Having a Friend Issue

[JCOSTER]

My friend is my sons bestfriends mother. After the boys got close in kindergarten so did we. This has been for about 5 years now.
Last week she had a party for her son. It was an 11th birthday/Halloween party. The whole 6th grade was invited which was 56 kids. The the kids baseball team was invited which is another 14 kids. 70 kids in total. The live in a court so the party was outside and they made hamburgers and hotdogs, had a dj and played various games to win small prizes.

I had the notion that the party was not just for the birthday and halloween but because my sons friend was running for student council president. How convenient was it to have a party on Friday and vote on Monday?

I really like this family and glad my son is friends with them. But in one weekend our moral commons went out the window.

To invite 70 kids to a party for an 11 year old was IMO ridiculous.
Everyone showed which meant the kid recieved 70 presents.
My son told me he recieved around $800.00 in cash and gift cards. To me that was just pure glutney.
Then to do all this so your kid could be Student Council President of an elementry school?
The funny thing is the voting ended in a tie. So now there are 2 presidents and 2 vice presidents.

But, am I missing something here? Am I being a little to cynical or rightess? I am having a little difficulty with looking at my friend in the same way I did before. Is this where her priorities are?

I'm so about the whole thing.

I did however, tell my son that if I ever did anything like that (which I wouldn't) that he would donate some of the gifts recieved. What 11 year old needs 70 gifts?

And this friend is a strong supporter of my efforts with Africa causes. Did she miss something along the way?

 

[U2isthebest]

It sounds to me (and I shouldn't be judging, especially since I don't know her) that it's a typical case of a mother wanting to make sure her child is shielded from disappointment and loss. Unfortunately, these kids are usually in for a rude awakening when they become adults and realize the world doesn't always give them everything they want. I don't think your friend is a bad person; I think she's a great person that doesn't realize how big a disservice she might be doing her kids. There are some parents, and I speak from experience with them, that have make sure their kids are always the best in everything. They think it reflects badly on them as parents if they don't. It's twisted thinking, but unfortunately, it's common.

 

[corianderstem]

As a non-mom, take my comments with a grain of salt.

I think the gifts/presents thing is outrageous. Maybe the mom could have put something into the invite about keeping the gifts small, or gifts not required, especially since the whole class was invited. She could have anticipated an overload of gifts. On the other hand, who wants to tell their 11 year old they might not be getting many presents at their party? But another option would be, like you said, to donate some of them to kids less fortunate.

As for the class president thing, maybe it was coincidental, maybe not. If it was a birthday party, he can't help it that his birthday falls around the election and Halloween, can he? And inviting an entire class isn't that uncommon, I don't think. I think more people do that these days so there aren't hard feelings when kids aren't invited - which is a nice gesture, I think. And if they have the means to have a big party, good on them.

 

[Liesje]

Sounds like a mom trying to live vicariously through her child. Phil and I saw this a LOT when he coached gymnastics. One part of his job was running birthday parties where people rented out the gym for their kids. I won't even go there....Anyway, I guess the number might be necessary b/c of the class and the team. I had one birthday party, in 4th grade, and my mom said I had to invite ALL of the girls in my class or it wouldn't be fair. Now that was only 7 or 8 people. If I had a large class, I probably would not have been allowed to have that party! If I were your friend I would've said "no gifts".

 

[JCOSTER]

Thanks for your input guys, it helps!

He still would have gotten presents from his close friends, its not like he wasn't going to get any.

My kids want the PS3 soo badly. They already have PS2. I have told them its not that I can't buy it for them, I won't. I think $400 or more is ridiculous on a game system. Its just the principle of the whole matter.

 

[corianderstem]

I think $400 or more is ridiculous on a game system. Its just the principle of the whole matter.

I'm with you on that.

Or would be if I, you know, had kids.

 

[gvox]

As a father of two, I don't see much wrong with it, personally. My son plays on two rep teams and is very popular within not only his grade (and in each grade there are 3 classes of 30 or so kids) but the next two up, including kids from other schools. If we were to have an outdoor bbq/party for him, it could surpass 70 kids, quite easily. And no matter what you tell people to bring, in some cultures the parents would not dream of sending their kid to a bday party with a small (or even no!) gift, they just wouldn't do it. So I don't know if I fault them at all really.

I'm just cringing at what's going to go down on my son's 13th. I think it's going to be out of control, and we kindof owe it to him after being away on vacation for his last 4 or 5 birthdays

 

[MrPryck2U]

Well if you crunch the numbers, here are the results:
70 guests- $800.00

Roughly, $11.43 per guest.

Still, 70 guests? Good gravy.

 

[JCOSTER]

I guess the part I'm having a problem with is the amount of gifts. I know he also plans on keeping all of it. This kid also wants for nothing if you know what I mean.

 

[MrPryck2U]

Right, it's not like he needs the gifts. It does kind of come off as tacky.

 

[corianderstem]

If nothing else, from what you've described, the kid does sound spoiled.

But all that aside, that doesn't necessarily mean she's not honestly interested in supporting the Africa causes you mention.

I mean, you don't think Bono's a hypocrite because he supports those causes but still lives rich, right?

 

[gvox]

I dunno, and not trying to be contrary or argumentative..its something I think about as a parent...my point is: who cares? what differece does it make to me? To me there would be a greater danger in letting my kids exhibit jealousy and envy (or worse still see it manifest in me) over the whole thing than simply letting them know that it's great when people can enjoy nice things in abundance, tempered with a comment like: but its not the be all and end all. Who are we to judge whether a kid needed it at all or not? Just seems wrong.

I guess because I grew up on the poverty level, I've never understood being conservative or austere on priniciple. Unless it causes the family hardship, I see zero value in not giving kids the very best you can, including that $400 PS3. It's not a bad lesson about the real world, I don't buy that. If anything it teaches them that people who work hard (ie us, their parents) can enjoy nice things and shouldn't feel sorry for that. Denying them stuff just because it seems outrageous to pay x amount for an item to me just teaches them to be even more materialistic because they'll grow up always thinking that life might have been better if only they had that PS3 etc. Getting nice things doesn't necessarily teach kids that life depends on them, if anything it teaches them fairly quickly that all the nice things in the world don't change much about your life at all.

After all, yeah it's $400 and yeah it's steep but then again that pales in comparison to the loot I've dropped on my U2 obsession...that's like two shows! lol.....and yeah so it's every 3 or 4 years or so...but do we stop buying a new car or a new suit every 3 or 4 years just because the one we have still works? Times change, kids like to stay on top of technology, it's only fair.

(laughing as i write this becausee we still "only" have a PS2 and an Xbox )

 

[gvox]

I mean, you don't think Bono's a hypocrite because he supports those causes but still lives rich, right?

That is an amazing point, and the fact that she is involved in those causes and yet seems to be living well is probably evidence that they're being blessed. So let them be blessed! More power to them!

 

[indra]

but do we stop buying a new car or a new suit every 3 or 4 years just because the one we have still works?

Yes, many of us do.

 

[corianderstem]

(Never mind, nothing to see here. )

 

[Lila64]

Buying kids everything they want certainly doesn't teach them anything, even if you have the money to do so. But hey, that's just me.

As for the party, I suppose if you have the money and ability to invite 70+ kids to a party, so be it. Obviously the kid was gonna make out like a bandit, because I'm sure all 70 brought a gift. For me, I'd limit the number of kids that my daughter could invite, which we've done in the past. We don't have the money or place to do. Even if we did, I don't think I'd say 'hey, invite everyone you know'. Generally you are probably feeding kids lunch or dinner, which for 70 kids, is a pretty penny, not to mention cake. And what about party favors, decorations? Did they hire a DJ too? Clown? Magician? Where does it end? Is the mother/father trying to keep up with the Jones'?

 

[gvox]

That's great! But youve clearly missed the point.

(btw, my van is almost 6 years old )

edit:wasn't referring to your comments lila

 

[Lila64]

Who are we to judge whether a kid needed it at all or not? Just seems wrong.

We are their parents. We're supposed to be looking out for their best interest

After all, yeah it's $400 and yeah it's steep but then again that pales in comparison to the loot I've dropped on my U2 obsession...that's like two shows! lol.....and yeah so it's every 3 or 4 years or so...but do we stop buying a new car or a new suit every 3 or 4 years just because the one we have still works? Times change, kids like to stay on top of technology, it's only fair.

(laughing as i write this becausee we still "only" have a PS2 and an Xbox )

Um yeah, my rule is if it ain't broke....don't fix it. I don't need to have the hottest newest technology, etc.. If my car lasts 10 years, so be it. I'll own it til it's falling apart. Long as it gets me from point A to point B, I'm good. I don't need the 'status symbol'. And I'd be the same even if I had money and could afford to buy the next hottest thing.

And I think you mentioned being away for your kids' last few birthdays or something (possibly before the edit). I would never feel guilted into buying something for anyone. We do happen to have a PS2 I think, but Maddy got it 2 Christmas' ago, after wanting it for a long time, even though her friends had it. And we've got no plans to buy an XBox, Wii or anything else of that nature. I'm trying to teach her that material things are not important & that's not what will be bring you happiness. She's much rather donate to a cause if she could then just keep piling on the "things". And by the way, last Christmas' tangible gifts were incredibly minimal. She knew well in advance that our weekend (splurge) trip to Hawaii to see U2 was both of ours' Christmas present. And what a night that turned out to be

\sorry for the hijacking JC

 

[Lila64]

That's great! But youve clearly missed the point.

(btw, my van is almost 6 years old )

What point have I missed? That if you can afford to buy your kids everything they want, then go ahead and do so?

 

[indra]

What point have I missed? That if you can afford to buy your kids everything they want, then go ahead and do so?

I think his comment might have been aimed at me, but your comment encompassed the same point mine did about cars (and various other products too).

That's great! But youve clearly missed the point.

(btw, my van is almost 6 years old )

Oh I got your point. I disagree with it and think you are wrong, but I got it.

(and big whoop on having a six year old van)

 

[gvox]

We are their parents. We're supposed to be looking out for their best interest

Well then we should look out for our own kid's best interests then, by all means! Outside us choosing who our kids associate with, it's none of our business how other parents dote or don't dote on their own kids. Mind you, I'd call it a pretty flimsy reason to not let my kid hang with another kid just because his parents *seem to spoil him.

Um yeah, my rule is if it ain't broke....don't fix it. I don't need to have the hottest newest technology, etc.. If my car lasts 10 years, so be it. I'll own it til it's falling apart. Long as it gets me from point A to point B, I'm good. I don't need the 'status symbol'. And I'd be the same even if I had money and could afford to buy the next hottest thing.

Again, that's great, that's your choice to make. You know what? If I was well off I probably WOULD upgrade the family van to one with a sunroof and the rear swivel seats because that would be nice to have for long trips. So what? You waiting longer than me to upgrade your vehicle means nothing about the quality of our individual characters or whether or not my kids are being raised properly. If anything, any negative sentiment would demonstrate petty jelousy and would be plain silly.

And I think you mentioned being away for your kids' last few birthdays or something (possibly before the edit). I would never feel guilted into buying something for anyone.

What I meant to say was that OUR FAMILY had been away during the week of my son's birthday for the last 5 years or so and as such he had't really had a proper party with his schoolmates/teammates/etc. And if I so chose on his 13th to throw him a big splash, of what right would it be of ANYONE's to judge that? I'm not being guilted into anything, I'm giving him a party that he didn't get for a while, and damn it's gonna feel great!

 

[gvox]

I think his comment might have been aimed at me, but your comment encompassed the same point mine did about cars (and various other products too).



Oh I got your point. I disagree with it and think you are wrong, but I got it.

(and big whoop on having a six year old van)

still wondering what exactly you are bringing to this discussion except your fixation on my example. You did totally miss the point, and that is that it's none of anyone's business who buys what and when.

 

[gvox]

What point have I missed? That if you can afford to buy your kids everything they want, then go ahead and do so?

totally wasnt addressing you there

No, I'm not saying buy them everything they want. But, if a person has means to, to NOT buy their kid something that the kid really wants and makes a case for, just on principle, seems ridiculous to me and I disagree that it teaches them anything but that dad arbitrarily makes spending decisions that don't make alot of sense or are rooted in fairness (in the context of someone like me with a U2 obsession LOL)

 

[gvox]

Anyways, this is JC's thread. It's also zoo confessionals. Unless people post in ZC looking for some sort of approval or placation, I think it stands to reason that people might weigh in, and sometimes not necessarily be something that person wanted to hear, but maybe they needed to hear it. To be honest, I don't know you JC, but from your other posts I've found you to be a warm friendly and I thought very tolerant non-judgemental person. Therefore I was a bit surprised by your initial post, it seemed very jealous and envious. THAT"S OK, we all feel that way from time to time I'm sure. Your friend has been your friend for way more good reasons than bad, from your account, and I couldn't for some reason not weigh in and express how unfortunate it would be to lose a friend - it did seem like you were questioning whether or not to keep the friendship - just because, at worst, they showed less taste or tact than you might have in the extravagance of a single party. Different strokes for different folks. Do you see what I mean?

 

[Lila64]

Well then we should look out for our own kid's best interests then, by all means! Outside us choosing who our kids associate with, it's none of our business how other parents dote or don't dote on their own kids. Mind you, I'd call it a pretty flimsy reason to not let my kid hang with another kid just because his parents *seem to spoil him.




Again, that's great, that's your choice to make. You know what? If I was well off I probably WOULD upgrade the family van to one with a sunroof and the rear swivel seats because that would be nice to have for long trips. So what? You waiting longer than me to upgrade your vehicle means nothing about the quality of our individual characters or whether or not my kids are being raised properly. If anything, any negative sentiment would demonstrate petty jelousy and would be plain silly.


What I meant to say was that OUR FAMILY had been away during the week of my son's birthday for the last 5 years or so and as such he had't really had a proper party with his schoolmates/teammates/etc. And if I so chose on his 13th to throw him a big splash, of what right would it be of ANYONE's to judge that? I'm not being guilted into anything, I'm giving him a party that he didn't get for a while, and damn it's gonna feel great!

Hey, if you want to give your son a big party, go for it
I never said you shouldn't. Sounds like you want to make up for the parties he's missed out on over the years.

And no, I'm not jealous or envious of you or what car you have or what gadget you own. I'd like to think I'm not that materialistic. I don't upgrade my car, tv, computer, whatever because what I have works and is good enough for me. I don't see the point, especially when one (me) cannot afford to, and I wouldn't act differently even if I could afford to do so. Society just seems to discard last weeks gadget when something new comes out. Wonder how many cellphones are in garbage dumps, not to mention other "disposable" items.

I'm probably not stating what I want to say clearly, so maybe I should just leave it be.

JC's original post seemed like she thought it was odd that this person who seemed to care about similar things (ie, Africa) as she did would go out and have this extravagant party for 70 kids (and who knows how many couldn't make it). I would think so too. But, we don't know the circumstances, if any, behind the woman's intentions. Maybe she wanted to impress, give the kid what he wanted or what SHE wanted, the election timing, etc. And 13 being a rite of passage to some. I'm guessing the kid isn't Jewish. Not that there's anything wrong with that

 

[gvox]

I hear you. When I spoke of jealousy and envy I wasnt referring to you or anyone in particular, but more "us" as parents. Sorry if it came off that way.

Sometimes irony has to be as cruel as can be, tonight as a punishment I had to deny my kid from something we were going to do together, something that I know he was looking forward to, and the opportunity to do it again will likely never come. I don't know if he even realized how much it hurt to do that, but I know that I can't allow what happened to go unpunished, and I don't believe in beatings. Sometimes being a parent is so hard.

 

[Lila64]

 

[JCOSTER]

Anyways, this is JC's thread. It's also zoo confessionals. Unless people post in ZC looking for some sort of approval or placation, I think it stands to reason that people might weigh in, and sometimes not necessarily be something that person wanted to hear, but maybe they needed to hear it. To be honest, I don't know you JC, but from your other posts I've found you to be a warm friendly and I thought very tolerant non-judgemental person. Therefore I was a bit surprised by your initial post, it seemed very jealous and envious. THAT"S OK, we all feel that way from time to time I'm sure. Your friend has been your friend for way more good reasons than bad, from your account, and I couldn't for some reason not weigh in and express how unfortunate it would be to lose a friend - it did seem like you were questioning whether or not to keep the friendship - just because, at worst, they showed less taste or tact than you might have in the extravagance of a single party. Different strokes for different folks. Do you see what I mean?

I am more upset with myself that I was cynical in the very onset thinking that she might have this party because her son was running for student council pres. As it turned out it was part of the reason and he is only 11. I am not envious in any way I just didn't get the enormity of the whole gala.

I can give my kid the same exact thing. I just choose not to. I told my son who was turning 8 he could invite 10 friends to a Dave & Busters party. He wanted to invite his whole class...I simply explained that he doesn't need the presents that he will get whatever he desires pretty much from family and friends. Later on he agreed.

My older son who is 11 didn't understand it either. He wasn't jealous either. He knows I could do the same but just wouldn't.
Believe me I like nice things too, but here is an example; my husband wanted to be me a diamond ring 3 stone for our 25 years of being together...I told no thank you I really don't need nor did I want him to spend the money. Thats just me.

BTW: I grew up poor too. It was just me and my mom the first 8 years of my life. We lived in Brooklyn in a 2 room apartment. My grandparents watched me while my mom went to work. My father left her pregnant with me. She was a single mom in the 60's. I remember her sacraficing alot for me including food. I would eat chicken and beef for dinner while she made herself pancakes or a peanut butter and Jelly sandwhich. I know what its like to have 0 and what its like to be able to be stable.

I really appreciate everyones input and I do see it in a different way. I guess she can do the party/gifts and still be supportive.

sorry for the rant.

 

[Liesje]

My cousin is a spoiled rotten brat and if I had kids I probably would rather they hang out with someone else. He's so spoiled, my uncle has totally ruined his childhood. All this kid cares about is hoarding money and getting "stuff". I used to babysit them and even when he was like 6 he would be taking out his "allowance" jar and counting hundreds of bills. Now he has a lot of trouble making friends, he doesn't really fit in anywhere b/c no one ever taught him how to play games or have fun with other kids. The only social skill he has is asking someone if they want to trade iPods for a while or play Halo 3. I love him and I know it's not his fault, but he has one of the most shallow personalities of anyone I know and no grasp of reality.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

My cousin is a spoiled rotten brat and if I had kids I probably would rather they hang out with someone else. He's so spoiled, my uncle has totally ruined his childhood. All this kid cares about is hoarding money and getting "stuff". I used to babysit them and even when he was like 6 he would be taking out his "allowance" jar and counting hundreds of bills. Now he has a lot of trouble making friends, he doesn't really fit in anywhere b/c no one ever taught him how to play games or have fun with other kids. The only social skill he has is asking someone if they want to trade iPods for a while or play Halo 3. I love him and I know it's not his fault, but he has one of the most shallow personalities of anyone I know and no grasp of reality.

And that's why kids should not be spoiled. Just my personal opinion, and having that opinion doesn't mean it comes from jealousy or envy. Some parents can manage to balance material things in abundance with the sorts of messages that convey that material things aren't what matter, some can't. Some use them as a substitute for other things, and some are doing over the top parties and other things for reasons that have nothing to do with their kids and everything to do with them. To deny that is just not credible, in my humble opinion.