Definitely - I see it that way as well. And it works well with the song about the pair of them. The notion of 'there is a silence that comes to a house, where no one can sleep' I feel touches upon what Bono spoke in his autobiography. How the three of them just didn't talk about her at all after she died. Such a powerful, sad but redemptive set of lyrics. Love the performance from U2360 DVD especially.
New Album Discussion 1 - Songs of..... - Unreasonable guitar album
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mikal
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mikal
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AndrewCowley
Refugee
So I’ve been thinking about this a lot. Listening to recent albums from long time and successful bands such as The Cure, Springsteen and Pearl Jam. At this stage in their careers all these bands / artists have a core sound and this is what they fall back on when recording a new album. Not to say it’s easy for them but you can tell there’s a roadmap in place for when they go into the studio.
I mean like The Cure’s album is freaking astonishing, and not to take away from it, but it’s The Cure doing The Cure things. See what I mean?
What the hell is U2’s core sound and roadmap? No wonder why it’s a struggle. Their career and sound, with all its storied success, has flip flopped all over the place. That made sense at the time and in many ways is what defines them. I’m not saying this is a criticism. But my guess is it sure as hell makes it harder for them to record new music. I can imagine them thinking so which version of U2 are we right now? Might also explain all the producer hopping. They themselves can’t answer that question and search endlessly for outside assistance. If you said back to them “be yourself” that doesn’t help either.
It is party also why I find it hard to listen to their back catalogue. It’s all over the place. If I’m thinking I should listen to U2 again, the choice of where to go is difficult.
Just rambling …
I mean like The Cure’s album is freaking astonishing, and not to take away from it, but it’s The Cure doing The Cure things. See what I mean?
What the hell is U2’s core sound and roadmap? No wonder why it’s a struggle. Their career and sound, with all its storied success, has flip flopped all over the place. That made sense at the time and in many ways is what defines them. I’m not saying this is a criticism. But my guess is it sure as hell makes it harder for them to record new music. I can imagine them thinking so which version of U2 are we right now? Might also explain all the producer hopping. They themselves can’t answer that question and search endlessly for outside assistance. If you said back to them “be yourself” that doesn’t help either.
It is party also why I find it hard to listen to their back catalogue. It’s all over the place. If I’m thinking I should listen to U2 again, the choice of where to go is difficult.
Just rambling …
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U2 tend to get slated for going back to ‘the u2 sound’ which traditionally contains a big chorus and a delay effect. People want experimentation from them, almost an expected reinvention with every release. The Cure get away with doing Cure things because it’s their first studio release in 15 years, you can be forgiven to be grateful for having anything at all.
I love Depeche Mode and there is this guy on YouTube that breaks the songs down etc etc and he used a really clever analogy that kind of explains every new album release.
You are in the desert, not eaten for days, you are starving. You find a bowl of sprouts. You hate sprouts but because it’s the first thing you have had in a long time you think it’s the best meal ever.
I love Depeche Mode and there is this guy on YouTube that breaks the songs down etc etc and he used a really clever analogy that kind of explains every new album release.
You are in the desert, not eaten for days, you are starving. You find a bowl of sprouts. You hate sprouts but because it’s the first thing you have had in a long time you think it’s the best meal ever.
AndrewCowley
Refugee
At this point though, I’d take that. What else is in the tank?
It just needs to be rethought a little to accommodate Bono singing a lot more in his lower register or else it will sound way overdone ala the past few releases.
People just want to hear some songs that remind them of how U2 got here. Not sci fi punk or whatever the crap the latest throwaway excuse is for taking years to make anything.
Sorry for sounding negative.
I would prefer to see U2 go towards the end of the Pop album sound. Would love another Please, but my attention goes more to Velvet Dress
A low key, blue album. No more bombastic RAWK songs unless they’re absolutely positive they struck gold like Vertigo….but we’ve gotten those attempts every album.
I’d like to never see Atomic City style again.
U2 are olds. They’re breaking down. A sci fi album with Eno and Danny would be a great path to pursue
A low key, blue album. No more bombastic RAWK songs unless they’re absolutely positive they struck gold like Vertigo….but we’ve gotten those attempts every album.
I’d like to never see Atomic City style again.
U2 are olds. They’re breaking down. A sci fi album with Eno and Danny would be a great path to pursue
I’m going to sound dull now but maybe an ambient ‘Songs of Ascent’ is actually what they need. That meditative album they talked so much about for so long.
Release it, they don’t need to tour it. Give us a hits tour in 2026
Release it, they don’t need to tour it. Give us a hits tour in 2026
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david
ONE love, blood, life
Release Ascent.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Supplier
So now they're recycling the sci fi thing?
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
U2 are also much bigger than The Cure and DM and even Pearl Jam.
They have expectations put upon them that virtually no other band has, even if they are cringe and old now. I think it's the awareness of that pressure, that sense of having a "job" to do, and the fact that they've always viewed themselves as capitol-I "Important," I think these days pushes them to try and find someone who will help them write that killer chorus that gets them on the radio or helps the song break through (ie, Tedder). They wanted to be this band for SOI/E, and it's why we have the dreaded NLOTH Middle 3. It's all in the service of being THE band who speaks to the moment, who captures the zeitgeist, who pleases their base while expanding their reach, and who also puts on a gigantic tour that employs lots and lots of people. It's the band that is chosen to play the Super Bowl after 9/11, or the steps of the Lincoln Memorial before Obama's inauguration, or Sarajevo after the war.
It's a lot!
Hopefully, they can remove this pressure from themselves.
They have expectations put upon them that virtually no other band has, even if they are cringe and old now. I think it's the awareness of that pressure, that sense of having a "job" to do, and the fact that they've always viewed themselves as capitol-I "Important," I think these days pushes them to try and find someone who will help them write that killer chorus that gets them on the radio or helps the song break through (ie, Tedder). They wanted to be this band for SOI/E, and it's why we have the dreaded NLOTH Middle 3. It's all in the service of being THE band who speaks to the moment, who captures the zeitgeist, who pleases their base while expanding their reach, and who also puts on a gigantic tour that employs lots and lots of people. It's the band that is chosen to play the Super Bowl after 9/11, or the steps of the Lincoln Memorial before Obama's inauguration, or Sarajevo after the war.
It's a lot!
Hopefully, they can remove this pressure from themselves.
i really don't give a turkey about the pitchforks of the world who will rag on the band if they go back to sounding like, ya know, U2. who honestly cares?
i don't even care about the U2 fans who will bitch and moan about them not being experimental anymore - most of them completely ignore the fact that the same reasons why U2 went experimental in the 90s are why they went back to basics in the 2000s, and why they've fucked up so much in the 2010s... a desire to remain relevant and big.
just sounds like U2. if you're going to put out new music (which i don't even need, mind you - i'd rather they just tour more. alas)... make it sound like U2. yes, there's been a lot of U2 sounds. but give me the chimey guitar, give me big hooks and big choruses. hit me over the head with some U2 at their most U2ey.
at this point in their lives, and mine, i'd much rather have that than some forced attempt at sounding modern and hip and cool with the kids, and/or some abstract, meandering bullshit that you know they'll only go half way on (coughcoughnolineonthehorizoncoughcough)
shit on the early 2000s albums all you want... that was U2 at their most comfortable being U2.
i don't even care about the U2 fans who will bitch and moan about them not being experimental anymore - most of them completely ignore the fact that the same reasons why U2 went experimental in the 90s are why they went back to basics in the 2000s, and why they've fucked up so much in the 2010s... a desire to remain relevant and big.
just sounds like U2. if you're going to put out new music (which i don't even need, mind you - i'd rather they just tour more. alas)... make it sound like U2. yes, there's been a lot of U2 sounds. but give me the chimey guitar, give me big hooks and big choruses. hit me over the head with some U2 at their most U2ey.
at this point in their lives, and mine, i'd much rather have that than some forced attempt at sounding modern and hip and cool with the kids, and/or some abstract, meandering bullshit that you know they'll only go half way on (coughcoughnolineonthehorizoncoughcough)
shit on the early 2000s albums all you want... that was U2 at their most comfortable being U2.
With respect to Cure and Depeche Mode, they don't aim for hit singles though - and that gives them more creative freedom to do things without thinking about mainstream appeal, making their music feel honest and true to themselves. U2's 'big music' came naturally in their classic era but is now a conscious attempt at crowd pleasing. That's the only explanation in hiring industry songwriters to finish them off for them. Problem is, that 'big music' has deserted them and when trying to revert to it, we get really poor imitations of their earlier work.
But they've tried being U2ey at their most U2ey for the Innocence and Experience albums? And the results were, quite frankly, embarrassing for much of it. Atomic City? If that's the best they can do, then god help us. Not many would have an issue if they were releasing albums similar in standard to Leave Behind and Atomic Bomb but they aren't coming close to that.
The 'big music' has left them, they're unable to do that anymore. And they should accept that. Fine. There's plenty other areas to explore though that I'm sure they could achieve.
The main issue is going over old ground, there's no creativity or exploration in that. While you say that a desire for relevance was the motivation behind every reinvention, it is also true that the artist's curiosity and wonder helped that pursuit. To at least explore uncharted territory, trying different concepts and different genres would hopefully spark that wonder essential to creativity. Hiring some cheap industry shill to write a generic cut and paste chorus for them is the complete opposite of that artistic principle.
So what if it doesn't fully work out. Interesting but flawed U2 is still better than uninspired retreads.
Dead and Co. clearly understand that a) they're old, and b) they'll never have another concert experience like the Sphere again so they might as well double down.
yea i don't know what to say if you feel innocence and experience was U2 trying to be U2ey. jumping on board with danger mouse (which i approve of) and ryan tedder (which i despite) is not U2 trying to be U2. for one - the edge more or less took both of those albums off. the most interesting guitar pieces on SOE were written by other people.
and i could not disagree more with the idea that "interesting but flawed" is somehow good. but i get that there are some who think that way. it's one of the major paradoxes in being a U2 fan - as they were able to hook in the people who wanted interesting and experimental AND the people who wanted big and popular.
but i don't need an "interesting" piece of music that is a pile of crap - like much of No Line. Boots. Unknown Caller. great...
i want them to work with eno, lanoid, and sure, lillywhite. work with the folks that they had the most success with, and figure it out.
i'm fine - at this point in their careers - with an effort that sounds like U2 vs. trying to reinvent the wheel at this point in their careers.
now obviously if they CAN put together a more experimental album and capture some magic that they haven't had in years and knock it out of the park? great! i just don't see it, so if they're going to release new music - just stick to the basics and get back their on the road. i could care less of more than a new song or two even get played live.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
Is Atomic City bad?
Those songs are rubbish I agree, but to be more accurate, I'm referring to the more meditative, restrained songs from No Line they should pursue that outweighs the MOR nonsense from Innocence and Experience. These songs actually sound like a bunch of grown ups rather than blokes in leather jackets going through a midlife crisis.yea i don't know what to say if you feel innocence and experience was U2 trying to be U2ey. jumping on board with danger mouse (which i approve of) and ryan tedder (which i despite) is not U2 trying to be U2. for one - the edge more or less took both of those albums off. the most interesting guitar pieces on SOE were written by other people.
and i could not disagree more with the idea that "interesting but flawed" is somehow good. but i get that there are some who think that way. it's one of the major paradoxes in being a U2 fan - as they were able to hook in the people who wanted interesting and experimental AND the people who wanted big and popular.
but i don't need an "interesting" piece of music that is a pile of crap - like much of No Line. Boots. Unknown Caller. great...
i want them to work with eno, lanoid, and sure, lillywhite. work with the folks that they had the most success with, and figure it out.
i'm fine - at this point in their careers - with an effort that sounds like U2 vs. trying to reinvent the wheel at this point in their careers.
now obviously if they CAN put together a more experimental album and capture some magic that they haven't had in years and knock it out of the park? great! i just don't see it, so if they're going to release new music - just stick to the basics and get back their on the road. i could care less of more than a new song or two even get played live.
And I think Innocence and Experience are the albums that most sound like what a U2 album is for those who hate them. Full of big generic choruses and big platitudes in the lyrics, the kind of criticism that their critics always inaccurately threw at them - but sadly correct with these albums. Song For Someone sounds like an X Factor winner trying to recreate With Or Without You, Get Out Your Own Way sounds like JLS writing Beautiful Day. It's attempts U2 trademarks of the 'big music', but is nothing but a complete bastardisation of it. That's what is happening of late when they try to write self conscious U2ey songs.
I want U2 to get creative without losing the classic U2 sound and choruses. I hope that them working with Brian Eno again is a good sign that they are finally doing that. I’m a huge fan of SOI/SOE but really it would be refreshing to hear them move away from that very basic pop/rock sound. These guys are in their mid-60’s now. Trying to appeal to a mainstream audience isn’t going to happen forcing out another GOOYOW or Atomic City. And honestly, I don’t think they realize how many new fans they would gain just producing great creative music that doesn’t sound like it was manufactured for radio
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Hmm…I both agree and disagree with your response here. You’re right, SOI and SOE in their finished forms are most certainly not “U2 being U2”, aside from a few tracks on each.
However, I don’t think working with Danger Mouse was some desperate move; it’s in keeping with their history of seeking out new collaborators, whether it’s veterans like Rick Rubin and Chris Thomas, or younger names like Nellee Hooper and Howie B, or elevating engineers to the producer level with Flood and Jacknife. The Danger Mouse songs that survived (Invisible, Reach Around, Sleep, Troubles) sound fresh without being desperate or outside their usual sphere of “experimentation”.
By contrast, we know very well why Tedder and Epworth were brought on board—not for creative reasons but rather a blatant attempt at chart success with the youngs. And that’s why it intimately didn’t sound like U2, and why the Songs Of albums are both mixed bags.
I agree. You are right, the brightest moments are the ones done by Danger Mouse. They should have just released the album a year before without bringing Epworth and Tedder to piss in the waters. Keep Invisible on the album, make it lead single and it would have done the heavy lifting to ensure its commerciality without compromising the original more interesting album.
AndrewCowley
Refugee
Here’s what needs to happen. It has not happened for a long time.
Edge needs to find some interesting guitar sounds. Huge, big, immersive sounds ala When I Look At The World.
Bring those sounds to the studio. This is the base. Put words and the rest of the songs around those sounds.
Bono can write whatever he wants. Push his vocals back in the final mix. His vocals are way overcooked in the way recent work has been mixed.
It doesn’t need a ‘narrative’. It doesn’t need 4 producers and other outside help. When this band had a unique sound, it was 100% down to Edge’s guitar. Go back to that. Please.
Edge needs to find some interesting guitar sounds. Huge, big, immersive sounds ala When I Look At The World.
Bring those sounds to the studio. This is the base. Put words and the rest of the songs around those sounds.
Bono can write whatever he wants. Push his vocals back in the final mix. His vocals are way overcooked in the way recent work has been mixed.
It doesn’t need a ‘narrative’. It doesn’t need 4 producers and other outside help. When this band had a unique sound, it was 100% down to Edge’s guitar. Go back to that. Please.
It all went crap when they moved out of the Quay.
It has been mentioned already that Edge borrowed riffs from others for SOE but it hasn’t been mentioned yet that (we already know but just a reminder) 13 and American Soul are rewrites. It is such a lazy album.
SOI and SOE should have been excellent themes but neither of them sound like an authentic journey.
What I liked about NLOTH was the lyrics, Bono writing in/for characters. I also liked the regular clips we had of them in the studio. It was a fantastic time to be a fan
It has been mentioned already that Edge borrowed riffs from others for SOE but it hasn’t been mentioned yet that (we already know but just a reminder) 13 and American Soul are rewrites. It is such a lazy album.
SOI and SOE should have been excellent themes but neither of them sound like an authentic journey.
What I liked about NLOTH was the lyrics, Bono writing in/for characters. I also liked the regular clips we had of them in the studio. It was a fantastic time to be a fan
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
I listened to the Record Store Day podcast with the Edge interview yesterday, and he mentioned a fun tidbit about Mercy/Luckiest: the “dirty”, driving guitar that opens the song is him, but the second guitar following it that plays the cleaner, single notes is Bono. Edge said he really liked what Bono did there and I agree.
And a side note to that, I’ve been listening to peak-era New Order this past week (unbeknownst to me they’ve been re-releasing them with new masters and bonus tracks the last couple years), and Mercy really reminds of their more guitar-heavy, plaintive songs, which is probably why I love it so much.
And a side note to that, I’ve been listening to peak-era New Order this past week (unbeknownst to me they’ve been re-releasing them with new masters and bonus tracks the last couple years), and Mercy really reminds of their more guitar-heavy, plaintive songs, which is probably why I love it so much.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Edge also said right after that it was too bad Bono’s arm injury left him unable to play. I thought it was his hand, but I guess it doesn’t matter.
MrPryck2U
ONE love, blood, life
A thing I used to say a long time ago, (Probably in the 90's or the 2000's) was that Bono could fart along to a drum machine, and I'd probably like it. Wherever U2 has gone musically, I've gone with them and mostly enjoyed the ride. Sure, there's gonna be a few songs that are not my favorites, but it's still U2. Works for me.
Let's just say, if this is the big 'fuck off rock album' they had in mind, then they've done us all a favour in abandoning it.
Please please please ditch the 'rawk' for god sake, it's embarrassing at this stage. But its indicative of another creative decision that has killed their careers, and that is the obsession with America. I think there's a bias in trying to appeal to MOR American rock radio stations these days. They were absolutely stung by the reaction to Pop in America, unfortunately bowing to ultra conservative musically illiterate hillbillies who thought they'd become 'f*gs'. Much of the Euro influences of U2 went over the heads of large swathes of Americans, those more attuned to Kid Rock, Bon Jovi and Billy Rae Cyrus. Songs like Atomic City absolutely cater to that ultra safe US audience who have no tastes. Only Eno and Lanois have dragged them out of that stupor in parts since 2000 (although we cant blame them two for the No Line sabotage).
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Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
I dunno … the US sure liked Achtung which was every bit as “euro” as Pop, and I don’t think they were ever trying to win over Kid Rock fans?
mikal
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