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Oregoropa 04-22-2015 04:25 PM

double post

Oregoropa 04-22-2015 04:28 PM

In the US we have a tradition of 2 parties. But within those you have schisms. I would argue there are 4 parties.

GOP Establishment (Rockefeller Republicans) - Usually tied to big business lobby. Country Club Crony Capitalism type mentality. Examples Jeb Bush, John McCain, Mitt Romney

Tea Party - Believe Big Centralized Government prone to corruption. Strong Constitutional Conservative. Conservative Social Issues. Examples: Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin, Mike Lee

Blue Dog Democrat - Supports FDR + LBJ safety nets. Can be middle of the road social issues. Used to have a strong showing in Middle America. Examples: Joe Manchin, Jim Webb, Heath Shuler

Liberal Democrats - Support strong centralized government. Liberalized Social Issues. Less prone to use military. Examples: Barack Obama, Elizabeth Warren, Nancy Pelosi

Diemen 04-22-2015 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregoropa (Post 7932724)
Tea Party - Believe Big Centralized Government prone to corruption. Strong Constitutional Conservative.

Well that's a generous reading. :)

Mrs. Garrison 04-22-2015 05:10 PM

My idea of the tea party might be different and include terms like racist, bigoted, homophobic, etc. And now that we have Ted Cruz as their current darling, add hypocrite to that list.

Mrs. Garrison 04-22-2015 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregoropa (Post 7932709)
Like I prefaced it: My prediction.

Actually what you said was this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
My prediction: Hillary is going to continue to struggle
The word "continue" would indicate that she is struggling currently, however as the CNN poll from RCP would indicate, she doesn't appear to be struggling currently.

She may "struggle" at some point as the election is still quite a ways out. However, if she is currently struggling by your metrics, she will still win easily. Which if you think about it, that is not exactly the definition of struggle.

Irvine511 04-22-2015 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregoropa (Post 7932724)
In the US we have a tradition of 2 parties. But within those you have schisms. I would argue there are 4 parties.



GOP Establishment (Rockefeller Republicans) - Usually tied to big business lobby. Country Club Crony Capitalism type mentality. Examples Jeb Bush, John McCain, Mitt Romney



Tea Party - Believe Big Centralized Government prone to corruption. Strong Constitutional Conservative. Conservative Social Issues. Examples: Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin, Mike Lee



Blue Dog Democrat - Supports FDR + LBJ safety nets. Can be middle of the road social issues. Used to have a strong showing in Middle America. Examples: Joe Manchin, Jim Webb, Heath Shuler



Liberal Democrats - Support strong centralized government. Liberalized Social Issues. Less prone to use military. Examples: Barack Obama, Elizabeth Warren, Nancy Pelosi





I think this is a totally reasonable breakdown, and if we were in a parliamentary system, these are probably the parties we would have. It's the nature of the presidency, I think, and the need for a one-on-one election, that makes us dependent on the two parties.

Oregoropa 04-22-2015 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. Garrison (Post 7932755)
My idea of the tea party might be different and include terms like racist, bigoted, homophobic, etc. And now that we have Ted Cruz as their current darling, add hypocrite to that list.

Give me one credited example of the Tea Party being racist?

Mia Love and Tim Scott are both Tea Party Republicans

PhilsFan 04-22-2015 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregoropa (Post 7932784)
Give me one credited example of the Tea Party being racist?

You can't be serious. You can't actually need an example of Tea Partiers being racist.

Oregoropa 04-22-2015 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilsFan (Post 7932786)
You can't be serious. You can't actually need an example of Tea Partiers being racist.

Yes I am asking for a specific example. Go right ahead Phils fan. (I like the Phillies too)

wolf 04-22-2015 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregoropa (Post 7932724)
In the US we have a tradition of 2 parties. But within those you have schisms. I would argue there are 4 parties.

GOP Establishment (Rockefeller Republicans) - Usually tied to big business lobby. Country Club Crony Capitalism type mentality. Examples Jeb Bush, John McCain, Mitt Romney

Tea Party - Believe Big Centralized Government prone to corruption. Strong Constitutional Conservative. Conservative Social Issues. Examples: Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin, Mike Lee

Blue Dog Democrat - Supports FDR + LBJ safety nets. Can be middle of the road social issues. Used to have a strong showing in Middle America. Examples: Joe Manchin, Jim Webb, Heath Shuler

Liberal Democrats - Support strong centralized government. Liberalized Social Issues. Less prone to use military. Examples: Barack Obama, Elizabeth Warren, Nancy Pelosi

So is Hillary a Blue Dog or a Liberal?

BVS 04-22-2015 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregoropa (Post 7932724)
In the US we have a tradition of 2 parties. But within those you have schisms. I would argue there are 4 parties.



GOP Establishment (Rockefeller Republicans) - Usually tied to big business lobby. Country Club Crony Capitalism type mentality. Examples Jeb Bush, John McCain, Mitt Romney



Tea Party - Believe Big Centralized Government prone to corruption. Strong Constitutional Conservative. Conservative Social Issues. Examples: Ted Cruz, Sarah Palin, Mike Lee



Blue Dog Democrat - Supports FDR + LBJ safety nets. Can be middle of the road social issues. Used to have a strong showing in Middle America. Examples: Joe Manchin, Jim Webb, Heath Shuler



Liberal Democrats - Support strong centralized government. Liberalized Social Issues. Less prone to use military. Examples: Barack Obama, Elizabeth Warren, Nancy Pelosi


Can anyone tell which category Oregoropa considers themself by the descriptions? lol


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bobsaget77 04-22-2015 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf (Post 7932822)
So is Hillary a Blue Dog or a Liberal?


Bill's a blue dog, Hillary's a liberal.


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BVS 04-22-2015 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobsaget77 (Post 7932826)
Bill's a blue dog, Hillary's a liberal.


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According to what definition?


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bobsaget77 04-22-2015 07:47 PM

US Presidential Election 2016...because it's never too early
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BVS (Post 7932834)
According to what definition?


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By the fact that Hillary has a more liberal past than Bill. Bill moved more towards the center in 1994 and was willing to be bipartisan. So I think of him as a moderate democrat. (By today's standards)
While Hillary is about as liberal as President Obama, Pelosi, Sanders, etc.


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Mrs. Garrison 04-22-2015 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregoropa (Post 7932784)
Give me one credited example of the Tea Party being racist?

Mia Love and Tim Scott are both Tea Party Republicans

There's nothing at all racist about a gathering of angry men, mostly older and white, holding American flags upside down, many carrying confederate flags, protesting the President, his policies, and of course immigration.

They might call them self "taxed enough already" and that might be the basis of their formation. However its not a stretch to see what the root of their anger really is. It is funny that they became a party not long after the first black president was elected. How many of them complained when Bush signed TARP into law? I don't remember any complaints then...it was only after the 2008 election and Obama took office.

I doubt all of them are racists, just like i doubt the tea party would even exist had McCain been elected in 2008. That's not the factual proof you are looking for...yeah there are plenty of youtube videos of racist or borderline racist and/or bigoted behavior for all to see. I am not posting that crap here.

Most politicians are polished enough to keep their thoughts in check when speaking, of course, there is this video from 2012s Tea Party Darling, Rick Santorum, which makes you wonder if it was an unfortunate slip of the tongue or ass juices' true thoughts for all the world to see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgrhJSAaYIc

Oh Ted Cruz, 2016 Tea Party darling and Santorum heir apparent, we are looking towards you to keep this tradition alive and well.

And in the interest of irony

https://theoligarchkings.files.wordp...am_2-thumb.jpg

BVS 04-22-2015 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobsaget77 (Post 7932836)
By the fact that Hillary has a more liberal past than Bill. Bill moved more towards the center in 1994 and was willing to be bipartisan. So I think of him as a moderate democrat. (By today's standards)
While Hillary is about as liberal as President Obama, Pelosi, Sanders, etc.


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Have you ever heard the phrase that you cannot use the very word when trying to define the word? There was a definition above, she doesn't actually fit in that "liberal" category, so I'm asking what definition? What stances, what past?


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Oregoropa 04-22-2015 08:00 PM

Bill governed as a Blue Dog in Arkansas. In the white house he signed DOMA. Worked with Newt on a balanced budget - surplus. Had the Blue Dog roots winning Southern States in 1992. He is essentially his own creature all together.


Hillary is a liberal democrat with a big crony capital tie into Wall Street money.

bobsaget77 04-22-2015 08:15 PM

US Presidential Election 2016...because it's never too early
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BVS (Post 7932841)
Have you ever heard the phrase that you cannot use the very word when trying to define the word? There was a definition above, she doesn't actually fit in that "liberal" category, so I'm asking what definition? What stances, what past?


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After doing some more research on this, I believe that Hillary is somewhere kinda in between. I guess she's not as liberal as Warren and Sanders in regards to issues like Israel and Social Security, so I'll admit I slightly overstated her liberalism.
However, she is still thoroughly liberal with issues like taxes and social issues. She is a strong proponent of pro-choice and gay marriage, while also advocating an increase in taxes, especially on higher income people.
I'm interested to see how and if her stances have changed since 2008. She'll be under significant scrutiny by her liberal base, so it'll be interesting to see if she cracks down to more liberalism this go around.

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nbelcik 04-22-2015 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregoropa (Post 7932789)
Yes I am asking for a specific example. Go right ahead Phils fan. (I like the Phillies too)


The entire birther movement qualifies as racist. Hmm, I wonder why they don't believe Obama is a "real American." There's something different about Obama that sets him apart from the other 43 presidents we've had. I just can't put my finger on it.


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Oregoropa 04-22-2015 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. Garrison (Post 7932838)
It is funny that they became a party not long after the first black president was elected. How many of them complained when Bush signed TARP into law? I don't remember any complaints then...it was only after the 2008 election and Obama took office.

There were many conservatives who were unhappy with the Government spending under Bush. They became aware and furious with TARP. The true seedlings of the Tea Party began with Rick Santelli's rant on the floor of the Chicago Merc Exchange about mortgage bailouts. The emergency stimulus and Auto bailouts added to the frustration of the newly formed Tea party.


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