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-   -   Just a day in the life of a racist (https://www.u2interference.com/forums/f290/just-a-day-in-the-life-of-a-racist-46457.html)

anitram 10-28-2001 04:53 PM

Just a day in the life of a racist
 
Quote:

RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) - A state representative forwarded an e-mail to fellow lawmakers that claimed, ``Two things made this country great: White men & Christianity.''
Rep. Don Davis, a white Republican, said he received the letter Friday and forwarded it to every member of the state House and Senate. He said he didn't consider the letter racist.

``I just put it out for information. People can read into it whatever they want to,'' Davis said.

``There's a lot of it that's truth, the way I see it,'' Davis said. ``Who came to this country first - the white man, didn't he? That's who made this country great.''

The letter angered other lawmakers who considered it offensive and racist.

``It absolutely destroys the racial harmony that we are trying to foster in this state and in this nation,'' said Rep. William Wainwright, vice chairman of the Legislative Black Caucus.

Rep. Ron Sutton, the only American Indian in the General Assembly, said he had no use for such sentiments in the Statehouse. ``It just shows his white-supremacist, Gestapo mentality,'' Sutton said.

The address says the e-mail was sent to Davis from an Internet site called God's Order Affirmed in Love.

``Two things made this country great: White men & Christianity,'' the letter says. ``Every problem that has arrisen (sic) can be directly traced back to our departure from God's Law and the disenfranchisement of White men.''

And people thought Jesse Helms' legacy wouldn't last...

------------------
o lijepa
o draga
o slatka
slobodo


[This message has been edited by anitram (edited 10-28-2001).]

Rono 10-28-2001 05:13 PM

Well, ehh, hmm, damned now i need to blaim my ancestors for creating America.

This sucks,.....

[This message has been edited by Rono (edited 10-28-2001).]

theSoulfulMofo 10-29-2001 08:19 PM

WHITE MEN + BURNING CROSSES = KKK of AmeriKKKa

See what Rep. Davis would say to THAT!

------------------
"Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on." - Stairway to Heaven, Zoso: Led Zeppelin

DrTeeth 10-30-2001 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rono:
Well, ehh, hmm, damned now i need to blaim my ancestors for creating America.

This sucks,.....

[This message has been edited by Rono (edited 10-28-2001).]

I'm just happy to know my ancestors are all female. https://forum.interference.com/u2feedback/wink.gif

Johnny Swallow 10-30-2001 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by anitram:
... white-supremacist, Gestapo mentality...

popkidu2 11-01-2001 04:24 PM

this guy's dumber than the moose up here in new hampshire.

seriously, that type of comment won't fly. I'm sure he'll be out on his ass come next election.

Someone needs to clue him in...the Native Americans were doing just fine before we got here.....they sure as hell took better care of the earth than we ever will.

U2girl 11-01-2001 04:54 PM

The thing that pisses me off at white racists is the fact that the white race did more bad things than any other.

Just think:
- who invented slavery?
- who killed millions of Indians in North and South America? (either by weapons or by bringing new, unknown diseases)
- who promotes racism the most?


White people.

The fact is the white race got lucky and got to the technology that enabled it spreading across the world first. Also, the white race got lucky that it lives in the part of the world easiest to manipulate for agriculture and the mildest climate etc...it has NOTHING to do with it being any better than other races. It was pure coincidence.


------------------
"It's about finding your way into the music." - Edge

"Something inside said this could be everything in your life." - Bono

"U2 as a band does things no one else can do. I think that is a very powerful thing." - Larry

"Adam believed in the band before anyone did." - Bono

[This message has been edited by U2girl (edited 11-01-2001).]

Johnny Swallow 11-01-2001 05:33 PM

KILL THOSE RACIST WHITE ASSHOLES!!!

https://forum.interference.com/u2feedback/rolleyes.gif

U2girl, many different races have enslaved other people, white/black/asian/indian you name it. You can't prove that anyone race 'invented' it. And you can't measure racism, black people can be just as racist as white people. Ever heard of the Black panthers? Louis Farakahn?

Don't believe everything you see on TV.

U2girl 11-01-2001 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johnny Swallow:
KILL THOSE RACIST WHITE ASSHOLES!!!

https://forum.interference.com/u2feedback/rolleyes.gif

U2girl, many different races have enslaved other people, white/black/asian/indian you name it. You can't prove that anyone race 'invented' it. And you can't measure racism, black people can be just as racist as white people. Ever heard of the Black panthers? Louis Farakahn?

Don't believe everything you see on TV.

True, but white race used slavery more massively than other races. US even had a war to free slaves!
And, gee, don't you think i know there are racists among black people too? https://forum.interference.com/u2feedback/rolleyes.gif
Why do you think they became racists? Because of the way white racists treated black people.

It's true-white race did/does more dirty things than other races.



speedracer 11-01-2001 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by U2girl:
True, but white race used slavery more massively than other races. US even had a war to free slaves!


Not entirely true...if I remember correctly, most of the West's slaves were bought from *black* slaveholders in Africa.

melon 11-01-2001 06:45 PM

Ah yes...the greatest of all generalizations and cop-outs in history: "race." Racists of all shapes and forms are, perhaps, the most pathetic, because, for some reason, people are categorized simply by skin color.

Now let's have a token melon history lesson here (if only the high schools had done their job!). Slavery is extremely old. It's even mentioned in the Bible in a few places (mostly supportive of it, ironic enough). That, itself, should say that this isn't a "white phenomena," as the world of the Bible was not Caucasian (don't let those white Jesus statues fool you https://forum.interference.com/u2feedback/tongue.gif). Slavery is probably as old as man itself, as all governments were essentially autocratic, whether it be at the tribal level or at an imperial level. Hence, when you have all the power, it's much easier to force your subjects to do things they don't want to. What if you don't have enough subjects? You conquer your enemies and add them to your "work force." This was obviously the preferred way of doing things in everywhere from ancient Egypt to the Roman Empire to the more sophisticated form of slavery, feudalism.

Obviously, now, the point of contention here is likely the African slave trade of the 1600s to the 1800s. This was imported to the U.S. by the Dutch--I guess you can say, "white people." But it's not a simple case of the Dutch traders stealing people in Africa. Slavery in Africa was extremely common, as warring tribes would often conquer their enemies, only to enslave them. To think that Africa was immune to this practice is an incredible fallacy. So, quite often, the Dutch traders would come in to these African empires and trade goods for slaves. The African imperial leaders, seeing an opportunity for wealth, consented; hence, in many instances, these corrupt empires sold their own people away. To be fair, though, the Dutch often did kidnap Africans in addition to their "legally" traded slaves.

I think I've made my point clear here, but I'll make a quick synopsis:

1) labelling people by their race is stupid, because it wasn't "white people" who brought in the African slave trade, it was the Dutch, or, better specifically, corrupt Dutch businessmen using the Bible as justification for their actions (remember how I said the Bible supported slavery?).

2) slavery was not invented by white people, and surely was not used exclusively by white people, as it was used in Asian, Middle Eastern, and even African cultures as a convenient way to take out enemies and increase their workforce.

3) white people have been enslaved as well, as the Romans often enslaved the European "barbarians" as well, not to mention the sophisticated form of slavery, feudalism, which lasted well over 1000 years and wasn't even abolished in Russia until around the 1850s.

4) nothing is as simple as it seems, and that does include slavery.

Any comments?

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

U2Bama 11-01-2001 08:57 PM

Johnny Swallow, Speedracer, and Melon summed it all up best here. Something else I learned in college from a "revisionist-revisionist" history professor: there were freedmen (former slaves) in the Louisiana Territory who eventually owned plantations and, yes, even their OWN slaves. But this was in Louisiana which had a more liberal slave system influenced by that of the French.

The sad thing is that slavery still exists in the African nations of Sudan, Nigeria and Mauritania, but we are not supposed to criticize it since it is part of the "culture."

~U2Alabama

pub crawler 11-02-2001 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by melon:
Any comments?

Yes. Melon, you seem to be justifying slavery and/or racial prejudice. The fact that whites may have been enslaved at various times throughout history does not in any way justify the racism towards people of color that exists in America today.



brettig 11-02-2001 02:31 AM

I dont think he was ever defending slavery- rather he was attacking the contention that the concept of slavery was the invention of Western/White society. What he did point out was that certain parts of the Bible, particularly the Old Testament do appear to support the concept...

I also applaud anyone who sees feudalism as just another mode of slavery- having read recently about Napoleon's 1812 Invasion of Russia I cannot think of the system any other way...

pub crawler 11-02-2001 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brettig:
I dont think he was ever defending slavery- rather he was attacking the contention that the concept of slavery was the invention of Western/White society.
Point well taken. I realize that melon's purpose was (at least partially) to rebut U2girl's somewhat rash comments but within the context of this thread, which began with the quotes of the ethnocentric (and in my view, ignorant) Rep. Davis, my feeling is that melon's comments could actually be taken as a defense of people like Davis.

If we're talking about America and we're talking about today, i.e. 2001, then we've got to talk about the fact that whites still hold the balance of power in this country.

pub crawler 11-02-2001 03:52 AM

...and an imbalance of power among racial and/or ethnic groups seems to foster racial inequalities.

That's all I'm sayin'.

brettig 11-02-2001 06:27 AM

It does...we've got our own 'dirty laundry' regarding indigenous people in australia i assure you...

U2girl 11-02-2001 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by melon:
Slavery is probably as old as man itself, as all governments were essentially autocratic, whether it be at the tribal level or at an imperial level. Hence, when you have all the power, it's much easier to force your subjects to do things they don't want to. What if you don't have enough subjects? You conquer your enemies and add them to your "work force." This was obviously the preferred way of doing things in everywhere from ancient Egypt to the Roman Empire to the more sophisticated form of slavery, feudalism.

Obviously, now, the point of contention here is likely the African slave trade of the 1600s to the 1800s. This was imported to the U.S. by the Dutch--I guess you can say, "white people." But it's not a simple case of the Dutch traders stealing people in Africa. Slavery in Africa was extremely common, as warring tribes would often conquer their enemies, only to enslave them. To think that Africa was immune to this practice is an incredible fallacy. So, quite often, the Dutch traders would come in to these African empires and trade goods for slaves. The African imperial leaders, seeing an opportunity for wealth, consented; hence, in many instances, these corrupt empires sold their own people away. To be fair, though, the Dutch often did kidnap Africans in addition to their "legally" traded slaves.

I think I've made my point clear here, but I'll make a quick synopsis:

1) labelling people by their race is stupid, because it wasn't "white people" who brought in the African slave trade, it was the Dutch, or, better specifically, corrupt Dutch businessmen using the Bible as justification for their actions (remember how I said the Bible supported slavery?).

2) slavery was not invented by white people, and surely was not used exclusively by white people, as it was used in Asian, Middle Eastern, and even African cultures as a convenient way to take out enemies and increase their workforce.

3) white people have been enslaved as well, as the Romans often enslaved the European "barbarians" as well, not to mention the sophisticated form of slavery, feudalism, which lasted well over 1000 years and wasn't even abolished in Russia until around the 1850s.

4) nothing is as simple as it seems, and that does include slavery.

Any comments?

Melon


Yes.

It's true that human history is full of battles and conflicts-and in those conflicts winners always took vengeance on losers (using them for slavery, burning down their homes etc...).

Interesting thought: feudalism as a form of slavery? I guess that's one way of looking at it, though when i think of "slavery" usually black people's and Romans's slavery come to mind.

1) Well Dutch people are white, aren't they?

Another thing i was getting at was that the white race has been expanding more than other races. (going into Americas, colonizing Africa-i think in some parts of N. Africa French language is still used quite often)
While doing that, it was very aggresive towards the native people over there, winning eventually with the use of its higher development and/or pressuring people to Christian faith.

This has nothing to do with slavery, but it does have to do with white racism:
let's not forget that Germans were using "arian race is supreme" propaganda to justify what they did to Jews and others, "who had to make place for the supreme race".

I think it's ironic that, of all the races, white people (white racists), claim to be above the rest.

Like i said, it was all about coincidence and luck. No way are whites automatically better than other races. All races are equal: there are good and bad people to be found any- and everywhere in the world.

Johnny Swallow 11-02-2001 08:31 AM

*Looks down*
------------------
This post brought to you by: Ignorance "It never fails."

AIM: JuanSwallow

[This message has been edited by Johnny Swallow (edited 11-02-2001).]

Popmartijn 11-02-2001 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by U2girl:
1) Well Dutch people are white, aren't they?

No.

I'm pink and rosy https://forum.interference.com/u2feedback/smile.gif

Quote:

Interesting thought: feudalism as a form of slavery? I guess that's one way of looking at it, though when i think of "slavery" usually black people's and Romans's slavery come to mind.
I think I agree with the thought of feudalism as slavery. You mentioned what comes first to your mind when talking about slavery and I don't think you're the only one thinking like that. But like Melon said, slavery is unfortunately more widespread and older than that.


C ya!

Marty



------------------
People criticize me but I know it's not the end
I try to kick the truth, not just to make friends

Spearhead - People In Tha Middle

melon 11-02-2001 10:44 AM

No, my comments were in rebuttal to U2girl. As for that ignorant son-of-a-bitch Rep. Davis, I hope he is ripped to shreds. "God's Order Affirmed in Love." PLEASE! Apparently, that "order" is in white supremacy to him. May all these so-called "Christians" (who really don't know the first thing about true Christianity) rot in hell. What's sad is that these so-called "Christians" somehow find their way into government, whether it be in the legislatures or the presidency or in influencing the policies of both, and the people are forced to suffer at the hands of these small-minded, reactionary extremists. And who said our politicians were smart? https://forum.interference.com/u2feedback/rolleyes.gif Any idiot can run our nation, as long as they have the money and the ad campaign to manipulate others.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

melon 11-02-2001 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pub crawler:
If we're talking about America and we're talking about today, i.e. 2001, then we've got to talk about the fact that whites still hold the balance of power in this country.
That is most certainly a separate issue that I wasn't referring to. And let's get beyond race here. Who holds the balance of power? Wealthy, conservative, "Christian" white men, not "white people."

Comments?

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

Lemonite 11-02-2001 11:29 AM

Geez, I go to post and there's like a thousand little different face icons to use.. Anywayz, I do think it is extremely important to note that Black Freedmen had slaves of their own, as then it is more of a signal of the times than whites only racists.. Yah, It sucks, that was a bitch of a situation for those involved, but .. and I think I'm not alone in this one.. I think racism is probably equal now.. in present times, between blacks and whites.. There is soo omuch black racism towards whites that it almost makes me sick.. I don't judge anyone on the basis of their skin color, but there are white people who still do, and there are blacks who will talk endless shit, beat up, or just plain 'hate' on whites.. I mean, my little brother and I went to a Cash Money and DMX concert (Rappers).. and the First thing the DJ said was .. 'To All you White Folk... Get the Fuck Out OF Here'.. and everyone lifted the middle finger.. And of course, the rebuttal by blacks is that they're just getting even.. But grow up.. the shit happened, get over it.. we (white americans) on the whole are going to extreme lengghts to just treat people equal.. Though Affirmative Action is teh Most Racist Thing to come out of latest 20th century... And blacks just have to reach back to us (white americans)... Ok.. That probably wasn't right with the thread.. but just reading things like.. WHITE MEN + BURNING CROSSES = KKK of AmeriKKKa.. but let's go MALCOM X + Black Panthers = Kill Whitey.. I mean.. Yah, if we're going to say 'I HATE WHITE RACISTS'.. I think we all have a right to say I HATe BLACK RACISTS .. That's why I don't buy Lauren Hill.. But why I love Dr. Dre and his crew.. His latest tour.. He always spoke of how he wanted to make a show for blacks, whites, asians.. everyone.. Anyways.. I've got to go .. ND Football Irish GUard calls...

pub crawler 11-02-2001 12:18 PM

Questions, anyone?

Rono 11-03-2001 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DrTeeth:
I'm just happy to know my ancestors are all female. https://forum.interference.com/u2feedback/wink.gif
Are you related to the woman with the beard ?

https://forum.interference.com/u2feedback/biggrin.gif


DrTeeth 11-03-2001 10:08 AM

That's my mother you're talkin' about sucka!!
Treat her right fool or I'll throw you helluvva far!!

Damn, ma van's fast!!!

Angela Harlem 11-03-2001 10:44 AM

It saddens me when people say racism is a white issue. Its specific to the people that perpetrate it.

pub crawler 11-03-2001 01:27 PM

Please don't count me among those who say racism is "only a white issue."

I realize we're all the same, regardless of race or ethnicity, and we are all capable of perpetrating hatred. We are also all capable of being quite benevolent.

I just think it's important to acknowledge the fact that, with respect to racial injustice in America, one can argue all day and night that racism goes both ways, but that argument fails because whites hold most of the power in this great country.

Here's another way of stating it: Racism does indeed go both ways. However, the fact that it goes both ways is a moot point because the racist behavior perpetrated by those in power has a far more significant impact than any racist behavior being demonstrated by those "out" of power. I.e., the little guy gets screwed.



Crzy4Bono 11-05-2001 04:42 PM

Another point -
The Civil War was not fought over slavery. It was, in fact, fought over states rights. Slavery was the "media" issue, which came up to the forefront after Lincoln used it in the Emancipation Proclaimation, but in fact that was designed to disrupt the economic stability of the south (an agricultural economy heavily dependent on cheap manual labor) rather than any great desire on the part of the north to free the slaves (other than the abolitionists, who actually were throughout the US at the time).

Carry on.

------------------
She's gonna dream up a world she wants to live in / She's gonna dream out loud.
Visit my web page at www.u2page.com

melon 11-05-2001 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crzy4Bono:
but in fact that was designed to disrupt the economic stability of the south
Haven't you forgotten that the South seceded from the U.S. first? This was a matter of quelching separatism, quite honestly. Considering all the trouble we've had to endure with the South since, part of me wishes the North had just let the South go and languish into a confederate chaos. But the better side of me knows that everyone's lives are better--slaves were freed, indentured servants were freed, the elitist and feudal state of the South was destroyed. Even today, quite honestly, I don't know how the North and the South stay together. It seems to be that, quite often, they are ideological opposites, and it's like pulling teeth to get the two to cooperate.

But maybe I'm blowing it all out of proportion out of unrelated bitterness... Expect a retraction soon, if that's the case.

Carry on.

Melon

------------------
"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

Crzy4Bono 11-05-2001 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by melon:
Haven't you forgotten that the South seceded from the U.S. first? This was a matter of quelching separatism, quite honestly. Considering all the trouble we've had to endure with the South since, part of me wishes the North had just let the South go and languish into a confederate chaos. But the better side of me knows that everyone's lives are better--slaves were freed, indentured servants were freed, the elitist and feudal state of the South was destroyed. Even today, quite honestly, I don't know how the North and the South stay together. It seems to be that, quite often, they are ideological opposites, and it's like pulling teeth to get the two to cooperate.

But maybe I'm blowing it all out of proportion out of unrelated bitterness... Expect a retraction soon, if that's the case.

Carry on.

Melon


Well yes, Melon - the south did secede first - which was the whole point behind the Civil War (as I was pointing out). But the idea of freeing the slaves was a tactic used by the north, after the war was underway, to further undermine the economic stability of the south, to give them another arrow in the quiver to win the war.

Exactly what troubles have you had to "endure" with the south that haven't been endured elsewhere? Race riots occurred all over the US (Watts, LA, Chicago, etc.) not just in the south. A lot of the freedom fighters, black and white, were from the south. Racial minorities seem to feel pretty disenfranchised no matter where they live - it isn't limited to one side of the Mason-Dixon line.

I hope you will retract. https://forum.interference.com/u2feedback/smile.gif I am from the South, and there are a lot of people like me who are fair minded thinkers with opinions just like some people in the north. There are a lot of racist bigots who live in the north, just like the south. Geography doesn't determine what type of person you are. And that's an awfully sweeping statement. I've gotten the impression from you that you hate it down here before, but I do wonder how much time you've actually spent here.

Peace

------------------
She's gonna dream up a world she wants to live in / She's gonna dream out loud.
Visit my web page at www.u2page.com

U2Bama 11-05-2001 09:55 PM

Okay, let's see if I can moderate between Crzy4Bono & melon.

Crzy4Bono:
You are correct that the Civil War was faught over the broader range of states rights, BUT the main "right" of these was the continuation of the slave trade and labor system, and this issue had been boiling since before the Missouri Compromise of 1820-21. It continued to fester with the Kansas-Nebraska Act and the Compromise of 1850.

The anti-slavery movement came to political life via Northern (mainly New England) Senators and Congressmen who were coincidentally ALSO trying to convert the U.S. to an industrial economy. It was not only that the Southern delegations wanted to maintain their own agrarian system, but they ALSO wanted newly admitted states to be admitted at least on an equal basis as "slave" states and "free" states. But despite the posturing of either side in our antebellum Congress, we do not know for sure if the Northern representatives were true, moral abolitionists or if they were attempting to give their industrialization a boost. Either way, I am glad they started the process to rid us of slavery.

Also, you are correct that abolitionists were very active in the South, even prior to the War, but they were more "underground" because their goals were perceived as threatening the livelihood of a lot of Southerners. There were also Union loyalists, some who even served in the Union Army, in North Alabama and East Tennessee, just as there were Confederate regiments from Indiana and Southern Illinois, both heavy agricultural regions.

But melon:

You unfortunately rely too much on elementary school documentaries and Gene Hackman movies for your stereotypical views of the modern-day South. I have reminded you a few times in these forums that the KKK is far more active today in the Midwest and Rocky Mountain states than it is in the South, and that the few Klan rallies in Alabama and Georgia recently have been organized by grand poobahs from Pennsylvania, Indiana and MICHIGAN. Case in point: the Virginia Supreme Court recently had 2 cases challenging a state law banning cross burnings. The perpetrator and eventual challenger of the law was in fact the leader of a Pennsylvania Klan group.

I think if you walked the streets of my neighborhood, here in one of the most solidly Republican counties in the U.S. (Shelby County, Alabama), you would be very surprised at the diversity of the people here AND the friendship between the people. Have you ever spent any time here in the South?

Your statement about wishing the North had just "let the South go" and wondering how we stay together is extreme elitism. So you would have preferred the Norht just let the South go and allow slavery to continue in the C.S.A.? That's not a very good human rights concession.

~U2Alabama

melon 11-05-2001 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by U2Bama:
You unfortunately rely too much on elementary school documentaries and Gene Hackman movies for your stereotypical views of the modern-day South.
Hmm...I wish my views made out of unrelated embitterness were from elementary videos. Half of my hometown is populated by people from two cities in Tennessee. I won't get into too many details, but some stereotypes are true, sadly. Of course, the South is probably great now. All the stereotypes went north.

Quote:

I have reminded you a few times in these forums that the KKK is far more active today in the Midwest and Rocky Mountain states than it is in the South, and that the few Klan rallies in Alabama and Georgia recently have been organized by grand poobahs from Pennsylvania, Indiana and MICHIGAN.
Yes, the Tennessee implants were instrumental in making the KKK quite active in our area during the Vietnam era. Luckily, it's not horribly active anymore where I'm at, and I think the last KKK activity happened 10 years ago back home.

And you don't have to tell me of the hickdom of Michigan. I lament it everyday.

Quote:

Case in point: the Virginia Supreme Court recently had 2 cases challenging a state law banning cross burnings. The perpetrator and eventual challenger of the law was in fact the leader of a Pennsylvania Klan group.


Thanks for reminding me. The last case in my hometown was a cross burning outside a black family's home 10 years ago.

Quote:

I think if you walked the streets of my neighborhood, here in one of the most solidly Republican counties in the U.S. (Shelby County, Alabama), you would be very surprised at the diversity of the people here AND the friendship between the people. Have you ever spent any time here in the South?
I don't doubt it. In fact, it's true. I did make my statement in bitterness; not of the South itself, but of the Southern implants in my hometown. So, in reality, it's not as much as I hate the South, as much as I hate my hometown and what it has turned into. As a result, I've turned into the antithesis of everything I think my hometown stands for. It's very amusing when I can psychoanalyze myself.[/B][/QUOTE]

Quote:

Your statement about wishing the North had just "let the South go" and wondering how we stay together is extreme elitism.
Perhaps. Even I am not immune from being slightly prejudiced, as I've explained above. I'm just one of the few who would actually admit it. Of course, rationally, prejudices are stupid, so I'm working on that. As it says, "I like individuals. It's people I hate."

I guess I'm also tired of the fact that, seemingly, all politics is catered to and determined by either Southern states, Southern politicians, or Southern PACs. I mean, even our presidents are all Southerners (or Northerners pretending to be Southerners) now.

Of course, I should be used to the fact that I'm a minority in America.

Quote:

So you would have preferred the Norht just let the South go and allow slavery to continue in the C.S.A.? That's not a very good human rights concession.
Well, if you read above, that's why I think the Civil War was best. If slavery and feudalism weren't an issue, I'd have been inclined to just let them go and see them sink or swim on their own.

Anyway, now I know I am saying this stuff in unrelated bitterness. I'm sure I'll be retracting this all tomorrow. I guess, for now, I'd be interested in seeing the reactions to what I have written in anger.

But, as I've hit a pang of reality, it's not races or people of certain geographical regions that bother me. Southerners, in themselves, do not bother me in the slightest. It's ignorance and small-mindedness that truly bothers me. Oh I'm sure people are looking at this ready to call be bigoted and small-minded now too. We all have our moments, and this is, surely, not my highest point. But I come before you as honest as I try to be, and if we are to truly make this world a better place, we need to confront who we are, what we think, and, hopefully, find out why we think the way we do. Covering it up in tight little pink bows solves nothing.

Who am I? A young, hot, smart, gay, leftist, radical Catholic intellectual who can't stand incompetance and demands too much out the society around him. If I could do everything myself, I would, but, obviously, I can't. As a result, I start sounding arrogant and cynical, depending on who I'm talking to and what day it happens to be. So, to those who dislike me today, it's just one of those days with me. It happens to the best of us. I am who I am.

Melon

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"He had lived through an age when men and women with energy and ruthlessness but without much ability or persistence excelled. And even though most of them had gone under, their ignorance had confused Roy, making him wonder whether the things he had striven to learn, and thought of as 'culture,' were irrelevant. Everything was supposed to be the same: commercials, Beethoven's late quartets, pop records, shopfronts, Freud, multi-coloured hair. Greatness, comparison, value, depth: gone, gone, gone. Anything could give some pleasure; he saw that. But not everything provided the sustenance of a deeper understanding." - Hanif Kureishi, Love in a Blue Time

U2Bama 11-05-2001 11:48 PM

Maybe you could get Michigan to close its borders to Tennesseeans?

Angela Harlem 11-06-2001 05:22 AM

Pub Crawler, I wasn't meaning to imply that is what you believe. I know you dont. It pisses me off so much people actually give a shit about someone's skin colour. History is not always something we are proud of, but to use it to fuel hatred of a group is beyond me.

Just to rave on a bit more and divert from the direction this debate has taken, I will use an example of Aboriginal Aus.

I am in a pub minding my own bisuness when an Aboriginal girl of about my age picks a fight to inform me she hates me, my people, my ancestors etc for the previous 200 years. I get "you racist white bitch". Now, to be practical for a moment, my ancestors actually have only lived in Aus for the last 30 years or so, so technichally had nothing to do with the events of the past. Being part Aboriginal, Im sure its different for her. She no doubt does descend from folks that suffered at the hands of the white settlers. Yet she, someone who was never directly affected, hates me, someone who was never there to be guilty of anything. To me, its misguided anger. I am actually very sorry for all that was done to the Aboriginal people. I know the reasons why its unfair, I know the history, I know the injustice. But how do you overcome that hate on her behalf?

This will prolly be taken out of context. But I hope it shows my point. What do you do eh.

pub crawler 11-06-2001 12:05 PM

No, I understand you Angela. Thanks.

You touched on something I've been thinking about. I have known at least one black person who was pulled over by a cop only because of his skin color.

He was a nice guy, someone I worked with, and it really angered me to hear his story. Plus, I've heard that same story told many times in the news media by celebrities and everyday people, so I know it is not a rare occurence. If a black guy drives through Beverly Hills, perhaps in a nice car, hmmm, he's suddenly a suspicious character. https://forum.interference.com/u2feedback/rolleyes.gif

I really do ask myself, what if I were black? How would I like being treated like a leper some of the time? How would I feel when I noticed women pulling their purse tight to their body when seeing me walking by, or locking their car doors at the sight of me?

My empathy is only compounded by the fact that I realize that I MYSELF STEREOTYPE BLACK PEOPLE, as well as people of other races and ethnicities. If I meet a black guy who's using black slang and "dialect" (I don't know what else to call it and I don't care for the term "ebonics"), I'm probably inclined to think that guy will not understand me unless I speak "down" to his level.

I have all the usual stereotypical thoughts in my mind when it comes to people different than me. Not all the time, but those thoughts do occasionally come to the surface.

I know other people have those stereotypical thoughts, as well. My late uncle was a severe racist. A very good friend of mine, an intelligent, well read, "liberal" guy he is, recently told me that he is unfortunately finding that he "doesn't like black people." He has had incidences when walking home late at night where black men have approached him and hassled him. (He lives near a fairly rough neighborhood). I am somewhat blown away that this friend of mine feels this way. In the past he has expressed very leftist, liberal leanings.

I dated a black woman for a short period. One time, after we hadn't seen each other for several weeks, I ran into her at a social event. She sat on my lap, and I was uncomfortable with it because people (95% of the attendees were white) were seeing me with a black girl in my lap.

I could go on and on.... but the point is, I think we who are white need to think about our position in life and how (relatively) good we have it. Due to the color of our skin we have a certain amount of priveledge accorded to us!



Crzy4Bono 11-06-2001 08:04 PM

Bama -
Thanks for trying to help me out.

The war was, however, originally started over states rights. The initial issues arose because the south (hugely agricultural) was trading almost exclusively with the British, which pissed off the politicians in the north, so they enacted a lot of tarrifs and trading restrictions to try to increase north/south trade. This caused a lot of resentment and calls of decentralized government - led by South Carolina (a huge sea port state). After the war started, the north was also afraid that the British were going to come in on the side of the south so they brought in the slavery issue, since there was a huge anti-slavery movement in great britain at the time, to stop that from happening, and also to disrupt agricultural trade from the south.

Not enough space here to type the whole history of the Civil War - but I was just trying to make the point that the war was not fought over slavery. It did become a key issue, but not for the moral reasons that most people believe. (Although there were a lot of people, all over the country, who thought slave trade was wrong.)

All that being said, I of course don't agree slavery was ever a good thing. But just trying to correct a common misconception about the Civil War.

To Melon - I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience with the people you've met from Tennessee. I am also from Tennessee - and I think you'd find that we see eye to eye on a lot of things... I hope you will reconsider your hasty generalization of all things southern based on these two folks you've met.

Peace to y'all. (that was a joke - the y'all thing)

https://forum.interference.com/u2feedback/smile.gif

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She's gonna dream up a world she wants to live in / She's gonna dream out loud.
Visit my web page at www.u2page.com

U2Bama 11-06-2001 09:03 PM

Why should the "y'all" thing be a joke? I use that word all the time.

I don't mean to argue, Crzy4Bono, but do you not see the significance of the slavery issue in the admission of new, predominantly agricultural states, leading up to the shots fired at Fort Sumter? The issue was so divisive in Kansas that it earned the nickname "Bleeding Kansas." I think that both the economic desires AND, to perhaps a lesser extent, abolition, were important to many of the Northern power brokers. And Britain DID assist the Confederacy with a naval blockade during the Civil War as they continued to be a major trade partner with the Southern states.

Perhaps many of you are surprised at how pro-North a conservative Southerner such as myself is, but on this issue I am 100% Unionist.

Even though I can't stand (the University of) Tennessee's football team or coach, Tennesseeans are genuinely nice people and melon doesn't have a clue in their regard.

~U2Alabama

Crzy4Bono 11-06-2001 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by U2Bama:
I don't mean to argue, Crzy4Bono
Of course you do... https://forum.interference.com/u2feedback/wink.gif

Quote:

Even though I can't stand (the University of) Tennessee's football team or coach, Tennesseeans are genuinely nice people and melon doesn't have a clue in their regard.
Why thank you Bama. I even cheered for your team this past weekend.




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She's gonna dream up a world she wants to live in / She's gonna dream out loud.
Visit my web page at www.u2page.com

U2Bama 11-06-2001 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crzy4Bono:
I even cheered for your team this past weekend.

Perhaps that is why LSU won.

Angela Harlem 11-07-2001 03:40 AM

Pub, you are quite strong to admit you may judge too quickly. I think everyone does. i know i do, not only with people's ethnicity, but many things. I see a young woman pushing a pram with 3 kids around her, I immediately assume shes unemployed, on a pension and has her kids to all different fathers. Or a large scary looking man covered with tat, I think hes either a truck driver or on day release (from jail).

ONe time actually I was proved very wrong, and Im glad. I was in that same pub which happens to be my favourite but not really nearby to where i live so when I go, its abig and serious night out. My friends and I were all playing pool and a Maori girl who was built like one of the all blacks came and put money on the table. After the game we all got a bit nervous and I said you take the table, we dont need to play anymore. She gave me a look and said nah, come on it will be fun. All her friends were huge. Still not sure we played and lost cos I really was a bit wary, but they all turned out to be the nicest girls ever. Its not that I dont like Kiwis at all, cos they actually crack me up like you wouldnt believe but in this instance they fit the steroetype so well I couldnt get past it at first. Its such a shame and simply because skin, race or nationality means squat. I wonder how many opportunities we miss when we let a marrow minded attitude rule. I really couldnt give a damn about skin colour, before I was born my parents adopted a 'black' baby. And although I wouldn't have it any other way, my sister is the greatest person alive. I think because of her I dont notice colour. But sterotypes is another matter. Whenever my dad complains about anything I immediately call him a whinging pom. Even though its not offensive, I wonder if through my blase attitude I perhaps dont have total control over it. Black, white, whatever, we're all guilty in some way I reckon.


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