just can't hear a synthy, 80s pop influenced U2 album. I'd also be curious to hear how Edge-heavy an Antonoff U2 album would be. I have a feeling it'd be more of a Keyboard Edge album but, again, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Could be good.

If they did work with someone like Jack Antonoff, I hope they'd work with only Jack Antonoff. Starting a track with Jack Antonoff only to pass it off to Jacknife Lee and then filter it through Steve Lillywhite doesn't sound as interesting.

 

[lazarus]

I refuse to enter any pro or con Taylor Swift arguments.

And yet:

That said, I think it’s worth noting the Taylor Swift output argument needs to be read in the context of her approach to songwriting - namely a significant amount of co-writing and production “development” from people like Jack Antonoff that goes beyond a traditional dynamic. Again - I am not making a value based statement, just saying that for the most part U2 do a lot of their creative lifting themselves (barring a couple of very obvious and out of character examples like summer of love) so their productivity needs to be balanced with context

I don't like what you're implying, that Taylor needs outside help and U2 doesn't. We only need go back to SOE to see extra guitar players playing in tracks for no reason, and people that probably could have been credited as co-songwriters. Taylor likes bouncing ideas off other creatives--I'm not a huge Antonoff fan but he's not just a producer, seeing as how he also has had multiple bands himself. Every Taylor album has a couple songs that she wrote on her own, and even on some of the ones that are co-written, she literally has shared voice memos she's sends to collaborators (usually Antonoff) of the songs in demo form, and it's pretty clear she's capable of doing this on her own.

U2 are four men in their later 50s (as of SOE's time period), and *still* needed additional people to do these songs. They had a dispute with Eno and Lanois over songwriting credit on No Line, and it's clear that they arguably should have received it on previous albums.

Lastly, U2 hasn't made an album as good as Folklore since the 90s, sorry not sorry.

 

[ferball415]

No Antonoff.

Nigel Godrich.

 

[dan_smee]

And yet:



I don't like what you're implying, that Taylor needs outside help and U2 doesn't. We only need go back to SOE to see extra guitar players playing in tracks for no reason, and people that probably could have been credited as co-songwriters. Taylor likes bouncing ideas off other creatives--I'm not a huge Antonoff fan but he's not just a producer, seeing as how he also has had multiple bands himself. Every Taylor album has a couple songs that she wrote on her own, and even on some of the ones that are co-written, she literally has shared voice memos she's sends to collaborators (usually Antonoff) of the songs in demo form, and it's pretty clear she's capable of doing this on her own.

U2 are four men in their later 50s (as of SOE's time period), and *still* needed additional people to do these songs. They had a dispute with Eno and Lanois over songwriting credit on No Line, and it's clear that they arguably should have received it on previous albums.

Lastly, U2 hasn't made an album as good as Folklore since the 90s, sorry not sorry.

I don’t like how you are selectively interpreting what I said to make a point that isn’t relevant to mine.

There was no implication. No judgement. It was a response to someone making a comment about how prolific she was comparatively. I added context and was very careful to be balanced.

You choose to twist it and read it in a way that you could be offended. Notice I am STILL not denigrating her despite your efforts to bring it into that space. I think the public criticisms of her are largely lazy, sexist garbage. I also don’t like her music very much. I respect her. Why are you trying to make it something it isn’t?

 

[2861U2]

Haven't seen it mentioned here yet, but rumor is U2 might be performing at the FireAid benefit concert for LA on the 30th.

 

[BEAL]

Been a long time since we’ve played this song. Too long.

This is a song called “Fire”!!

 

[Hewson]

Been a long time since we’ve played this song. Too long.

This is a song called “Fire”!!

Why not.
Some genius decided putting Earth, Wind & Fire in the lineup was a smart move.

 

[PookaMacP]

While we're on the subject of the post-90s output, I see that Rolling Stone's top 250 albums of the twenty-first century has only one entry for U2: ATYCLB, coming in at no. 162.

The 250 Greatest Albums of the 21st Century So Far

The best albums of 21st century so far, including Beyonce, Taylor Swift, Bad Bunny, Radiohead, Lady Gaga, and more

www.rollingstone.com

If one were being mischievous, one could say that now that Jann Wenner is sidelined, U2 have lost their special place in Rolling Stone's heart.

 

[AndrewCowley]

Now Nick Cave on the other hand...

Skeleton Tree, Ghosteen, Carnage, Wild God.

Off the scale, four letter word, extraordinary.

 

[dan_smee]

How many artists completely reinvent their image and sound at his age and somehow churn out their best work continuously? We must protect Nick.

 

[ferball415]

If one were being mischievous, one could say that now that Jann Wenner is sidelined, U2 have lost their special place in Rolling Stone's heart.

If Andy Greene weren't essentially on retainer for them there, perhaps.

 

[AndrewCowley]

How many artists completely reinvent their image and sound at his age and somehow churn out their best work continuously? We must protect Nick.

Indeed. There is unbound genius at work with Nick.

Take the song Frogs for instance. No words.

 

[ferball415]

How many artists completely reinvent their image and sound at his age and somehow churn out their best work continuously? We must protect Nick.

I don't even think he's really even that reinventive (not meant in a bad way, but in a sense that there are certain Nick Cave aesthetic fundamentals that don't change) so to speak. But I do think his quality control is virtually unparalleled. Thom Yorke/Radiohead/The Smile, but they're a decade (!) younger.