Foreign Professors In College

[namkcuR]

This quarter I have classes taught by a Chinese woman and a Russian man. These people might as well be right off the damn boat. Thick accents, only about 50% fluent in English. You have to pay double attention to every word to get the gist of what they are TRYING to say. And the thing is, these people KNOW that they have thick accents and are only 50% fluent, so they get self-conscious and nervous and they stutter a bit and repeat themselves. Why do universities hire people who can't fucking speak the language? Oh wait, I know why. According to my father, who happens to be a professor(not at my college)....it's because they're trying to create the illusion that they're a better university than they are by flooding their faculty/staff with foreigners.

And it's not as though I can drop these classes. I HAVE to take them for my degree, and there is only one section for each being taught this quarter.

GODDAMN.

Anyone else ever experienced the frustration of taking a college course taught by a person who can't speak English at the level necessary to make the course mean anything?

 

[Zoobaby14]

Not in college but at my school we have teachers from India.

It doesnt bother me where people come from as long as i can understand them.

they Indian teachers at my school cant speak a word of English and the ones that can no one can understand them.

 

[Liesje]

I've had this before on two occasions. One was Human Resources Management, taught by a native Tanzanian with a VERY thick accent. If you check his Rate My Professor stats, he's getting a lot of frowny faces because not only can kids not understand him, but the way he communicates in general isn't as accepted here. For example, he tells lots of stories and analogies to make a point, rather than just defining what he's talking about. He often explains one simple thing five ways. I did well in his class, but he was the prof that took us to Tanzania, so I'd already had a LOT of time getting used to his accent and communication style. I can see how frustrating it would have been for others, though. Luckily he didn't really take attendance or do anything to count participation grades, so the annoyed people could just skip.

The other prof taught my lower level Econ course. He's from Egypt and speaks Arabic. He's the biggest boned man I've ever met; his hands are HUGE! But he likes to joke about himself, so the first day of class he said "I am So-and-So. You are probably thinking, 'Oh my God, he is sooooo big and soooo Egyptian and I cannot understand him'. If this is true, you may leave right now and I will not be offended." No one left. The class sucked large object, but he's a really cool guy with an amazing life story (he was an Olympic caliber athlete but has had 13 knee surgeries and he somehow was kicked out of Egypt for something political, but we are all too polite to ask).

How does your uni decide who stays and who goes? At the end of every class, any prof who is not already tenured gives a survey to their class and we give the administration feedback regarding the prof's performance. Profs have been disciplined and fired because of student feedback. The Board of Trustees takes them seriously, as well as the amount of out-of-class research and publication profs are expected to do. The nice thing about a private college is that student tuition is used for paying prof's salaries, so if we're not happy, they are bye bye

 

[redhotswami]

TAccording to my father, who happens to be a professor(not at my college)....it's because they're trying to create the illusion that they're a better university than they are by flooding their faculty/staff with foreigners.

I can see why some people would be upset about having difficulty communicating with one's professors. But, I'm sorry, this comment just really rubs me the wrong way.

 

[Liesje]

Re: Re: Foreign Professors In College

I can see why some people would be upset about having difficulty communicating with one's professors. But, I'm sorry, this comment just really rubs me the wrong way.

Yeah, no one really learns by just surrounding themselves with what they feel comfortable with. If it got to the point where I was really having trouble getting the lecture info, I'd arrange to compare notes w/ a classmate or talk to the tutor or TA for that section.

Are these people actual professors, or possibly grad students teaching the lower level or survey courses? It does seem weird that the school would hire actual professors that not only were not fluent, but were nervous and self-conscious in front of class. However, I don't see anything wrong with schools trying to diversify, as long as the profs are qualified.

 

[U2democrat]

I have a hard enough time understanding math from an American fluent in English, but fall semester freshman year at 8am I had stats with a professor from china, pretty much all the english she knew was stats terms


Thankfully she was easy and went over the material thoroughly so I managed to squeak out an A in that class (my first A in math I do believe).

 

[Laura M]

Re: Re: Re: Foreign Professors In College

It does seem weird that the school would hire actual professors that not only were not fluent, but were nervous and self-conscious in front of class.

Yeah. What university would employ anyone who they didn't think was capable of teaching (regardless of the language issue) the subject?

I spent 8 months in schools listening to people whine about my accent. It got tiring, and was offensive, hearing people say I couldn't speak my own language or Spanish because I had an accent and then got the boyfriend to repeat what I was saying to them because they understood him better. The problem was they just wouldn't listen and try and get used to the accent, complaining is much easier for some people. I'd rather they simply took the time to ask me to repeat something or write it down than complain I didn't speak English like they did on their tapes.

 

[BonoIsMyMuse]

Re: Re: Foreign Professors In College

I can see why some people would be upset about having difficulty communicating with one's professors. But, I'm sorry, this comment just really rubs me the wrong way.

It does me, too. Universities hire the best qualified candidates. I hate to say it (and this isn't directed at you, namkcuR), many students are too lazy and impatient to listen just a little more closely, which is often all they'd need to do to understand a non-native speaker of English.

Put yourself in the professor's shoes: you love math or literature or science enough to devote your entire life to it, even if that means moving to another country in order to teach it. You're in a room filled with students whose primary language is English, and you know that they're going to be critical of any mistakes you make with the language. Wouldn't that make you nervous? If a professor is repeating him/herself, he/she wants to make sure you're getting the material.

I know it's frustrating, but I encourage you to try to be a little more patient. If you're having a hard time with the course material for any reason, get a tutor.

You live in a world where not everyone speaks English as their native language, and chances are you'll have to communicate with many other non-native speakers in your lifetime. Just because they don't speak English as perfectly as you do doesn't mean that what they have to say isn't important.

 

[cdisantis83]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Foreign Professors In College

Yeah. What university would employ anyone who they didn't think was capable of teaching (regardless of the language issue) the subject?

The answer to this is that research potential often takes precedence over teaching capabilities, especially at large state universities. People with the potential to bring in grant money or engage in cutting-edge research will often win out over people with more teaching experience, most notably in the sciences.

 

[MooMoo!]

I think, regardless as to whether theyre top of their league in a particular subject, they shouldnt employ teachers the students cant understand. Its not fair on students. If they cant understand them, how are they supposed to learn? There are things you need to go over with teachers and if the teacher lacks that ability then they really shouldnt be doing that job, at least in a country that speaks a different language to them.

The only situation where that may be acceptable is a language class. I mean, I have a hell of a time ordering food from take outs where foreign people work, so imagine trying to learn that way? At the very least, colleges etc. should put their teachers on a language class to make themselves more fluent.

 

[randhail]

Given how expensive college is, I don't think it's unreasonable to have professors that speak clearly in the students' native language. Clear speaking is more important in some classes than others - biochemistry and other science classes with a lot of odd names (NFKappa B anyone?) are perfect examples where not saying a name properly completely changes things. Courses are difficult enough as it is without throwing a language barrier in there too.

 

[anitram]

I've never had that issue with a professor. Graduate TA students, yes. But never a prof.

Sometimes I've noticed people have a tendency to go the "he doesn't speak English" route when somebody has an accent. Um, no, most of the time these people are perfectly fluent. It's pronunciation issues they have.

Universities don't hire people to staff their faculties with minorities for the hell of having minorities or foreigners. That comment also rubbed me the wrong way. Sometimes, though it has been my experience that foreign academics who are well known generate good grant money and the university has extra incentive to hire them or put them on tenure track. Even if their English is not perfect.

English is my third/fourth language. Sometimes you can notice my accent, sometimes you can't. Most people don't even bother learning a second one so I'm not too bothered by having an accent and speaking a handful.

 

[BVS]

What are we confessing here?

 

[Angela Harlem]

What are we confessing here?

no tolerance for someone with an accent?

geez, people. read laura's post a few times.

 

[sulawesigirl4]

As someone who has spent most of her life dealing with "foreigners" who don't "speak English" like a native, I tend to think that exposing yourself to accents and working at understanding is probably going to benefit you in the long run. The world is getting smaller and English is the lingua franca. But it won't sound like what you're used to. This is the future, and those who can learn to function in this paradigm are going to have an advantage. College life is supposed to give you tools for living.

 

[Laura M]

Put yourself in the professor's shoes: you love math or literature or science enough to devote your entire life to it, even if that means moving to another country in order to teach it. You're in a room filled with students whose primary language is English, and you know that they're going to be critical of any mistakes you make with the language. Wouldn't that make you nervous? If a professor is repeating him/herself, he/she wants to make sure you're getting the material.

I know it's frustrating, but I encourage you to try to be a little more patient. If you're having a hard time with the course material for any reason, get a tutor.

You live in a world where not everyone speaks English as their native language, and chances are you'll have to communicate with many other non-native speakers in your lifetime. Just because they don't speak English as perfectly as you do doesn't mean that what they have to say isn't important.

English speakers have it very easy. Don't people realise that they also have an accent that their tutor has to get used to and might not understand to begin with either. What about countries where students who don't have English as a native language, have English speaking tutors for a subject? I don't hear them complaining.

Teaching is hard enough already, the delightful bunch I had were always waiting to pounce on their teachers. If, God forbid, the foreign teacher left out a question mark you didn't hear the end of it for an entire class. Teaching when you're away from home, trying to adjust to a new culture and language is even harder. Give the tutor a break and instead of coming to insult them here why not just go and speak to them and explain your problem. If I thought that next year I'd have pupils who would insult me or my teaching on a message board or that teacher rating website I'd be livid and offended they didn't have the guts to explain something in person.

Do you speak another language, namkcur? Have you ever been to another country and tried speaking it? Maybe if you did you'd have a bit more understanding of what it's like for your prof. It can get pretty frustrating when people don't have the patience or decency to try and understand you. I'm never going to speak French or Spanish like a native but I know what things I can and can't say. I was never offended when I met someone and they asked me to repeat something, but as soon as they started ranting on about an accent and that I couldn't speak their language I felt like it was more an issue of having to deal with someone foreign. As soon as I had opened my trap they were already trying to correct me.

 

[MissVelvetDress_75]

I have a Dutch professor and a professor from Africa and I have zero problems understanding them at all.

 

[onebloodonelife]

I have a professor right now from South Korea, and yes, she was hard to understand at first, but after a week or two, it wasn't an issue. She does have some funny catch phrases. And, it's a chemistry class, so I have to listen a bit closer because she pronounces terms a little differently, but it's not a bad thing at all.

On the flip side, I went to Costa Rica last summer, and I can say that it's so uncomfortable to be non-fluent in the majority language. I tried to speak, but after my family's grandmother said to me, "You speak very little Spanish", I just became a mute and observed. In certain ways, I think it was better for me to sit back and watch for once.

I can't even imagine what it's like for foreign professors to come to America, especially since we aren't known for being the most accepting of cultures. I applaud them for even attempting.

 

[blueeyedgirl]

Nice post Laura

 

[shart1780]

I've had this problem too. I had a teacher from some middle Eastern country ( I can't remember. It was a few years ago) and hardly anyone could understand her. I got to the point where I could KIND OF get what she was saying, but it still wasn't adequate. She was an amazing plant scientist with GREAT credentials, but she simply could not communicate. Eventually there was a schedule conflict with her other class and she had to find a substitute to teach us (man he was hard).

I do think they hired her for her amazing credentials. She was basically a plant science genius. Too bad she couldn't communicate. She had to spend so much time going over the work and getting us to explain that the material went super slow and we had to have open book tests. Now, I wasn't complaining about that, but it's obvious the college shouldn't hire people like this.

I recommend talking to the dean about it.

 

[Utoo]

I had a few TAs in college that had a hard time with English and a lot of people got upset...writing to the school paper and the deans. I also had a few professors in med school that had heavy accents and a few of my friends bitched just as heavily.

The fact of the matter is that you need to get over it.

The more you fuss about not understanding, the less you'll be able to understand.

Here's why: You can make the excuse that you need to learn the material and the language barrier is impeding your learning. But guess what---when you graduate, who's to say that your boss isn't going to have just as heavy of an accent or just as much trouble with English as this professor? In that case, you're going to have to figure out some way to understand what he/she's saying so that you can do your job. If you can't and you can't do your job, it's you who gets fired, not the guy with the accent.

What killed me was students' complaints about professors' accents in med school. They'd say that they couldn't learn medicine well when they couldn't understand the prof. Well guess what----there's a HIGH chance that as a doctor, you're going to encounter hundreds of people with heavy accents as your patients. You'd better be able to keep your mind open and learn from what they have to tell you about their illness & life, or else you'll be practicing some shitty-ass medicine.

My advice? Suck it up and recognize it as an opportunity to better interact with people who aren't from whitebread middle America.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

my professor for public speaking in college had a thick african accent, ironicly enough. he was quite good, though. one of the best profs i ever had.

i had a different "prof," also with a thick african accent, for racquetball (yes i took racquetball in college), who was part of some sort of professor exchange program. oh man that was rough... thick accents and echoey racquetball courts don't mix well. i did kick her ass on my "final" though, so that's a plus.

there was a prof from china, part of the same exchange program, who was my prof for intermediate and advanced basketball (and they say only top flight d1 athletes take filler courses). i ended up teaching the class half the time because he had noooo clue what was going on.

frankly, it doesn't matter... you're going to come across people with all sorts of accents in your life, best to get used to it. as long as the syllabus is put together in a coherent and understandable way, college profs are pretty over-rated... you can basicaly teach yourself the coursework.

 

[annie_vox]

I have a Spanish professor and a Brazilian one. I used to have a japanese one on my first year...
The spanish is one of my favourites ever... his ways with animals are just great... You can see his passion just by listening to his classes... at the begining it was a little difficult to understand him because of his accent... now there's no problem at all

 

[Allanah]

I had a few TAs in college that had a hard time with English and a lot of people got upset...writing to the school paper and the deans. I also had a few professors in med school that had heavy accents and a few of my friends bitched just as heavily.

The fact of the matter is that you need to get over it.

If you're talking about lazy students who don't like listening to someone with an accent, then I agree. I think, however, that namukcuR's original post took issue with professors who aren't even fluent in the language in which they are teaching. That is a legitimate problem. If you're paying a ton of money to go to college, I don't think it's too much to ask that a professor be able to properly communicate with their students. Public speaking is part of the job description, and they should be able to do it competently.

I've had many foreign professors throughout college, and the only time I had a difficult-to-understand professor was in a lab class, so it wasn't really an issue. I just read the instructions in our workbook. Had he been teaching something like math, it would have been a major issue. Some subjects are incredibly difficult to learn straight from a textbook.

On the flip side, what about a foreign student at an English-speaking university? If she complained about not being to understand her professors or her textbooks because her English wasn't fluent, would you tell her professors to "get over it" and be more open-minded?

The more you fuss about not understanding, the less you'll be able to understand.

Here's why: You can make the excuse that you need to learn the material and the language barrier is impeding your learning.

But guess what---when you graduate, who's to say that your boss isn't going to have just as heavy of an accent or just as much trouble with English as this professor? In that case, you're going to have to figure out some way to understand what he/she's saying so that you can do your job. If you can't and you can't do your job, it's you who gets fired, not the guy with the accent.

I don't think that's a fair comparison. At school, you're paying for a service -- in this case, you are paying to learn, and it's the university's job to give you the tools to do so. That includes professors who can properly communicate with their students. If you take a job with a difficult-to-understand boss, then yes, suck it up and figure out a way to communicate, or find another job.

Also, look at your last sentence there: if you can't do your job, you get fired. Shouldn't that apply to a professor at an English-speaking university who, y'know... can't speak English?

What killed me was students' complaints about professors' accents in med school. They'd say that they couldn't learn medicine well when they couldn't understand the prof. Well guess what----there's a HIGH chance that as a doctor, you're going to encounter hundreds of people with heavy accents as your patients. You'd better be able to keep your mind open and learn from what they have to tell you about their illness & life, or else you'll be practicing some shitty-ass medicine.

Again, I think the issue with the original post was not accents, but communicative competence. Accents play a part, sure, but fluency in a language has more to do with grammar and vocabulary.

Back on the original topic: I'm taking only two classes this semester, and both of my professors are foreign. My philosophy prof is Italian. My linguistics teacher is Chinese, and this is the first class she's ever taught in English. In both cases, they speak better English than the students. They're both fantastic. My linguistics professor even told us the first day that she was very nervous about teaching in English, but she's done an excellent job so far and I told her as much.

I also had an amazing French prof several years ago who was from Croatia -- a Croatian woman who taught English students in French! She also spoke Spanish and Portuguese; I don't know how she did it, but it was incredible.

I could also probably go on a rant about how most of my fellow Americans can't even speak their own language well (nor can they write or spell), but I'll bite my tongue on that or we could be here for days. Is that a strictly American thing, or is horrible grammar and spelling rampant in the UK and Australia as well?

 

[namkcuR]

It's getting better....the Russian guy is a headache to suit through because his accent is so strong and loud, but I can pretty much get 90% of what he's saying, albeit with a headache afterwards.

The Chinese woman is still a challenge to understand though. She is less fluent than the Russian guy.

And just to be clear - and I don't want to be misunderstood about this - I am NOT neccessarily blaming the professors themselves, but rather the university for hiring said professors in the first place. It doesn't matter how smart or educated or accomplished a professor is, if students can't understand what professors are saying, all the other stuff becomes meaningless. Language is what allows their knowledge to be passed on to us, and I believe universities should put more importance on this fact when they are hiring. I can't imagine how difficult it is for these people coming to a foreign country and trying to teach a bunch of English-speaking kids. And I do have some experience with this - my mother is Turkish and totally fluent in both Turkish and English, I am half Turkish, and I have been to Turkey with my family many times(I am going again this summer). I know what it's like when I'm there and I can't even order a meal on my own because I have so little confidence in my ability to use the ten words of Turkish I do know to do so. I can sympathize with these professors. I am not blaming them for the problem. I am blaming the university for not taking into consideration that for the 75%(my own estimate) of their students who speak English as a first language, fluent professors who are confident enough in their lingual ability that their accents aren't a factor are of VITAL importance in maximizing the quality of those students' education, especially since those students are paying(or their parents are paying) a lot of money for said education.