maybe u2's downfall in the late 90s didn't really have anything to do with pop.

[U2Man]

something interesting i found on pitchfork:

At this point U2 is so omnipresent-- and Bono has so thoroughly ingratiated himself to the baby boomer power players in every field-- that it's hard to imagine them losing cultural relevance again, as they did in the late 1990s. They're always nearby in times of strife, ready to help broken cities and stunned nations heal with a dose of epic rock'n'roll. As long as there is calamity, U2 will remain relevant. Maybe that's why they fell off during Clinton's second term-- the West had forgotten what real trouble was all about, and there was nothing for U2 to push against.

discuss...

 

[indra]

So that's why Bono will talk to Bushie! It's good for his career. What a self-centered bastard!

 

[gman]

I think its more to do wi 1 album released in second half of 90s which did nothing special sales wise and a tour wrongly touted as a flop! But they bounced back regardless

 

[Z00rop@83]

i think pop was an awesome album...one of they're best imo although it didnt appeal to the masses....i dont think they flopped on the album but more so the way they went about promoting it and touring with it....

lose the fake muscle shirts, gas mask, kmart, and i think they woulda done fine !

u cant really blame non-hardcore fans for being like WTF is this !?!

 

[JCOSTER]

There was no downfall.

 

[U2Man]

there wasn't? an album that didn't sell half of what they had expected, a promotion tv show with a historically low amount of viewers, half-empty stadiums all over the u.s....

 

[MrPryck2U]

There was no downfall.

Exactly!

 

[U2Man]

pleeeease let's not argue about facts.

just look at the album sales figures for starters:

AB 17 Million
Pop 6 Million
ATYCLB 12 Million

pop was expected to be a major release and seller like ab and atyclb. it sold about 1/3 of achtung baby and 1/2 of atyclb. and yes, then there was popmart with half-empty stadiums.

 

[Alisaura]

There was no downfall.

Also exactly!

(Cue posts about how the stadiums weren't half-empty at all and that quote of McGuinnesses saying that Popmart made plenty of money until it went to S. America/Australia/everywhere outside the USA/Europe, and abot how U2 had balls back then, etc etc etc.)

 

[Alisaura]

pleeeease let's not argue about facts.

just look at the album sales figures for starters:

AB 17 Million
Pop 6 Million
ATYCLB 12 Million

An Australian interviewer mentioned the 6 million figure to Bono once, and Bono rather shortly corrected him, saying it was 7 million.

And in any case, financial facts and figures do not constitute a "downfall" in my book.

 

[U2Man]

if you cannot sell your records and concert tickets then you are experiencing a downfall in popularity as an artist.

 

[Alisaura]

Okay, if all you're worried about is popularity.

 

[U2Man]

thats what i meant by downfall.

 

[toscano]

yeah, like selling 7M albums is a "downfall"



Also, the tour didn't start and with the US, and regardless they were making the sam eamoun tof money upfront full or not, quite a coup....

"downfall....."

 

[U2Man]

yeah, like selling 7M albums is a "downfall"

 

[J_NP]

THERE WAS NO DOWNFALL

At least not outside the US

 

[U2Man]

god, this is getting annoying.

how do you explain these figures then:

AB 17 Million
Pop 6 Million
ATYCLB 12 Million

 

[toscano]

such a failure....

 

[CPTLCTYGOOFBALL]

THERE WAS NO DOWNFALL

At least not outside the US

Well there was definitely a slip in sales, and not just in the USA.
From "Peeling off those dollar bills", here's estimated UK sales for U2 albums.

1. The Joshua Tree : ~2,670,000 (2,665,553 as at 22nd Oct 2006)
2. Best of 80-90 (both versions) : ~1,925,000 (1,919,678 as at Sat 25th Nov 2006)
3. Rattle & Hum : ~1,400,000 (~1.23m by Oct '94)
4. Achtung Baby : ~1,350,000 (1.13m by Jan '98)
5. UABRS : ~1,300,000 (3xP by April 1987 & ~1.1m by end of '80's)
6. HTDAAB : ~1,240,000 (1.2m by end of 2005)
7. ATYCLB : ~1,130,000 (March 12th 2005 edition of Musicweek said 1,083,169 & has since done ok in top 100/200)
8. The Unforgettable Fire : ~890,000 (~810k by end of '80's)
9. War : ~830,000 (~750k by end of '80's)
10. Best of 90-00 (both versions) : ~875,000 (871,765 as at Sat 25th Nov 2006)
11. U218 Singles : ~620,000
12. Zooropa : ~600,000 (~500k in '93)
13. Pop : ~450,000 (370k in '97)
14. October : ~400,000
15. Boy : ~300,000
16. WAIA : ~150,000

I know that the Popmart tour in the US did much worse than the ROW, but most album estimates I've seen, whether it's for America or not show a decline of sales for Pop.

 

[Chizip]

pleeeease let's not argue about facts.

just look at the album sales figures for starters:

AB 17 Million
Pop 6 Million
ATYCLB 12 Million

pop was expected to be a major release and seller like ab and atyclb. it sold about 1/3 of achtung baby and 1/2 of atyclb. and yes, then there was popmart with half-empty stadiums.

they would have played half empty stadiums in the smaller markets around the US for the last couple tours too. playing smaller venues doesnt mean youre more successful

 

[U2Man]

they would have played half empty stadiums in the smaller markets around the US for the last couple tours too. playing smaller venues doesnt mean youre more successful

no, but selling more albums does.

the half-empty stadiums prove that u2 had lost some of the momentum they had gathered when they were at their peak during zoo-tv. that tour was so successful, they thought they could sell out big stadiums in the u.s. again.

 

[JCOSTER]

Exactly!

Thank you,

 

[JCOSTER]

Also exactly!

(Cue posts about how the stadiums weren't half-empty at all and that quote of McGuinnesses saying that Popmart made plenty of money until it went to S. America/Australia/everywhere outside the USA/Europe, and abot how U2 had balls back then, etc etc etc.)

and thank you too

 

[JCOSTER]

THERE WAS NO DOWNFALL

At least not outside the US

and thank you too

 

[JCOSTER]

such a failure....

Yup...definately a downfall.

 

[CPTLCTYGOOFBALL]

Well there was definitely a slip in sales, and not just in the USA.
From "Peeling off those dollar bills", here's estimated UK sales for U2 albums.

1. The Joshua Tree : ~2,670,000 (2,665,553 as at 22nd Oct 2006)
2. Best of 80-90 (both versions) : ~1,925,000 (1,919,678 as at Sat 25th Nov 2006)
3. Rattle & Hum : ~1,400,000 (~1.23m by Oct '94)
4. Achtung Baby : ~1,350,000 (1.13m by Jan '98)
5. UABRS : ~1,300,000 (3xP by April 1987 & ~1.1m by end of '80's)
6. HTDAAB : ~1,240,000 (1.2m by end of 2005)
7. ATYCLB : ~1,130,000 (March 12th 2005 edition of Musicweek said 1,083,169 & has since done ok in top 100/200)
8. The Unforgettable Fire : ~890,000 (~810k by end of '80's)
9. War : ~830,000 (~750k by end of '80's)
10. Best of 90-00 (both versions) : ~875,000 (871,765 as at Sat 25th Nov 2006)
11. U218 Singles : ~620,000
12. Zooropa : ~600,000 (~500k in '93)
13. Pop : ~450,000 (370k in '97)
14. October : ~400,000
15. Boy : ~300,000
16. WAIA : ~150,000

.

Actually the drop in sales from AB to Pop are almost exactly the same in the UK as the US, percentage wise. using the figures above and the ones U2man posted for the US

Is the whole "America didn't get Pop" thing a myth?

 

[U2Man]

JCOSTER, quoting post after post that provides no evidence whatsoever to back up your claim doesnt prove anything.

the picture toscano posted shows a huge crowd at a concert in italy. do you not think that u2 could gather a crowd at the same size during ZOO-TV?

Why not take a look at the figures that have been posted in this thread? Numbers don't lie.

 

[silvrlvr]

According to Billboard, the best selling albums in the late 1990s were:

1997: Shania Twain 20 million/Backstreet Boys 14 million
1998: Garth Brooks 20 million/Kid Rock 11 million
1999: Britney Spears 16 million/Santana 15 million

That's where music was at that point in time.

Fast-forward to 2006: the best-selling artist was Carrie Underwood. Her album, which actually came out in November 2005, has sold 4.75 million copies to date.

In the context of the 1990s, Pop was not a success. But it would have outsold Carrie last year.

 

[phillyfan26]

Pop wasn't finished. Plain and simple. They knew it too.

 

[JCOSTER]

JCOSTER, quoting post after post that provides no evidence whatsoever to back up your claim doesnt prove anything.

the picture toscano posted shows a huge crowd at a concert in italy. do you not think that u2 could gather a crowd at the same size during ZOO-TV?

Why not take a look at the figures that have been posted in this thread? Numbers don't lie.

It showed there are people who agreed with me. I see the figures and I was also at a few sold out POP shows in stadiums.

I still think POP was awesome and without it there wouldn't be some of those beautiful songs, If God Will Send His Angels, Please, Do You Feel Loved etc. Just because it had the lowest sales out of U2's catalog doesn't mean it was a downfall.

A downfall is when your record sells so lousy that the record label drops you!