Almost Finished with U2

[mikal]

So I think the two early 2000s albums are terrific. Not on par with JT or Achtung Baby, but really really good and worthy of all the praise they received at the time.

I also understand why there's a subset of U2 fans who completely disagree.

And therein lies the band's problem.

I'd be thrilled with another All That You Can't Leave Behind type album, but some of you would be disgusted by anything short of the 90s work. And a few would only be happy if they did something totally different from what they've done before, which at t his point I'm not even sure what that would be.

Their output from 1980 through 2000 was so eclectic that they brought in all types of fans. Eventually you get to a point where, short of repeating yourself, it's damn near impossible to make everyone happy. And that's a tricky place to be for a band that really likes to try and make everyone happy.

What they need to focus on is not giving a turkey about making everyone happy because it's impossible. Never gonna happen.

Stick with a plot and go with it. If that's a Moroccan themed album? Great. See it through. If it's a Danger Mouse produced album, which will undoubtedly have a lot of production elements that may present a challenge in a live setting? Ok. Do it. See it out and then figure it out.

In hindsight, I really do look at 2005 as the band's last hurrah. "Bomb" was a really good album, and like you said, maybe not at the heights of anything from 84-97 but still worth the praise it got. While I like bits and pieces of their stuff post 2005 (actually think SOI is great as is), it's definitely filled with 2nd guessing, backlash, dumb business decisions, and a band trying to appeal to a younger crowd when they should have embraced their legacy.

It feels like they have one more chance at redemption.

 

[womanfish]

Agree with most of the two posts above. One shot at redemption for sure.

I happen to be one of those that don't have a lot of love for All That and Bomb. Again, both are good albums and have some phenomenal songs on them, but would chop at least three from All That and I couldn't care less about 4 or 5 songs off of Bomb. I know that Grammy's are not a measure of quality many times, but Bomb getting NINE Grammy's and Achtung getting one will always annoy the shit out of me. LOL.

Totally agree with Headache's comments about being in a place where you can't please all the fans, not a whole lot of options of "innovating" a new sound at this point. But would be really cool to see them choose a path and go all in, instead of trying to please everyone with a hodgepodge of sounds on one record.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

In hindsight, I really do look at 2005 as the band's last hurrah. "Bomb" was a really good album, and like you said, maybe not at the heights of anything from 84-97 but still worth the praise it got. While I like bits and pieces of their stuff post 2005 (actually think SOI is great as is), it's definitely filled with 2nd guessing, backlash, dumb business decisions, and a band trying to appeal to a younger crowd when they should have embraced their legacy.

It feels like they have one more chance at redemption.

i guess it depends on how you want to look at it.

technically speaking they did change course on bomb as well - dumping producers late in the game. i think this in this case it was a good move and MUCH prefer the final product vs. the earlier chris thomas work - but i know there are some here that disagree. at the very least they stuck to the vision of what they wanted to do - which was, actually, no vision - just a collection of good songs, and a doubling down on what worked on the Elevation tour.

No Line is where the second guessing went awry - but it's hard to say that they were past their "last hurrah" moment by then when the tour was so incredibly massive. clearly there was still a big appetite for the band and they had reached the point where even having a "meh" album didn't impact things anymore.

even heading into songs of innocence... Ordinary Love and Invisible were fairly well received, and there was a decent buzz around them. for whatever it's worth - the idea that Apple would WANT them to be the highlight of their keynote, that the tonight show would want to give them an entire week? all points to a band that still had a lot of juice.

and then some douche made the decision to make the album an auto download that couldn't be deleted, and all of that changed.

we're 8 years clear of that moment so it should be a good time to clear the air - even though it's still talked about ad nauseum. focusing on the band's history and legacy and reminding people of all they accomplished is a good way to do that.

 

[womanfish]

i guess it depends on how you want to look at it.

technically speaking they did change course on bomb as well - dumping producers late in the game. i think this in this case it was a good move and MUCH prefer the final product vs. the earlier chris thomas work - but i know there are some here that disagree. at the very least they stuck to the vision of what they wanted to do - which was, actually, no vision - just a collection of good songs, and a doubling down on what worked on the Elevation tour.

No Line is where the second guessing went awry - but it's hard to say that they were past their "last hurrah" moment by then when the tour was so incredibly massive. clearly there was still a big appetite for the band and they had reached the point where even having a "meh" album didn't impact things anymore.

even heading into songs of innocence... Ordinary Love and Invisible were fairly well received, and there was a decent buzz around them. for whatever it's worth - the idea that Apple would WANT them to be the highlight of their keynote, that the tonight show would want to give them an entire week? all points to a band that still had a lot of juice.

and then some douche made the decision to make the album an auto download that couldn't be deleted, and all of that changed.

we're 8 years clear of that moment so it should be a good time to clear the air - even though it's still talked about ad nauseum. focusing on the band's history and legacy and reminding people of all they accomplished is a good way to do that.

Well said!

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

it's easy for people to forget that Invisible was downloaded, for free, over 3 million times in 36 hours.

the opportunity to continue the success of the 2000s was right there - and then the apple thing happened.

 

[Irvine511]

it's easy for people to forget that Invisible was downloaded, for free, over 3 million times in 36 hours.

the opportunity to continue the success of the 2000s was right there - and then the apple thing happened.

I could be remembering it wrong, but weren’t they slightly disappointed with these numbers? Some speculated this is why they went back into the studio?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I could be remembering it wrong, but weren’t they slightly disappointed with these numbers? Some speculated this is why they went back into the studio?

i don't remember that being the case.

the song didn't really do anything on the charts, other than a quick rush of free downloads. ordinary love actually did better.

i think the going back to the studio was more about a feeling that the danger mouse songs were VERY danger mousey - and seemed processed and might have been difficult to recreate live.

which - i mean - yea, that's kinda what you get when you hire danger mouse. he has a style, and it's not exactly a secret.

 

[Hewson]

I don't recall any disappointment.
They opened up the free download on Superb Owl Sunday and it was supposed to be available for 24 hours with a cap of $2Mil donated by BoA (they're One dontcha know) at $1.00 per download but they allowed that to be exceeded and raised $3Mil.
In fact I think it greatly exceeded expectations given the time limit.

 

[DeVaul]

No radio play = disappointment for U2, even in 2014. Not sure exactly what they were expecting. Maybe another Vertigo-esque fawning from the mainstream and “cool” music press alike?

Listen, we’ve established that they’re dumb. Still a good song.

 

[Irvine511]

I don't recall any disappointment.
They opened up the free download on Superb Owl Sunday and it was supposed to be available for 24 hours with a cap of $2Mil donated by BoA (they're One dontcha know) at $1.00 per download but they allowed that to be exceeded and raised $3Mil.
In fact I think it greatly exceeded expectations given the time limit.

Ok, cool. I honestly didn’t know.

It’s such a better song than The Miracle (of my sausage calzone). Good video, too.

 

[phanan]

If it had been tied in to a new album then and there, I have no doubt Invisible would have done even better than it did. Such a wasted opportunity.

 

[mikal]

Yeah Miracle never should have been a single, but Invisible would have been a cool lead off single. I always got the track list the same. Put Invisible in the first slot and Crystal Ballroom as the closer. No other edits.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

And don't spam half the world

 

[MattD]

Are they still planning that Netflix drama series about U2?

I wonder how they'd cover the Apple release botch job.

 

[DeVaul]

i wonder how they'd cover the apple release botch job.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I have to imagine that late 2014/early 2015 was a rather dark period for Bono, so I'm looking forward to reading about that particular moment in time in this book

 

[The Panther]

'The Miracle' is a wonderful piece of songwriting. First-rate U2 in terms of composition., and should have been a slam-dunk "winner" single.

The only problem with it was its over-cooked execution in the studio, where the band members and whichever one of their 32 producers working on it thought, "This is gonna be the single... So, we'd better work it over 8,000 times until we kill all the spontaneity, make it as slick as possible in case we can entice some tweens, give it a pointless Joey Ramone subtitle to entice the 50-something white-guys, add a bunch of unnecessary backing vocals to drive into 'earworm' territory how catchy it is, and then release it!!! " Radio play, here we come!!

Still a really good song, though.

 

[DeVaul]

'The Miracle' is a wonderful piece of songwriting. First-rate U2 in terms of composition., and should have been a slam-dunk "winner" single.

The only problem with it was its over-cooked execution in the studio, where the band members and whichever one of their 32 producers working on it thought, "This is gonna be the single... So, we'd better work it over 8,000 times until we kill all the spontaneity, make it as slick as possible in case we can entice some tweens, give it a pointless Joey Ramone subtitle to entice the 50-something white-guys, add a bunch of unnecessary backing vocals to drive into 'earworm' territory how catchy it is, and then release it!!! " Radio play, here we come!!

Still a really good song, though.

I think it tells the story really well and prefer the acoustic version over the album version. If they had recorded it electric as just a foursome with no overdubs, well shit, that would’ve been the kinda thing they were referring to for the WHOLE SONG.

 

[mikal]

I have to imagine that late 2014/early 2015 was a rather dark period for Bono, so I'm looking forward to reading about that particular moment in time in this book

It seemed like he had a lot of ups and downs. The bike crash and Apple backlash was probably a really low time, but the I&E Tour was a big success and it looked like he was having a ton of fun, but then the next year he had the health scare and then the state of Politics in the US/Europe.

 

[mikal]

'The Miracle' is a wonderful piece of songwriting. First-rate U2 in terms of composition., and should have been a slam-dunk "winner" single.

The only problem with it was its over-cooked execution in the studio, where the band members and whichever one of their 32 producers working on it thought, "This is gonna be the single... So, we'd better work it over 8,000 times until we kill all the spontaneity, make it as slick as possible in case we can entice some tweens, give it a pointless Joey Ramone subtitle to entice the 50-something white-guys, add a bunch of unnecessary backing vocals to drive into 'earworm' territory how catchy it is, and then release it!!! " Radio play, here we come!!

Still a really good song, though.

Yeah I actually really like the song too. While it would never make even a top 50 list of U2 songs for me, it's simple and catchy. And it rocks in relation to U2's other output. I think it gets shit on more due to the fact that 5 years prior they shoved another "rawk" song in our faces as the lead single.

 

[lazarus]

I wouldn't call the Ramones subtitle "pointless" since the song is literally about seeing The Ramones for the first time as a teenager and being affected by it enough to start a band.

It's the overproduction that makes the connection to the pop punk heroes eye-rolling.

 

[womanfish]

I agree with a lot of the comments on Miracle. Would have been a cool album track, just not the right one to lead off the album, especially playing it at the Apple event. Would have been much cooler to have an EBW or The Troubles, Something more intimate/delicate/subtle.

And while it would have felt a little out of place with the rest of the shiny production on the album, it would have been interesting to hear a much more rough and loose version of Miracle since it's paying homage to The Ramones.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

i honestly think The Miracle would have done just fine as a lead track if not for, ahhhh shit you know what i'm going to say already.

 

[DeVaul]

i honestly think the miracle would have done just fine as a lead track if not for, ahhhh shit you know what i'm going to say already.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

View attachment 13317

 

[AndrewCowley]

The only problem with it was its over-cooked execution in the studio, where the band members and whichever one of their 32 producers working on it

Yes but you can say that about every song on the album. Every song sounds sterile, like the life has been squeezed out of them.

 

[The Panther]

Yes but you can say that about every song on the album. Every song sounds sterile, like the life has been squeezed out of them.

Well, we disagree there. 'The Miracle of Dee Dee Ramone' (I mean, it could have name-checked any Ramone, right?) is over-produced in the sense that it's way too slick and desperately trying for pop-radio status on a ship that had long sailed on U2.

But for the rest of that album, I think the production is great. When I first heard the record, before I even appreciated any of the songs, my first thought was: 'They got the sounds and levels right again!' Bono voice sounded good again and he wasn't over-singing on every track (as on No Line). The guitar parts weren't as sexy as in ye days of olde, but they were loud and fat. I've no problem with that album's production.

(Since 2005, Songs of Innocence is the only U2 album I find satisfying. Of course, there have only been three.)

 

[womanfish]

Well, we disagree there. 'The Miracle of Dee Dee Ramone' (I mean, it could have name-checked any Ramone, right?) is over-produced in the sense that it's way too slick and desperately trying for pop-radio status on a ship that had long sailed on U2.

But for the rest of that album, I think the production is great. When I first heard the record, before I even appreciated any of the songs, my first thought was: 'They got the sounds and levels right again!' Bono voice sounded good again and he wasn't over-singing on every track (as on No Line). The guitar parts weren't as sexy as in ye days of olde, but they were loud and fat. I've no problem with that album's production.

(Since 2005, Songs of Innocence is the only U2 album I find satisfying. Of course, there have only been three.)

I agree with a lot here. As full albums go, SOI stands well above the other two as a consistent satisfying listen from front to back. I do think No Line has some amazing tracks that still harness the emotional power of U2 that shifted when SOI and SOE came along. I think in part because the last two albums were focused more on story telling, than U2's long held practice of just jamming and "finding" the song along the way.
SOE is also a very good album, with a palpable dark atmosphere in its sound which I appreciate. But almost as inconsistent as No Line to me. Although No Line's lows are much lower IMO.

 

[zoopop]

Wanted to jump in on SOI/SOE talk

SOI is the better album as a whole. Its very good and listenable all the way thru. Miracle does comes off over produced. A few other songs on the album.

Only thing that was missing (& in NLOTH) was that emotional sound/song/bridge. I like Song for Someone (now 11, at the time 4 year old son would sing it in the car) but that song wasn't enough for a U2 ballad or not to their standard.

And I thought SOE had it with Little Things, Land Lady, & 13. But some of SOE is really over produced its hard to listen. GOYOW & American Soul are a mess.

But overall, the tours were awesome. The Innocence show in Phoenix (Night 1) was my 2nd favorite show ever. Even though Bono was moving around as good as previous tours they sounded great and full of energy. And seeing them on the Experience tour with no JT songs was a bold move and welcoming.

 

[DeVaul]

Obligatory “release the 8 SOI MSG shows as a digital download” post…

Out of the cobwebs: October, Two Hearts Beat as One, Satellite of Love

SOI deep cuts: Volcano, Lucifer’s Hands, The Troubles

Special guests: Bruce, The Roots, Lady Gaga, lady who called an ambulance for Bono opting to talk shit on NYers and promptly being booed

Other good stuff; Party Girl, AIWIY w. Shine Like Stars tag, Bad, Sweetest Thing, full band Stuck

(Let’s try and forget about the Paul Simon & off-rhythm audience One debacles)