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-   -   Wtf is going on in Israel today??????? (https://www.u2interference.com/forums/f290/wtf-is-going-on-in-israel-today-46925.html)

Amna 04-01-2002 05:06 PM

Total number of Palestinian deaths in West Bank & Gaza since Sept 29th, 2000 is 1,242, injuries 18,527 (Figures inclusive to Midnight March 23rd, 2002 - Source Palestinian Red Crescent Society)

THIS SUPPORTS MY OPPINION
READ: https://www.ahram.org.eg/weekly/2001/553/fada22.htm

lady lemonade 04-01-2002 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amna:
Total number of Palestinian deaths in West Bank & Gaza since Sept 29th, 2000 is 1,242, injuries 18,527 (Figures inclusive to Midnight March 23rd, 2002 - Source Palestinian Red Crescent Society)

THIS SUPPORTS MY OPPINION
READ: https://www.ahram.org.eg/weekly/2001/553/fada22.htm

I'm sorry but quoting a partisan article in an arab newspaper doesn't support your opinion really well. Even if the figures are accurate, it doesn' make terrorism any more justified. This shouldn't be about who has the most deaths on their side, about keeping scores. This pattern of revenge and retaliation is what got both sides into a war in the first place...

Oh, and if we are keeping score than I believe the figure for the number of Israelis dead is about 500 but someone might be able to give you a more accurate figure. Conclusion: war is bad!

[This message has been edited by lady lemonade (edited 04-01-2002).]

Amna 04-01-2002 05:16 PM

RAINBOW, I'm sorry u have to go through that. Its sad to see what has been going on.. I can't imagine living in it. I hope all becomes safer for u. However, I believ their is a story to each side. Before, we jump into our pent up agression, we must take a closer look into things. I have family killed by war crimes, and it sucks. Could it be that the reason that all this is happening is because Sharon is choking the Palestinian people. Maybe if there were better leaders on both sides, people wouldn't be scared of leaving their houses.
I'm sorry,
Amna

Amna 04-01-2002 11:18 PM

First of all, just about all references are biased. You can support certain media that is biased related, and i can support media that has the other bias view. I've already studied these issues through opposing biases views, and have come to the conclusion of where I want to stand. Lady, Western or American based media doesn't hold the whole the truth.

Listen Lady Lemon, I'm not supporting war at all. I'm just justifying (RECONGNIZING) the fact that Sharon is playing a bad move with the Palestinians. If he thinks that oppressing the Palestinian people is going to bring peace, he better think again. When peace had a chance, Sharon marched into a mosque and masacred many innocent civilians.... ARE THESE ACTS OF A LEADER? Sharon has participated more in these acts, and its sad to see him as a leader... Same goes with Arafat, I wish there was someone else to replace him. In addition, the Israeli Defense Military carries outs Sharon's orders, and may I say......They have commited war crimes that are unbelievable... Sharon should not be a leader, thats all I'm saying.....
I am against any sort of terrorism. Believe me, being from Pakistan, many of my friends and relatives have been victims of it.
I'M JUST FREEING MY MIND AND ADDING MY OPPINION TO THE FORUM..... I BELIEVE THAT THEIR ARE TWO SIDES OF ALL STORIES, AND THIS SO HAPPENS TO BE ONE.

Amna 04-01-2002 11:26 PM

PS- My thoughts and grammer usage is poor because I'm usually adding to the forum late at night.
Sorry

lady lemonade 04-01-2002 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amna:
First of all, just about all references are biased. You can support certain media that is biased related, and i can support media that has the other bias view. I've already studied these issues through opposing biases views, and have come to the conclusion of where I want to stand. Lady, Western or American based media doesn't hold the whole the truth.

Listen Lady Lemon, I'm not supporting war at all. I'm just justifying (RECONGNIZING) the fact that Sharon is playing a bad move with the Palestinians. If he thinks that oppressing the Palestinian people is going to bring peace, he better think again. When peace had a chance, Sharon marched into a mosque and masacred many innocent civilians.... ARE THESE ACTS OF A LEADER? Sharon has participated more in these acts, and its sad to see him as a leader... Same goes with Arafat, I wish there was someone else to replace him. In addition, the Israeli Defense Military carries outs Sharon's orders, and may I say......They have commited war crimes that are unbelievable... Sharon should not be a leader, thats all I'm saying.....
I am against any sort of terrorism. Believe me, being from Pakistan, many of my friends and relatives have been victims of it.
I'M JUST FREEING MY MIND AND ADDING MY OPPINION TO THE FORUM..... I BELIEVE THAT THEIR ARE TWO SIDES OF ALL STORIES, AND THIS SO HAPPENS TO BE ONE.

Hey, calm down, I'm not arguing with you, I happen to agree with a lot of what you said https://forum.interference.com/u2feedback/smile.gif As I said it quite clearly in a previous post, the media are biased but that's just the nature of journalism. Thus the need for us to be careful when we start quoting from articles and analyzing "facts". I was also trying to show that there are two sides to the story. Everyone is saying that Sharon's policies are flawed and that he may have involved in some terrible acts in the early 80s. However, I wanted to point out that the Palestininan leadership that has been in place for the past decade is also flawed. Arafat has been a terrorist for most of his life, only recently has he taken the role of the peace-loving dude who's only in it for the good of his people. In my eyes Arafat is in no way a better leader or a better person than Sharon is. They are two old men, sworn ennemies, who carry a past filled with violence and deceit.
BTW, my username is lady lemonade. I saw a Lady Lemon around here and I don't want her to think I'm stealing her identity https://forum.interference.com/u2feedback/wink.gif

Amna 04-01-2002 11:53 PM

Don't worry, I'm not arguing, i'm just sleepy...... https://forum.interference.com/u2feedback/smile.gif

chain 04-02-2002 12:55 AM

IRNA Headlines



Palestine-Israeli Terror /WRD/
 Palestinians: We are facing genocide and have to defend ourselves
Al-Khalil, April 1, IRNA -- Palestinians from disparate political and
ideological orientations have strongly rejected remarks by Zionist
Foreign Minister Shimon Peres condemning "suicide bomb attacks" as
immoral.
"Instead of blaming the defenseless victims for defending
themselves he should ask his Nazi-like army to stop its genocide of a
people who are struggling for freedom from occupation," said M.
Natshe, a Fatah leader in the West Bank town of al-Khalil.
Natshe accused Israel of pursuing a policy based on genocide and
ethnic cleansing towards the Palestinian people.
"Peres and his criminal cohorts are offering us either
annihilation or perpetual enslavement and occupation, we shall not
accept either, we insist on freedom and we are willing to sacrifice
our souls for it."
"People fight and die for their freedom, don't they? I don't
understand why (US President George) Bush can't understand this?"
Ahmed Hassan, a local Islamic leader in the town of Dura, 13
kilometers south west of al-Khalil, also blamed Israel for "pushing
the Palestinians to the martyr-bombing phenomenon."
"Martyr-bombing is not our strategy; it is not our goal, our
strategy is freedom from this diabolic military occupation, no nation
on the face of earth can accept perpetual rape and domination by
another nation."
He pointed out that the Palestinian people who, he said, were
going through a situation similar to that which the Jews faced during
WWII, had no choice but defend themselves with their bodies.
"We don't have an army, we don't have an air-force, we don't have
tanks, we don't have anything. The Arab world is totally powerless and
impotent, and the United States is telling Israel 'keep up the
killing.' So, what are we supposed to under these circumstances?
Abed Da'ana, an activist affiliated with the popular front for the
liberation of Palestine (PFLP) described Israeli officials remarks
about suicidal bombings as "misleading and mendacious."
"It is the Palestinian people who are facing a looming holocaust,
not the Jews. The inescapable truth now is Israel in 2002 is acting
like Nazi Germany in the 1940s, and the Palestinians are the victims,
very much like the Jews of Europe were more than 50 years ago."
On Sunday, Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat Compared
the Israeli blitz against Palestinian population centers to the Nazi
atrocities against Jews.
Some Jewish intellectuals agreed with Arafat, citing moral
degeneration among Jews, especially in Israel.

lady lemonade 04-02-2002 01:11 AM

Excuse me but what was the point of presenting this article? A collection of biased opinions by people who have their reasons to feel angry hardly justifies people blowing themselves up in crowded restaurant. So they think Israelis are Nazis, huh? Well I'm sure I could find a bunch of Israelis with the same opinions about Palestininans, especially given the statements by the Hamas that their goal is to rid all arab land of infidels and that they will pursue their suicide bombings until all Jews have left Palestine (and that includes the pre-1967 Israeli state). Better luck next time...

forbonou2 04-02-2002 10:42 AM

Lemonite-you got it! Palestine does not exist! If it's a 'nation'-where's their money? Where's there flag? There IS a Lebanon-but it's in ISREAL! And yes, purposed attacks against women and children and what they did during Passover would push me over the limit too! Isreal has a right to exist, anand some just won't be happy until there is no Isreal! Look at history-they have tried and tried to stamp her out!

Lemonite 04-02-2002 12:19 PM

Here's an article Written by Rush Limbaugh back in December on how this Mid East Situation will be Settled.. At the time he submitted it to various news organizations and newspapers.. He was Scoffed at and told How Radical... and How Dangerous such statements were.. HOWEVER.. Just REcently.. News Heads are starting to Echo This very same statement with PRaise and Agreement..

I know a lot of ya'll blow off anything Rush writes.. but I think this is good.. And regardless of your political affiliation.. You'll agree with it...

And.. Another Addendum.. For the past thirty years or so.. Who has been the constant in this Israel/Palestinian Conflict.. YASSAR ARAFAT. Again.. Just to think about.


EIB: DECEMBER 7, 2001
The only way some form of quiet will ever exist in the Middle East is if Israel is given the latitude to totally defeat its declared enemies. Only then will the terrorist attacks on Israel's civilians come to an end. Perpetual negotiations, diplomatic half measures, or land for peace deals will not bring peace to the Middle East. For those who believe this is an irresponsible notion, I use history as my guide.

Today marks the 60th anniversary of Imperial Japan's unprovoked attack on Pearl Harbor, in which 2,500 Americans were killed. There are lessons to be learned from our victory in that war.

In his April 16, 1945 address before a Joint Session of Congress, President Harry Truman stated: "So there can be no possible misunderstanding, both Germany and Japan can be certain, beyond any shadow of doubt, that America will continue the fight for freedom until no vestige of resistance remains. We are deeply conscious of the fact that much hard fighting is still ahead of us. Having to pay such a heavy price to make complete victory certain, America will never become a party to any plan for partial victory. To settle for merely another temporary respite would surely jeopardize the future security of the world. Our demand has been, and it remains, unconditional surrender."

On August 6, 1945, just 16-hours after the United States dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima, Japan, Truman issued a statement which said, in part: "The Japanese began the war from the air at Pearl Harbor. They have been repaid many fold. We are now prepared to obliterate more rapidly and completely every productive enterprise the Japanese have above ground in any city. We shall destroy their docks, their factories, and their communications. Let there be no mistake: we shall completely destroy Japan's power to make war."

Truman understood that there could be no peace without total victory. This lesson has not been lost on President George Bush. On September 20, 2001, Bush also addressed a Joint Session of Congress and announced America's policy - "the Bush Doctrine" - in responding to the atrocities of September 11. He stated: " Our war on terror begins with al Qaeda, but it does not end there. It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated."

Bush stated further: " We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place, until there is no refuge or no rest. Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime."

Since September 11, Bush has refused all offers by the Taliban regime to negotiate any settlement of the war - including the status of Osama bin Laden and his top lieutenants in the al Qaeda terrorist network - short of outright surrender. As Bush once eloquently put it: bin Laden is "wanted, dead or alive." And for over two months, the U.S. has been systematically bombing the Taliban and al Qaeda day and night. Already, the Bush administration is planning the next phase of the war, which may involve U.S. military action in Iraq, Somalia and elsewhere.

So, in the two most recent examples of the U.S. being attacked on its own territory, America's predicate for peace has been the total annihilation of its enemies. And there is every reason to expect Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to have learned the same lesson.

Since 1948, Israel has been forced to fight 4 wars with the hostile nations surrounding her. Despite defeating her enemies on the battlefield, the international community has never permitted Israel to completely destroy any of these regimes - none of which are democracies. They've always been left largely in tact, free to start or support another war, including the current terrorist war now being waged against Israel's citizens. And between wars, Israel's enemies have convinced the world, including the U.S., that her borders and security are not only legitimate subjects of constant negotiations, but that Israel's refusal to accept most, if not all, of her enemies' demands is an obstacle to peace.

This week Hamas and other terrorist groups - which, like certain of the countries that surround Israel, seek the destruction of Israel, not co- existence or even the establishment of a Palestinian state - intensified their war against the Jewish state by unleashing 5 fanatic suicide bombers against innocent civilians, mostly children. The result: hundreds of casualties, including 26 dead. In the past 14 months, more than 230 Israelis have been killed - the proportional equivalent to the U.S. losing some 11,000 people.

In addition to Hamas, which receives support from Palestinian expatriates, wealthy Saudi Arabians, and Iran, Israel is under attack from, among others, Hizballah, which is supported by Syria and Iran, and Islamic Jihad, which is backed by Iran, Sudan and militant Islamic groups.

On December 4, in an address to his nation, Sharon stated: " A war has been forced upon us. A war of terror. A war that claims innocent victims daily. A war of terror being conducted systematically, in an organized fashion, and with methodical direction. We will pursue those responsible, the perpetrators of terrorism and the supporters. We will pursue them until we catch them, and they will pay a price."

Ironically, the major obstacle to Sharon implementing the Bush Doctrine has been U.S. Middle East policy. When attacked by terrorists, Israel has been urged to show "restraint," to make more negotiated concessions and even accept the creation of a hostile Palestinian state on its border. This week's carnage appears to have caused some positive change in America's rhetoric and position. The president has now pointed the finger of responsibility directly at Yassar Arafat for ending the terrorism committed by his people. But accomplishing peace requires more - much more.

Truman was right to insist that peace would only be realized after the "obliteration" of the Japanese war machine, just as Bush is right about "defeating" the Taliban, al Qaeda and other terrorist networks. It is, therefore, necessary that in the pursuit of real and lasting peace, Israel also be free to destroy its enemies - meaning the terrorists and, yes, their sponsors, who are at war with her, and that she do so before they obtain devastating weapons of mass destruction.

oliveu2cm 04-02-2002 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rainbow:
I'm from Israel, and I just wanted to let you see things from my point of view: Do you know what it's like to be afraid to get out of your house? Because that's how I feel... The attacks are happening EVERY DAY!

Rainbow- *sigh* all this fighting happening there has disturbed me on many levels-

someone stated earlier about how their entire life there's been this idealisitc "Peace in the Middle East" which really makes you believe or want to believe everything is going to be okay and "peace" is right around the corner. And it just makes me want to scream b/c when you get down to it- innocent people are STILL being terrorized and killed. all these "holy wars" crap make me sick and upset. I'm sorry to hear you are suffering like this- and I sincerely hope and pray a resolution can be soon reached. this whole thing is just awful and i'm millions of miles away- I can't imagine living there.

,Olive


U2live 04-02-2002 10:05 PM

It has been well over 50 years the Israelis and Palestinians cannot live together on that land. So what has taken place thus far does not work. Yet here we have again the same old, tired "peace plans." There was a biography on A&E a while ago on Arafat. He is an Egyptian, not a Palestinian. He has his entire life been a terrorist, responsible for 1000s of people being killed. Today on tv they showed the documents in his "compound" that show him as purchasing the supplies for the suicide bombers. What's mind-boggling is that anyone ever thought he wasn't involved in some way. Israel deserves to live in peace like the rest of the nations of the world. The Palestinians deserve to have a country somewhere. The United Nations a long time ago should have taken care of this. A humanitarian effort would be for America to provide a home, or other countries of the world, and if it cost each of us $20 or whatever, that is small to pay for preventing a global nuclear war. Whenever they are interviewed they say how they have no homes there, so going somewhere else certainly could not be worse for them, but better. The same tired, old "plans" have got to go, and some new ways of solving this by new people. Bono probably has a hundred better ideas. How can anybody actually think that people who have developed such hatred for each other could ever live next door like that? Arafat will never be anything but what he always was, a terrorist.

nintendan 04-02-2002 10:11 PM

Don't forget the War Criminal Sharon too.

Amna 04-02-2002 11:25 PM

Whomever supports Sharon on his ideas has definently not done their home work....

-sharon is also a terrorist
-sharon killed 5000 innocent people in one event (Lebense camps).
-When ever a peace agreement comes his way, he purposly destroys it ( 2000 Peace aggr./ his march into Mount Temple (invasion of Muslims, while they were praying), resulting in the second intifada)
and the list of events goes on......
PEOPLE SHOULD RECONSIDER THEIR LIKING FOR SHARON...

Sharon has and still commits war crimes against Palestinians... Their way of capturing "terrorists" is by personally butchering little children... Of course most of you sharon supporters have never seen the number of documentaries and pix that i have seen... Because its not in America's interest to show that stuff here.
The Palestinian people have been locked in Sharon's torture cage..... I do not support suicide bombing... However, if their is to be peace and hope... The answer is not tracking down every suspicious Palestinian, woman, child, and man... It is giving the right of land..... Letting the Palestinians live in the West Bank PEACEFULLY without the IDF choking them out of their breath....
You ask me, I think Sharon and Hitler share many of the same characteristics.

lady lemonade 04-03-2002 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amna:
Whomever supports Sharon on his ideas has definently not done their home work....

-sharon is also a terrorist
-sharon killed 5000 innocent people in one event (Lebense camps).
-When ever a peace agreement comes his way, he purposly destroys it ( 2000 Peace aggr./ his march into Mount Temple (invasion of Muslims, while they were praying), resulting in the second intifada)
and the list of events goes on......
PEOPLE SHOULD RECONSIDER THEIR LIKING FOR SHARON...

Sharon has and still commits war crimes against Palestinians... Their way of capturing "terrorists" is by personally butchering little children... Of course most of you sharon supporters have never seen the number of documentaries and pix that i have seen... Because its not in America's interest to show that stuff here.
The Palestinian people have been locked in Sharon's torture cage..... I do not support suicide bombing... However, if their is to be peace and hope... The answer is not tracking down every suspicious Palestinian, woman, child, and man... It is giving the right of land..... Letting the Palestinians live in the West Bank PEACEFULLY without the IDF choking them out of their breath....
You ask me, I think Sharon and Hitler share many of the same characteristics.

Geez, why is it that people always assume that we, in N.America are completely ignorant of what's going on? Maybe seeing bodies of mutilated Israelis, of teenagers missing limbs, of entire families being decimated in one night all due to suicide bombings would have more of a shock impact but Israelis are not into the habit of parading their grief and their dead on tv...

I got a couple of questions for you: how long has Sharon been prime minister? About a year. How long has Arafat been the leader of the Palestinian movement? Roughly 3 decades. How long has terrorism and suicide bombings have been occuring in Israel? Ever since the creation of the state of Israel in 1948. Who was behind most PLO terrorist acts in the 70s, including the muder of Israeli athletes in Munich? Arafat. Who rejected the Camp David agreement which would have lead to the creation of a Palestinian state giving the Palestinians about 95-98% of the territory they were asking for? Arafat (this was about a month before Sharon ever went anywhere near Temple Mount...)
Now why is it okay to call Sharon a murderer but the world wants us to view Arafat as a martyr? As I said it MANY times before, they are both despicable old men. However, you can sympathise with Israel without being a Sharon supporter...

[This message has been edited by lady lemonade (edited 04-02-2002).]

nintendan 04-03-2002 10:32 AM

You see the thing is Sharon didn't start committing his war crimes when he became prime minister. His war crimes began way back when he was a general in the IDF and continue to this day.

lady lemonade 04-03-2002 10:41 AM

Thanks but I got that. What I don't get is why we're supposed to ignore Arafat's terrorist past and to focus on whether he's involved in terrorism now (which he probably is, IMHO...)Yet, he has remained the constant in the peace negotiations for the past 30 years. Why?

U2live 04-03-2002 08:09 PM

some people posting progaganda here seem to have forgot that 9/11 occurred. If you think we Americans in anyway are interested in what a terrorist like Arafat, or any of them, have to say or what they think. We don't care. It's offensive to even read on here after what was done in NYC. Go spew it at the CNN boards and see what you hear in return.

U2Bama 04-03-2002 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amna:
-When ever a peace agreement comes his way, he purposly destroys it ( 2000 Peace aggr./ his march into Mount Temple (invasion of Muslims, while they were praying), resulting in the second intifada)
and the list of events goes on......

The same could be said of certain pro-Palestinian terrorist groups and their activities in the past few weeks, or even the past few years.

Ever since Clinton brought Barak and Arafat to the table a few years ago, the occurrence of terrorist attacks has increased.

Ever since the Mitchell Plan commenced last year, the occurrence of terrorist attacks has increased.

Ever since the Saudi Arabia-sponsored peace plan was proposed a few weeks ago (and the U.S. and the West supported it and Israel began pulling out of Palestinian areas and said they would "consider" it), the occurrence of terrorist attacks has increased.

My point is this: as much as I do not think Sharon is a good, negotiable leader in the mix (Ehud Barak or Shimon Perez would be much better, although some biased article printed above attempts to demonize Perez), I think we do need to place at least SOME of the repsonsibility for the recent attacks on some of the more extreme, racist pro-Palestinian groups. A trend is developing, in case you haven't noticed: whenever peace with Israel seems attainable, some of the racist pro-Palestinian group go stoke the fire of hatred by bombing a pizza joint or nightclub, thus getting Israel mad at them again. That's because some of these racist pro-Palestinian groups want all non-Arabs and non-Muslims expelled from the region entirely; they do not want "peace" with Israel.

Yasser Arafat, today, may very well want peace with Israel, and honestly, I think he does. But he must be more pro-active in stopping the attacks on restaurants and such.
But as we keep bringing up Sharon's terrorist past, which I do not doubt, it is jjust as relevant for someone to mention the terrorist past of Arafat.

~U2Alabama


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