New Album Discussion 1 - Songs of..... - Unreasonable guitar album

[super fly guy]

Each time I listen to Treason i love it more,just a shame the wider public won't really hear it.

 

[dabiggestu2fan]

My white whale is definitely a full band studio version of Boy Falls From The Sky.

Oh and the album Solar,and Sky Hawke.

Oh yes! Please oh please release Boy Fall From Sky! I absolutely love this song (from what we heard)

 

[The John Tree]

Re-reading Edge's interview in Rolling Stone. A few scattered thoughts:

I just came in from a recording session. We’re doing some demos and recording some tunes that we’ve been working on. It was just Bono and myself, but it was a lot of fun.

This does not sound like a "band in a room." This is more Bono and Edge songwriting camp.

And in the case of this guitar-driven riff, out came “Xanax and Wine,” “Fast Cars,” and “Picture of You.”

Calling these three different tunes is a bit of a stretch. Picture of You is just an edited Xanax and Wine with a few new backing vocals.

But “Treason” needed some new vocals because there was whole sections that were missing that didn’t have a lyric.

Ooph. I really don't love that my least favorite track is also the one that seems to be recent.

The very first version of “City of Blinding Lights” was on the Pop album, and we just couldn’t quite crack it.

Please, Edge. For the love of God. Give us a remastered Pop with outtakes. I need to hear this.

We’re working on so many different things. During the whole Covid lockdown, I just went crazy into creating tracks and song ideas. So we’re starting to go through some of those, and we’ve got an awful lot of material to wade through to see what it is. And I guess we’re at that great honeymoon period of a lot of experimentation, and looking at all kinds of possible themes musically.

Oh this thing is so far away. They're listening to Edge sketches and he and Bono are trying to lay down demos. We haven't even reached the "Larry doesn't like it," phase yet.

I think the guitar will be a big part of the next record, but I don’t think it’s going to be a heavy rock album.

This is great news.

I think it’s going to be a very different kind of use of the guitar, not a straight-up rock thing.

We’ve never done that. It’s just not who we are. We’ve always tried to avoid using the instrument in a way that’s too mainstream and kind of normal. We’ve always tried to find ways to use the guitar that has never been heard before, and it seems that that’s an important part of what gets us excited.

This is an odd statement to make considering this interview is in support of album that was very clearly marketed as a "straight-up rock thing," and had a lead single with a (great) riff that your band itself described as an "eternal rock riff" that "sounds like its always been there."

It’s almost like we’ve got to find our way into the counterculture, and it’s bringing that to the masses rather than ever trying to find what’s happening, what’s fashionable, what’s going on. So the same is happening with us right now, and the songs will tell us the direction of the album. Music starts to come into focus.

I truly have no idea what this means.

Yeah, we’ve done a session with Larry. We’re going to do another one in a couple of weeks, and we’re having a great time. So yeah, obviously we don’t want to be over-doing it, but yes, it’s going great and he’s in great form. It’s lovely to spend time with him in the studio in a creative environment.

Hooray! I never realized how much I needed Larry to be there, as a fan, until he was gone for the Sphere shows.

We’re working away with Jacknife [Lee], and I’m really enjoying working with him. And we have other sessions booked for potential different projects, which will probably all end up being folded into the U2 project, but we are working with other people and enjoying that. We’re really at that phase of just experimenting, letting the music tell us what to do. It’s just a lot of fun right now.

Again: this album ain't coming out any time soon and, when it does, there will be a *lot* of cooks in the kitchen.

I would say both are quite likely, but we haven’t really put any energy into them yet. But yes, definitely. As I was saying, I have 100 song beginnings that we’re wading through. There’s so many song ideas from each U2 album that has been released, and I’m sure we will get around to doing something with Pop. I remember that very fondly. There was a lot of cool experimentation going on at that time. So yeah, I’m sure it’ll happen.

It's funny to hear the disconnect between band members on certain projects. Adam says they're going to write together - Edge reports on a songwriting/demo session with just Bono. Bono describes Songs of Ascent as being essentially complete, just shelved - Edge describes it as not having energy put it into it yet. But again, Edge: Pop remastered. Let's do this.

 

[lazarus]

something that's ultimately missing from the myth of mercy is the idea that, ya know, the band cut the song for length.

if they really thought it was the bee's knees, they would have cut something else.

it's clear by their constant tinkering that they didn't quite feel it was complete - otherwise they would have just thrown it out into the wild as is 20 years ago.

If an album is too long, it makes sense to cut the longest track, especially when it was the last one recorded (according to the chart in the special edition book). Maybe they felt it strayed from the original intention of the album, who knows?

Regardless, what’s clear is that they were wrong. The 360 version is an abomination, and you’ll notice that none of those changes survived through Luckiest Man, and it course-corrects again back towards the original. So clearly they realized they had it right the first time.

The changes, while not all terrible this time, are on balance not improvements. How many people here think the double vocals on the chorus is necessary, or good?

More importantly, you didn’t answer my other question: why do we have three official versions of the other song cut from HTDAAB late in the game, but only one of Mercy/Luckiest Man?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

i have zero issues with the double vocals on the chorus.

 

[mikal]

Imagine double vocals on "Because Because Because"!

 

[ferball415]

Re-reading Edge's interview in Rolling Stone. A few scattered thoughts:

This does not sound like a "band in a room." This is more Bono and Edge songwriting camp.

Calling these three different tunes is a bit of a stretch. Picture of You is just an edited Xanax and Wine with a few new backing vocals.

Oh this thing is so far away. They're listening to Edge sketches and he and Bono are trying to lay down demos. We haven't even reached the "Larry doesn't like it," phase yet.

This is an odd statement to make considering this interview is in support of album that was very clearly marketed as a "straight-up rock thing," and had a lead single with a (great) riff that your band itself described as an "eternal rock riff" that "sounds like its always been there."

I truly have no idea what this means.

This is what I meant when I said he’s developed a (Bono-esque) habit of “talking without saying anything” anymore, esp to people in the tank like Andy Greene.

 

[david]

Native Son being ignored makes sense… e.g. Bono and little Leo.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

i have zero issues with the double vocals on the chorus.

sounds delightful

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Native Son being ignored makes sense… e.g. Bono and little Leo.

nobody thinks about Leo anymore. he's gotta be like 30 by now

 

[mikal]

nobody thinks about Leo anymore. he's gotta be like 30 by now

He's 8, actually.

 

[The John Tree]

i have zero issues with the double vocals on the chorus.

I certainly do. Is it the biggest deal? No. But it’s not an improvement. It takes some of the power out of the chorus.

This is what I meant when I said he’s developed a (Bono-esque) habit of “talking without saying anything” anymore, esp to people in the tank like Andy Greene.

I used to think that Bono was the primary shot caller in this band, with the Edge as his lieutenant, but it increasingly appears that Edge holds up the band’s productivity more than anything. Bono used to say “blame Edge” when asked why it was taking so long for a new release, and I used to think he was kidding. Now it seems like he was being truthful.

 

[vaz020202]

Recently signed up to the forum again after lurking in the shadows for years to share my thoughts.

Treason = it’s a fun song, makes me wonder if this is what the RedOne sessions would have been like. Maybe my White Whale. Does it fit with the Bomb era? No. If Happiness is u2 doing Franz Ferdinand, this, the middle section anyway, is u2 doing RHCP.

Evidence of Life = very much an Edge project and is very early 80’s. I don’t mind the vocals, it blends with the music, it isn’t front and centre. I would have really really liked maybe a more aggressive vocal on the final delivery of Evidence of Life and a gritty solo to break it up. It almost comes to the boil but beats a retreat. Does it sound like a Bomb song? No


Does the world really need a new u2 studio album? Absolutely not. Would I prefer them to go back to the archives and do more of this stuff? Absolutely. I want to hear all the projects they shelved, all of the demos.

RedOne sessions
Rubin Demos
The Eno NLOTH
Danger SOI
SOA

 

[ferball415]

I used to think that Bono was the primary shot caller in this band, with the Edge as his lieutenant, but it increasingly appears that Edge holds up the band’s productivity more than anything. Bono used to say “blame Edge” when asked why it was taking so long for a new release, and I used to think he was kidding. Now it seems like he was being truthful.

Yea I mean, I think it’s..it’s probably actually less simplistic than we might imagine but there’s very little doubt that those two call the vast majority of the shots now (and probably ever-increasingly over at least the past 30 years).

Circling back to U2 at the End of the World, which I mentioned recently, for those who’ve read it, there’s an interesting/telling conversation with Paul McG towards the end when discussing internal personal dynamics in the band: at the time, Paul agreed with Bill Flanagan’s suggestion that Bono/Edge/Larry formed an “irreducible core”, with Adam being something of a free radical (in earlier days probably due to lack of shared Christianity, at the time the book covers, seemingly due to his “lifestyle” issues). It’s interesting that now, it’s fairly clear that a current 3:1 split would have Larry as the odd man out.

I’m also guessing Edge’s propensity to take the creative reins over even Bono came to the fore with Zooropa, with him saying about his production credit that he thought it basically amounted to *worrying* more than anyone else.

 

[The John Tree]

Yea I mean, I think it’s..it’s probably actually less simplistic than we might imagine but there’s very little doubt that those two call the vast majority of the shots now (and probably ever-increasingly over at least the past 30 years).

Certainly. And a lot of bands are this way - Metallica is probably U2’s closest 1:1 comparison in terms of scope of influence, mass appeal, legendary status, and era, and they operate the same way. Kirk Hammett and Robert Trujillo have input, but James Hetfield and Lars Ulrich are the driving creative and decision-making forces behind the band.

It makes sense for Bono and Edge to be the shot callers creatively: the melodic side of things come from them. What surprises me is how different they are with regard to the band’s activity. I get the impression that, if Bono had his way, this band would have released a lot more music by now. I used to think that all of his extracurricular activity slowed progress, but he seems like the rare type of human who has the energy to balance all that while also being productive creatively. It’s Edge who wants to tinker with everything.

Circling back to U2 at the End of the World, which I mentioned recently, for those who’ve read it, there’s an interesting/telling conversation with Paul McG towards the end when discussing internal personal dynamics in the band: at the time, Paul agreed with Bill Flanagan’s suggestion that Bono/Edge/Larry formed an “irreducible core”, with Adam being something of a free radical (in earlier days probably due to lack of shared Christianity, at the time the book covers, seemingly due to his “lifestyle” issues). It’s interesting that now, it’s fairly clear that a current 3:1 split would have Larry as the odd man out.

I loved this book and I’m due for a re-read. I’m sure these dynamics have altered in the 30 years since the book’s release: the most fascinating portion was when they discussed (outside of Flanagan’s company) the possibility of reconfiguring compensation based off of input, rather than an even 4-way split amongst band members. Even more interesting was the implication that it would put Paul McGuiness below Bono, but above Adam. I wonder how that worked out.

Larry seems to be the “odd man out” recently, but I imagine that’s more due to Adam’s easygoing nature. I’m not so sure how it’s “3 and then 1 odd man out” so much as it’s “Bono and Edge have big ideas and don’t want to wait around for Larry, Larry has a no-nonsense demeanor and doesn’t hesitate to voice his displeasure. And Adam? He’s here when we call him, smiling.”

 

[ferball415]

Certainly. And a lot of bands are this way - Metallica is probably U2’s closest 1:1 comparison in terms of scope of influence, mass appeal, legendary status, and era, and they operate the same way. Kirk Hammett and Robert Trujillo have input, but James Hetfield and Lars Ulrich are the driving creative and decision-making forces behind the band.

It makes sense for Bono and Edge to be the shot callers creatively: the melodic side of things come from them. What surprises me is how different they are with regard to the band’s activity. I get the impression that, if Bono had his way, this band would have released a lot more music by now. I used to think that all of his extracurricular activity slowed progress, but he seems like the rare type of human who has the energy to balance all that while also being productive creatively. It’s Edge who wants to tinker with everything.

I loved this book and I’m due for a re-read. I’m sure these dynamics have altered in the 30 years since the book’s release: the most fascinating portion was when they discussed (outside of Flanagan’s company) the possibility of reconfiguring compensation based off of input, rather than an even 4-way split amongst band members. Even more interesting was the implication that it would put Paul McGuiness below Bono, but above Adam. I wonder how that worked out.

Larry seems to be the “odd man out” recently, but I imagine that’s more due to Adam’s easygoing nature. I’m not so sure how it’s “3 and then 1 odd man out” so much as it’s “Bono and Edge have big ideas and don’t want to wait around for Larry, Larry has a no-nonsense demeanor and doesn’t hesitate to voice his displeasure. And Adam? He’s here when we call him, smiling.”

Yes, agreed, and obviously Larry has been having medical issues that aren’t controllable in an interpersonal sense.

I, too, am due for a re-read, it’s such fucking great book, and where the fuck has he been lately (Bill F.)?

P.S. Though on-the-whole a “low-rent” version of U2 (though still love the first two albums, plus a bit more), Coldplay I think is a more apt comparison than Metallica, outside of age.

 

[DomCobb]

I certainly do. Is it the biggest deal? No. But it’s not an improvement. It takes some of the power out of the chorus.

I used to think that Bono was the primary shot caller in this band, with the Edge as his lieutenant, but it increasingly appears that Edge holds up the band’s productivity more than anything. Bono used to say “blame Edge” when asked why it was taking so long for a new release, and I used to think he was kidding. Now it seems like he was being truthful.

Edge is the productive one. Bono is the procrastinator. Larry is the second guesser. Adam is along for the ride.

 

[The John Tree]

Edge is the productive one. Bono is the procrastinator. Larry is the second guesser. Adam is along for the ride.

I agree with the assessment of Larry and Adam, but Edge’s version of productivity seems to be going over the same thing over and over again and working it into the ground. Bono seems much more inclined to say “this is great, let’s release it,” before Edge says it’s not ready yet and we get 2 more years of studio tinkering.

 

[DomCobb]

I agree with the assessment of Larry and Adam, but Edge’s version of productivity seems to be going over the same thing over and over again and working it into the ground. Bono seems much more inclined to say “this is great, let’s release it,” before Edge says it’s not ready yet and we get 2 more years of studio tinkering.

I think ultimately they're all tinkerers to some degree. Bono himself has moments of "it's not ready, it's not done." Still re-writing songs 40 years later, the story of how he almost pulled Iris off of SOI, etc.

 

[ferball415]

I agree with the assessment of Larry and Adam, but Edge’s version of productivity seems to be going over the same thing over and over again and working it into the ground. Bono seems much more inclined to say “this is great, let’s release it,” before Edge says it’s not ready yet and we get 2 more years of studio tinkering.

Agreed, but I think Bono is just as if not more preoccupied with the public’s (not to mention critics’) “perception” as Edge. Larry seems to be fairly conservative creatively, most famously at Hansa.

It’s interesting how much control Adam has apparently voluntarily conceded, just given how much of a shit he clearly gave in the earliest days (and you can see it on his face then, I feel). I would guess he probably feels very relieved to have defeated whatever personal demons he had 30 or so years ago and just views being in their sixth decade as garbage time (in the sports sense).

 

[Irvine511]

And Adam? He’s here when we call him, smiling.”

"The Luckiest Man in the World" is actually Adam.

 

[ferball415]

"The Luckiest Man in the World" is actually Adam.

Love him dearly but can’t deny that it’s the cushiest-gig-on-Earth-within-the-cushiest-gig-on-Earth.

High school counselor: “Have you thought about going into being-Adam Clayton?”

 

[Scorpionac]

I really like Country Mile. It's cute, nice, and fun. It's a U2 song about going for a walk! They use the word "beseech" in the chorus

I do find the loping, stop-and-start drum pattern to be tired, though. I'll always think of it as the "Clocks" drum pattern. Probably the best U2 examples are Miracle Drug and Winter.

 

[ferball415]

I do find the loping, stop-and-start drum pattern to be tired, though. I'll always think of it as the "Clocks" drum pattern. Probably the best U2 examples are Miracle Drug and Winter.

Ahhh, but “Beautiful Day” is the “most-recent common ancestor” of them all.

 

[david]

I’m trying to enjoy some U2 in my backyard but..

 

[DeVaul]

Edge is the productive one. Bono is the procrastinator. Larry is the second guesser. Adam is along for the ride.

 

[lazarus]

"The Luckiest Man in the World" is actually Adam.

I mean, he was engaged to Naomi Campbell.

He also has the best hair in the band.

 

[ferball415]

I mean, he was engaged to Naomi Campbell.

He also has the best hair in the band.

the best hair about me!

(best part of that song, that very ‘90s U2 chord change back into the verse)

 

[womanfish]

They use the word "beseech" in the chorus

Just another reason for me to dislike this song

 

[womanfish]

10. All Because Of You 2. The original version isn't exactly my favorite, but this one's worse. Again - I don't notice any difference between this and the version that was released with The Complete U2, but that could be because I never really liked it so I never listened to it much.
--

It doesn't shock me that the outtakes from my least favorite U2 album weren't my favorite - but there were a few pleasant surprises in there.

I agree with you, as Bomb is my least favorite album as well. But, All Because of You is the perfect example of why version 2 is so much better than the Bomb version.

Listen to the first lines of the "proper" All Because. It encapsulates the core of why I don't like quite a few songs on this album. Not just lyrically, which is pretty poor on a good amount of songs, but the delivery!

The verses are so stiff and stilted. It's like he's reading them off a notecard.
The part 2 version is the exact opposite. Bono just rips into it, like Jagger at his most intense delivery.

Night and day (no pun) difference IMO.